[cma-l] RadioCentre unimpressed with community radio changes
Ian Hickling
transplanfm at hotmail.com
Fri Jan 23 16:06:21 GMT 2015
Aren't we relying here on the false concept of a finite advertising spend?The big selling point of CR is that it encourages additional levels of advertising that previously couldn't exist on an expense and span basis.
----------------------------------------------------
> Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2015 14:53:44 +0000
> From: lists at philedmonds.info
> To: cma-l at mailman.commedia.org.uk
> Subject: Re: [cma-l] RadioCentre unimpressed with community radio changes
>
> The Radio Centre's reply is totally expected. They represent a group of
> commercial businesses. Any change of legislation with a possible
> negative impact on the revenues of their members would obviously not be
> welcomed.
>
> If all 200 odd Community Radio stations went out and sold their extra
> £15k allowance then then whatever size of the commercial radio company I
> was I'd be at least taking notice that a third of a million of the
> sectors income being redirected to community radio.
>
> Now that's taking the view that this extra community radio income is
> coming from commercial radio's 'slice of the total advertising pie' and
> not from local press or on-line's 'slice'. There is also a case to be
> made that these extra community radio advertising sales may serve to
> increase the size of the pie, by bring on board small businesses who
> previously didn't make a media spend.
>
>
> At the end of the day it's all relative.
>
> Nick mentioned Tudno in Llandudno. What is their possible impact on the
> local small commercial radio station? Their local analogue commercial
> radio licence, formally "Marcher Coast", is now part of the shared North
> Wales 'Heart' which then changed to be a 'Capital' service.
>
> A breakdown of sales for each licence area is not public, but the
> accounts for 'Marcher Radio Group' in year ending 2012 report a turnover
> of 2.7 million. Llandudno Community Radio turnover at the same time was
> 29 thousand.
>
> In the intervening years Marcher Radio Group's turnover has increased to
> 3.4 million last financial year. The community radio group started
> filing abbreviated accounts, so I haven't got turnover figures for
> following years, but can assume that they have broadly remained the same
> in line with sector averages as reported by Ofcom.
>
> So for each community radio station in Marcher Radio Groups patch (I can
> think of at least four off the top of my head), under the new 15k rule
> could mean that they could loose up to 0.5% of their revenue per
> community station next year. But in the past two years they have
> actually increased their revenue by 25%. Having said that last year was
> the first year since 2005 that Marcher Radio Group didn't make a loss.
>
> I'd wager that Marcher Radio Group's renewed success will be down to
> being part of a big group and would be reasonable to assume having a
> "better" sales operation.
>
> Community radios impact in North Wales can only be extremely minor on
> the finances of commercial radio at this scale. I can't realistically
> see any North Wales community station being able to bring in hundreds of
> thousands of increased advertising sales, especially as it still needs
> to be 'match funded' to some degree.
>
> Is the impact likely to be more significant somewhere else in the case
> of a small independent standalone commercial radio service overlapping
> with a community station? That'll be one for another day to try and
> crunch some numbers.
>
> Phil.
>
>
>
>
> On 23/01/2015 11:09, James Cridland wrote:
> > You're not really comparing like with like. For the Global and Bauer's
> > of this world, they account for a large chunk of national advertising
> > and large regional advertising. Community radio isn't in this market.
> >
> > Small local commercial stations rely most heavily on smaller, local
> > advertisers. Where some have two or three community stations in their
> > patch, the prospect of potentially losing £35k of ad revenue a year is,
> > of course, going to be a concern.
> >
> > RadioCentre represents many different operators, not just Global and
> > Bauer. It is right to acknowledge that for some smaller independent
> > operators - many of which do not make appreciable profit - this change
> > will not be welcome.
> >
> >
> > On Fri, 23 Jan 2015 10:45 Den Packer <d.packer at csrfm.com
> > <mailto:d.packer at csrfm.com>> wrote:
> >
> > It would seem that way Cat. And even more of a reason to ignore them
> > when you read these stats from the link that Glyn posted.
> >
> > "Community radio currently has a 0.7% share of radio advertising in
> > the UK (source Ofcom Communications Market report 2014). If all CR
> > stations take 100% advantage of the new £15k advertising ability it
> > will increase to around 1.4% – hardly earth shattering."
> >
> > 'nuff said?
> >
> > Den
> > CSR FM
> >
> > *Dennison Packer | Media Co-ordinator | CSRfm
> > **Tel:***01227 816101 | *Website*: *www.csrfm.com
> > <http://www.csrfm.com> | *97.4 FM in Canterbury | @CSRfm
> > <http://www.twitter.com/csrfm>
> >
> >
> > On 22 January 2015 at 18:51, <cma-l-request at mailman.commedia.org.uk
> > <mailto:cma-l-request at mailman.commedia.org.uk>> wrote:
> >
> > Send cma-l mailing list submissions to
> > cma-l at mailman.commedia.org.uk <mailto:cma-l at mailman.commedia.org.uk>
> >
> > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> > http://mailman.commedia.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/cma-l
> > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> > cma-l-request at mailman.commedia.org.uk
> > <mailto:cma-l-request at mailman.commedia.org.uk>
> >
> > You can reach the person managing the list at
> > cma-l-owner at mailman.commedia.org.uk
> > <mailto:cma-l-owner at mailman.commedia.org.uk>
> >
> > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> > than "Re: Contents of cma-l digest..."
> >
> >
> > Today's Topics:
> >
> > 1. Re: RadioCentre unimpressed with community radio changes
> > (Cat Lake)
> > 2. Re: RadioCentre unimpressed with community radio changes
> > (Two Lochs Radio)
> > 3. Re: RadioCentre unimpressed with community radio changes
> > (Canalside's The Thread)
> >
> >
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 1
> > Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2015 18:35:09 +0000
> > From: Cat Lake <connect at catlake.uk <mailto:connect at catlake.uk>>
> > To: martin at martinsteers.co.uk
> > <mailto:martin at martinsteers.co.uk>, CMA-Mailing-List
> > <cma-l at mailman.commedia.org.uk
> > <mailto:cma-l at mailman.commedia.org.uk>>
> > Subject: Re: [cma-l] RadioCentre unimpressed with community radio
> > changes
> > Message-ID:
> >
> > <CAAERnb4dYhHtn7kwAV3sr9OMudzV8biCpTK0fD2Wfk-D2zxcSA at mail.gmail.com
> > <mailto:CAAERnb4dYhHtn7kwAV3sr9OMudzV8biCpTK0fD2Wfk-D2zxcSA at mail.gmail.com>>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> >
> > Just ignore this. It's not like we've gone from no advertising to
> > unlimited. We've been competing for local advertising for years
> > now. Stupid
> > people.
> >
> > Cat
> > On Jan 22, 2015 2:52 PM, "Martin Steers"
> > <martin at martinsteers.co.uk <mailto:martin at martinsteers.co.uk>>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Via Radio Today:
> > >
> > http://radiotoday.co.uk/2015/01/radiocentre-unimpressed-with-community-radio-changes/
> > >
> > > RadioCentre, the industry body for commercial radio, says
> > changes to the
> > > way community radio stations can fund themselves is a concern for
> > > commercial stations.
> > >
> > > The Government today said
> > >
> > <http://radiotoday.co.uk/2015/01/community-radio-order-updated/> the
> > > not-for-profit stations can now make the majority of its
> > income from
> > > advertising, rather than the previous 50% rule.
> > >
> > > Siobhan Kenny, Chief Executive of RadioCentre said: ?This is a
> > > disappointing outcome and will be a real cause for concern
> > for small
> > > commercial radio stations where margins are already squeezed.
> > >
> > > ?The changes proposed by the Department of Culture, Media and
> > Sport (DCMS)
> > > risk blurring the lines between community and commercial
> > stations and puts
> > > them in direct competition for limited local advertising,
> > alongside local
> > > press, local television and online.
> > >
> > > ?Community radio can perform a valuable complementary role to
> > commercial
> > > radio and the BBC, but it must offer something significantly
> > different to
> > > the communities it serves. Any changes must be accompanied by
> > a renewed
> > > emphasis on enforcement and compliance with the key
> > commitments of these
> > > stations.?
> > >
> > > The Government?s announcement follows a consultation carried
> > out by the
> > > DCMS launched in February 2013.
> > >
> > > More details on today?s changes can be found here
> > > <http://radiotoday.co.uk/2015/01/community-radio-order-updated/>.
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > >
> > > Reply - cma-l at commedia.org.uk <mailto:cma-l at commedia.org.uk>
> > >
> > > The cma-l mailing list is a members' service provided by the
> > Community
> > > Media Association - http://www.commedia.org.uk
> > > Twitter: http://twitter.com/community_media
> > > http://www.facebook.com/CommunityMediaAssociation
> > > Canstream Internet Radio & Video: http://www.canstream.co.uk/
> > > _______________________________________________
> > >
> > > Mailing list guidelines:
> > >
> > http://www.commedia.org.uk/about/cma-email-lists/email-list-guidelines/
> > > _______________________________________________
> > >
> > > To unsubscribe or manage your CMA-L mailing list subscription
> > please visit:
> > > http://mailman.commedia.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/cma-l
> > >
> > -------------- next part --------------
> > An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> > URL:
> > <http://mailman.commedia.org.uk/pipermail/cma-l/attachments/20150122/ee0fb98a/attachment.html>
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 2
> > Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2015 18:43:44 -0000
> > From: "Two Lochs Radio" <tlr at gairloch.co.uk
> > <mailto:tlr at gairloch.co.uk>>
> > To: "The Community Media Association Discussion List"
> > <cma-l at mailman.commedia.org.uk
> > <mailto:cma-l at mailman.commedia.org.uk>>
> > Subject: Re: [cma-l] RadioCentre unimpressed with community radio
> > changes
> > Message-ID: <F87C18B650A048FEA0BA4A100D30EEC0 at wwpc04>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> >
> > I agree that with a ?15,000 cap there is no serious threat from
> > community stations to most commercial stations, but I'm not sure
> > you're right regarding spot rates. Many very small commercial
> > stations charge ?4-12 per 30s spot. Is that an order of
> > magnitude higher than those CR stations that can sell commercial
> > time?
> >
> > I might have a distorted picture from the commercial/community
> > overlap that exists in Scotland, but I always had the impression
> > there was significant rate overlap in the ?5-10/spot region
> > between CR advertising rates (where available) and very small
> > commercial station ratecards.
> >
> > Alex
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Geoff Rogers
> > To: The Community Media Association Discussion List
> > Sent: Thursday, January 22, 2015 6:21 PM
> > Subject: Re: [cma-l] RadioCentre unimpressed with community
> > radio changes
> >
> >
> > Even the smallest commercial radio stations have advertising
> > rates an order of magnitude higher than many (most?) Community
> > Radio stations. (I work in both sectors so I think I have the
> > right to comment here.)
> >
> >
> > Therefore customers of Community Radio stations would be very
> > unlikely to take out advertising on the local commercial
> > station, so RadioCentre do not have a point here.
> >
> >
> > It's this kind of comment that further alienates commercial
> > radio operators while co-operation between the two, can and does
> > work.
> >
> >
> > These opinions are my own.
> > -------------- next part --------------
> > An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> > URL:
> > <http://mailman.commedia.org.uk/pipermail/cma-l/attachments/20150122/3c227e23/attachment.html>
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 3
> > Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2015 18:49:33 -0000
> > From: "Canalside's The Thread" <office at thethread.org.uk
> > <mailto:office at thethread.org.uk>>
> > To: "'The Community Media Association Discussion List'"
> > <cma-l at mailman.commedia.org.uk
> > <mailto:cma-l at mailman.commedia.org.uk>>
> > Subject: Re: [cma-l] RadioCentre unimpressed with community radio
> > changes
> > Message-ID:
> >
> > <!&!AAAAAAAAAAAYAAAAAAAAAJdWVmK8n0ZDnFrnt7yKPuLCgAAAEAAAAIoYk2n0xVNBmtTHf+krZdcBAAAAAA==@thethread.org.uk
> > <http://thethread.org.uk>>
> >
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> >
> > The middle bit is the key bit here SOMEONE IN THE
> > COMMERCIAL
> > SECTOR DOESN'T HAVE A POINT
> >
> >
> >
> > That has always been the point, my point, your point, the
> > Community Radio
> > point .. They don't have a point, never have and never will,
> > there is no
> > point.
> >
> >
> >
> > Finally, has no one ever thought that if the rules go and the
> > 50% even gets
> > wavered, we could reduce our prices right down on an individual
> > basis (which
> > we do anyway) and then business4es in the Community could run
> > with both
> > and it wouldn't cost that much more and then we would all be happy.
> >
> >
> >
> > I am desperately trying to walk away from this debate and weigh
> > up the
> > options . they ain't looking good at the minute. I can't walk
> > away because
> > I'm getting wound up again. I wanted to remain calm ....why are
> > words like
> > 'cop-out' 'hoodwinked' 'shafted' 'conned' 'bottled out'
> > springing to mind ?? something must be amiss
> >
> >
> >
> > I would like to receive an e-mail from someone / anyone who
> > thinks this is
> > brilliant ! I'm not going to argue or fall out as you are
> > entitled to your
> > opinion, and if you think that something has been gained (which
> > I'm not sure
> > if you add the others bits to the debate) it's just a bit of
> > a token
> > gesture.
> >
> >
> >
> > There's another one 'token gesture'
> >
> >
> >
> > Thoughts please ? obviously we have to be careful
> > here that we
> > don't undermine the efforts of Bill and Dom .. This is NOT a
> > criticism of
> > them, they have got out of this all that could be got out of it
> > as it is the
> > mindset at the top and the mindset in Government that has
> > swerved. Well it
> > hasn't, it was never on the straight and narrow from the outset.
> >
> > Number 6 deserves a pat on the back for everyone though .. and I
> > mean
> > everyone .they have moved well over half-way on that one.
> >
> >
> >
> > Nick
> >
> >
> >
> > _____
> >
> > From: cma-l-bounces at mailman.commedia.org.uk
> > <mailto:cma-l-bounces at mailman.commedia.org.uk>
> > [mailto:cma-l-bounces at mailman.commedia.org.uk
> > <mailto:cma-l-bounces at mailman.commedia.org.uk>] On Behalf Of
> > Geoff Rogers
> > Sent: 22 January 2015 18:22
> > To: The Community Media Association Discussion List
> > Subject: Re: [cma-l] RadioCentre unimpressed with community
> > radio changes
> >
> >
> >
> > Even the smallest commercial radio stations have advertising
> > rates an order
> > of magnitude higher than many (most?) Community Radio stations.
> > (I work in
> > both sectors so I think I have the right to comment here.)
> >
> >
> >
> > Therefore customers of Community Radio stations would be very
> > unlikely to
> > take out advertising on the local commercial station, so
> > RadioCentre do not
> > have a point here.
> >
> >
> >
> > It's this kind of comment that further alienates commercial
> > radio operators
> > while co-operation between the two, can and does work.
> >
> >
> >
> > These opinions are my own.
> >
> >
> >
> > On 22 January 2015 at 16:58, Alan Coote
> > <alan.coote at 5digital.co.uk <mailto:alan.coote at 5digital.co.uk>>
> > wrote:
> >
> > "[CR] must offer something significantly different to the
> > communities it
> > serves";
> >
> >
> >
> > True. I think many of my commercial radio friends would agree,
> > that's a bit
> > rich coming from the head of a sector which is better resourced
> > and funded
> > than CR, yet over the years has lacked innovation and all but
> > erased any
> > creativity.
> >
> >
> >
> > Just a thought.
> >
> >
> >
> > Alan
> >
> >
> >
> > From: cma-l-bounces at mailman.commedia.org.uk
> > <mailto:cma-l-bounces at mailman.commedia.org.uk>
> > [mailto:cma-l-bounces at mailman.commedia.org.uk
> > <mailto:cma-l-bounces at mailman.commedia.org.uk>] On Behalf Of
> > Martin Steers
> > Sent: 22 January 2015 14:46
> > To: CMA-Mailing-List
> > Subject: [cma-l] RadioCentre unimpressed with community radio
> > changes
> >
> >
> >
> > Via Radio Today:
> > http://radiotoday.co.uk/2015/01/radiocentre-unimpressed-with-community-radio
> > -changes/
> > <http://radiotoday.co.uk/2015/01/radiocentre-unimpressed-with-community-radio%0D-changes/>
> >
> >
> >
> > RadioCentre, the industry body for commercial radio, says
> > changes to the way
> > community radio stations can fund themselves is a concern for
> > commercial
> > stations.
> >
> > The Government today
> > <http://radiotoday.co.uk/2015/01/community-radio-order-updated/>
> > said the
> > not-for-profit stations can now make the majority of its income from
> > advertising, rather than the previous 50% rule.
> >
> > Siobhan Kenny, Chief Executive of RadioCentre said: "This is a
> > disappointing
> > outcome and will be a real cause for concern for small
> > commercial radio
> > stations where margins are already squeezed.
> >
> > "The changes proposed by the Department of Culture, Media and
> > Sport (DCMS)
> > risk blurring the lines between community and commercial
> > stations and puts
> > them in direct competition for limited local advertising,
> > alongside local
> > press, local television and online.
> >
> > "Community radio can perform a valuable complementary role to
> > commercial
> > radio and the BBC, but it must offer something significantly
> > different to
> > the communities it serves. Any changes must be accompanied by a
> > renewed
> > emphasis on enforcement and compliance with the key commitments
> > of these
> > stations."
> >
> > The Government's announcement follows a consultation carried out
> > by the DCMS
> > launched in February 2013.
> >
> > More details on today's changes can be found
> > <http://radiotoday.co.uk/2015/01/community-radio-order-updated/>
> > here.
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> >
> > Reply - cma-l at commedia.org.uk <mailto:cma-l at commedia.org.uk>
> >
> > The cma-l mailing list is a members' service provided by the
> > Community Media
> > Association - http://www.commedia.org.uk
> > Twitter: http://twitter.com/community_media
> > http://www.facebook.com/CommunityMediaAssociation
> > Canstream Internet Radio & Video: http://www.canstream.co.uk/
> > _______________________________________________
> >
> > Mailing list guidelines:
> > http://www.commedia.org.uk/about/cma-email-lists/email-list-guidelines/
> > _______________________________________________
> >
> > To unsubscribe or manage your CMA-L mailing list subscription
> > please visit:
> > http://mailman.commedia.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/cma-l
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> >
> > Geoff Rogers
> > Programme Director
> > Susy Radio, Local Community Radio for Redhill and Reigate
> > On-air across Sussex and Surrey on 103.4FM NOW
> > Web: susyradio.com <http://susyradio.com> <http://www.susyradio.com>
> >
> > Susy Radio Ltd. A company registered in England and Wales.
> > Registered Office: 54 Nutfield Road, Merstham, Redhill, Surrey,
> > RH1 3EP.
> > Registered Number: 06748586
> >
> >
> >
> > ---
> > This email is free from viruses and malware because avast!
> > Antivirus protection is active.
> > http://www.avast.com
> > -------------- next part --------------
> > An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> > URL:
> > <http://mailman.commedia.org.uk/pipermail/cma-l/attachments/20150122/8e5bd61d/attachment.html>
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> >
> > cma-l mailing list - cma-l at commedia.org.uk
> > <mailto:cma-l at commedia.org.uk>
> >
> > Community Media Association - http://www.commedia.org.uk
> > Twitter: http://twitter.com/community_media
> > http://www.facebook.com/CommunityMediaAssociation
> > Canstream Internet Radio & Video: http://www.canstream.co.uk/
> > _______________________________________________
> >
> > To unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription please
> > visit:
> > http://mailman.commedia.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/cma-l
> >
> > End of cma-l Digest, Vol 69, Issue 113
> > **************************************
> >
> >
> > _________________________________________________
> >
> > Reply - cma-l at commedia.org.uk <mailto:cma-l at commedia.org.uk>
> >
> > The cma-l mailing list is a members' service provided by the
> > Community Media Association - http://www.commedia.org.uk
> > Twitter: http://twitter.com/community___media
> > <http://twitter.com/community_media>
> > http://www.facebook.com/__CommunityMediaAssociation
> > <http://www.facebook.com/CommunityMediaAssociation>
> > Canstream Internet Radio & Video: http://www.canstream.co.uk/
> > _________________________________________________
> >
> > Mailing list guidelines:
> > http://www.commedia.org.uk/__about/cma-email-lists/email-__list-guidelines/
> > <http://www.commedia.org.uk/about/cma-email-lists/email-list-guidelines/>
> > _________________________________________________
> >
> > To unsubscribe or manage your CMA-L mailing list subscription please
> > visit:
> > http://mailman.commedia.org.__uk/mailman/listinfo/cma-l
> > <http://mailman.commedia.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/cma-l>
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> >
> > Reply - cma-l at commedia.org.uk
> >
> > The cma-l mailing list is a members' service provided by the Community Media Association - http://www.commedia.org.uk
> > Twitter: http://twitter.com/community_media
> > http://www.facebook.com/CommunityMediaAssociation
> > Canstream Internet Radio & Video: http://www.canstream.co.uk/
> > _______________________________________________
> >
> > Mailing list guidelines: http://www.commedia.org.uk/about/cma-email-lists/email-list-guidelines/
> > _______________________________________________
> >
> > To unsubscribe or manage your CMA-L mailing list subscription please visit:
> > http://mailman.commedia.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/cma-l
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> Reply - cma-l at commedia.org.uk
>
> The cma-l mailing list is a members' service provided by the Community Media Association - http://www.commedia.org.uk
> Twitter: http://twitter.com/community_media
> http://www.facebook.com/CommunityMediaAssociation
> Canstream Internet Radio & Video: http://www.canstream.co.uk/
> _______________________________________________
>
> Mailing list guidelines: http://www.commedia.org.uk/about/cma-email-lists/email-list-guidelines/
> _______________________________________________
>
> To unsubscribe or manage your CMA-L mailing list subscription please visit:
> http://mailman.commedia.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/cma-l
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mailman.commedia.org.uk/pipermail/cma-l/attachments/20150123/583ee2b3/attachment.html>
More information about the cma-l
mailing list