[cma-l] National Advertising
Office - ccr-fm
office at ccr-fm.co.uk
Wed May 4 11:43:14 BST 2011
Dear All
I want to engage everyone in a quick debate. It has been on my mind since
day dot and please forgive me as I am not trying to sidetrack the issue. I
believe it is indirectly related.
I am going to make a sweeping statement. We may get replies to that sweeping
statement, however, my opinion will NOT change. We know the answer at
Canalside as we have been at the ‘cutting edge’ of this statement.
If we are to run community radio in its skeleton, bare bones form
the
rajar / community colletion of figures / etc will have
NO bearing whatsoever on the advertising agency figures.
I still am confused to be honest as to ‘what exactly Community Radio is?’
even though we have been doing it since 2004.
Are we to make excellent radio and get into the boxing ring with commercial
radio and the BBC or are we to make ‘a few good programmes’ + ‘a few
mediocre ones’ and a sprinkling of dire ones
?? OR
just have a community free-for-all with every man and his dog, good, bad or
indifferent getting on the airwaves warts n’ all and ticking all the boxes.
You know what I mean
accesible to all, all things to all men / women
etc etc !
The point I am trying to make is that I don’t think any of us really know.
For example
we would have a damn site more listeners if we had an
extra 20 watts of power, we would have a damn site more money if we didn’t
have restrictions, we would also have a lot more listeners if we didn’t
allow 11 year olds to present programmes, or have lengthy political debate
(local politics) run regular programmes for the elderley, have local
showcases for local artists, run programmes for minority audiences
NARROWCASTING and not broadcasting !
This is what we are about and it mustn’t change, BUT we have to box
clever
. The reason why the local butcher advertises with us is
because
1) He can’t afford commercial radio prices
2) The BBC don’t permit advertising
3) The local papers are likewise quite expensive
4) He knows we don’t have a massive audience, but it is relative to
the price and it hits local people and possibly new customers
So
.. we have to be careful. This e-mail ping pong with Alex / Martin /
Phil n’all is all well and good (and I was of the people who first planted
the seed) but don’t get sucked somewhere we don’t want to be.
Well done to Phil and Martin and Alex
. Long may it continue, this is NOT
critcism
.. but if we are going to agencies and we are going to be
number crunching, then things will have to change on the airwaves.
Even sadly the mix n’ match approach doesn’t work
3 excellent hip,
groovy, fandabbydozy programmes followed by the local womens institute
talking about knitting for an hour isn’t going to number crunch
. You
lose the advertising agency number crunching idea
.. we are
having exactly the same debate at the moment with our Cheshire East Council.
‘’HOW MANY LISTENERS HAVE YOU GOT ! ?’’ if I hear that
again from anyone I’ll flippin’ well go bonkers
. It is actually
irrelevent as we do lots and lots and lots of other things to compensate
from not being in the commercial radio 25-45 cocoon !
I kinda’ don’t really know what I am trying to say, then again I do
.
If you understand what I mean, please explain it to me or just give me a
thumbs up to say you do.
It is all about the gal/guy who does the selling and NOT just the product
.. our product is not a Rolls Royce
.. it’s more of a Skoda Fabia,
with a potential of being an Octavia
.. certainly nothing more
..
sometimes though, we can be a clapped out mini metro or 90,000 mile fiat
panda
.
Lots of taxi firms use Octavias though and you see a lot on the road
the price is right for what you get ! if we are drifting into
the commercial minefield.
Does this make sense guys ?? possibly not
Regards
Nick
_____
From: cma-l-bounces at mailman.commedia.org.uk
[mailto:cma-l-bounces at mailman.commedia.org.uk] On Behalf Of Martin Steers
Sent: 01 May 2011 12:44
To: ROBERT TYLER
Cc: Phil Edmonds; cma-l at mailman.commedia.org.uk
Subject: Re: [cma-l] National Advertising
Havent had chance to reply (in process of moving! yay)
RAJAR should be considered but only considered. I still think that if we can
get a trusted community radio related survey that not only provided numbers
that can be used for advertising etc but also valuable data that the
stations can actually use for other items (programming, grants etc)
I know many different stations already commission or run their own data
collection, but is there common methodology or has it been independently
audited.. because if we can achieve that (or a low cost organisation thats
willing to do it.. and the surveys) then that would really help.. what a
national advertising organisation then does is raise awareness of this
survey and grow trust in that data for themselves and the rest of the
community radio sector.
There seems to be some interest.. I still think a national advertising
organisation is a viable opportunity.. and once i finish moving I might
start the ball rolling...
Martin
On Fri, Apr 29, 2011 at 9:03 PM, ROBERT TYLER <bobtyler at btinternet.com>
wrote:
Phil
RAJAR is not the ideal tool unless community radio becomes a brand, ie CR
Frome or CR Manchester 103.5fm. Then RAJAR could pick up the ‘brand’ id as
a sort of generic.
Guessing now but perhaps 4% of listening hours could bring in £1 – £2m with
very small cost of RAJAR and net agency commission.
My thoughts are that a ‘caring package’ or ‘ECO package’ is a better
direction, selling to advertisers that want to offset other spend for
whatever reason.
This has legs.
Bob
--- On Tue, 26/4/11, Phil Edmonds <lists at philedmonds.info> wrote:
From: Phil Edmonds <lists at philedmonds.info>
Subject: Re: [cma-l] National Advertising
To: cma-l at mailman.commedia.org.uk
Date: Tuesday, 26 April, 2011, 19:39
Again my personal views....
On 23/04/2011 20:56, ROBERT TYLER wrote:
> In any event, all of national advertising is sold based on RAJAR data,
> in other words, no RAJAR no interest.
Just pondering - in the last RAJAR figures, 'other listening' counts for
6% reach.
This 'other listening' consists of:
Non RAJAR subscribing stations - i.e. many Digital only, Community,
Student, Hospital and Pirate stations.
'Out of area' listening (i.e. if I ticked Liverpool's 'Radio City' as a
Manchester listener I'd be in 'other listening' as I'm outside their TSA).
Also RAJAR state that 25% of listening is via Digital Platforms.
Therefore you could argue that discounting 25% of the 6% of 'other
listening' - leaves us with Community Radio having 'the best part of' a
4% audience reach.
Of course some Community Radio listening is via Internet - which is
Digital in the RAJAR survey and there are many other non Community
'other' stations.
The biggest, of many, blows to the statistical validity of this 4%
figure is that there is not universal enough coverage of Community
Radio. We are all so different that if a respondent in Town A listens to
a Community Radio station, we can't justifiably assume that a similar
demographic non surveyed listener in Town B listens to their local
Community Radio station.
Even if you take a margin out of the 'other listening' for listeners to
non Rajar, non Community Radio, a 2% reach brings us in line with the
reach of BBC 6Music - but still this is pretty dodgy ground to claim
with any validity.. In any case in the commercial world there's only
Premier Christian Radio, Kissmat, Buzz Asia, Gold Devon and Yorkshire
Radio at such low reach figures (the first three being niche
broadcasters, the last digital only and we can only assume Oldies on AM
is not a mass market attraction in Devon.)
So depending on how you spin it 2% may or may not be that 'attractive' a
statistic.
However I believe the reach of Community Radio will be greater than this
- but a significant audience will only tune in for one or two specific
programmes.
The Rajar methodology will never work for this as the survey size is
just many a factor (I'd argue at least hundreds times) too small to
catch all these niche one or two hours a week listeners. BUT it is
perfectly "statistically valid" to "gauge" the audience of large
mainstream radio stations.
Anyway this is some food for thought - I'm sure some Rajar gurus might
be able to pull apart some of this argument as I don't claim to be any
expert!
Phil.
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