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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Dear All<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>I want to engage everyone in a quick
debate. It has been on my mind since day dot and please forgive me as I am not
trying to sidetrack the issue. I believe it is indirectly related.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>I am going to make a sweeping statement.
We may get replies to that sweeping statement, however, my opinion will NOT
change. We know the answer at Canalside as we have been at the ‘cutting
edge’ of this statement.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>If we are to run community radio in its
skeleton, bare bones form ………… the rajar / community colletion
of figures / etc will have NO bearing whatsoever on the
advertising agency figures.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>I still am confused to be honest as to ‘what
exactly Community Radio is?’ even though we have been doing it since
2004.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Are we to make excellent radio and get
into the boxing ring with commercial radio and the BBC or are we to make ‘a
few good programmes’ + ‘a few mediocre ones’ and a sprinkling
of dire ones ……??
OR just have a community free-for-all with every man
and his dog, good, bad or indifferent getting on the airwaves warts n’
all and ticking all the boxes. You know what I mean …………
accesible to all, all things to all men / women etc etc !<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>The point I am trying to make is that I
don’t think any of us really know.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>For example …………………
we would have a damn site more listeners if we had an extra 20 watts of power,
we would have a damn site more money if we didn’t have restrictions, we
would also have a lot more listeners if we didn’t allow 11 year olds to
present programmes, or have lengthy political debate (local politics) run regular
programmes for the elderley, have local showcases for local artists, run
programmes for minority audiences …………………
NARROWCASTING and not broadcasting !<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>This is what we are about and it mustn’t
change, BUT we have to box clever …………………….
The reason why the local butcher advertises with us is because<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:36.0pt;text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'><![if !supportLists]><font
size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:navy'><span style='mso-list:Ignore'>1)<font size=1 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'> </span></font></span></span></font><![endif]><font
size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:navy'>He can’t afford commercial radio prices<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:36.0pt;text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'><![if !supportLists]><font
size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:navy'><span style='mso-list:Ignore'>2)<font size=1 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'> </span></font></span></span></font><![endif]><font
size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:navy'>The BBC don’t permit advertising<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:36.0pt;text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'><![if !supportLists]><font
size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:navy'><span style='mso-list:Ignore'>3)<font size=1 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'> </span></font></span></span></font><![endif]><font
size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:navy'>The local papers are likewise quite expensive<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:36.0pt;text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'><![if !supportLists]><font
size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:navy'><span style='mso-list:Ignore'>4)<font size=1 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'> </span></font></span></span></font><![endif]><font
size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:navy'>He knows we don’t have a massive audience, but it is relative
to the price and it hits local people and possibly new customers<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>So ………….. we have
to be careful. This e-mail ping pong with Alex / Martin / Phil n’all is
all well and good (and I was of the people who first planted the seed) but don’t
get sucked somewhere we don’t want to be.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Well done to Phil and Martin and Alex …….
Long may it continue, this is NOT critcism ……………..
but if we are going to agencies and we are going to be number crunching, then
things will have to change on the airwaves.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Even sadly the mix n’ match approach
doesn’t work ……………… 3 excellent hip,
groovy, fandabbydozy programmes followed by the local womens institute talking
about knitting for an hour isn’t going to number crunch ……….
You lose the advertising agency number crunching idea ………………………..
we are having exactly the same debate at the moment with our Cheshire East
Council.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>‘’HOW MANY LISTENERS HAVE YOU
GOT ! ?’’ if I hear that again from anyone I’ll
flippin’ well go bonkers …………. It is actually
irrelevent as we do lots and lots and lots of other things to compensate from
not being in the commercial radio 25-45 cocoon !<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>I kinda’ don’t really know
what I am trying to say, then again I do ……………….
If you understand what I mean, please explain it to me or just give me a thumbs
up to say you do.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>It is all about the gal/guy who does the
selling and NOT just the product ………………..
our product is not a Rolls Royce ……….. it’s more of a
Skoda Fabia, with a potential of being an Octavia …….. certainly
nothing more ……….. sometimes though, we can be a clapped out
mini metro or 90,000 mile fiat panda …….<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Lots of taxi firms use Octavias though and
you see a lot on the road ………………………
the price is right for what you get ! if we are drifting into the commercial
minefield.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Does this make sense guys ?? possibly
not<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Regards<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Nick<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><font size=3
face="Times New Roman"><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt'>
<hr size=2 width="100%" align=center tabindex=-1>
</span></font></div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span lang=EN-US
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font
size=2 face=Tahoma><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>
cma-l-bounces@mailman.commedia.org.uk
[mailto:cma-l-bounces@mailman.commedia.org.uk] <b><span style='font-weight:
bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>Martin Steers<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> 01 May 2011 12:44<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> ROBERT TYLER<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Cc:</span></b> Phil Edmonds; cma-l@mailman.commedia.org.uk<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [cma-l] National
Advertising</span></font><span lang=EN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>Havent had chance to reply (in process of moving! yay)<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>RAJAR should be considered but only considered. I still think that if
we can get a trusted community radio related survey that not only provided
numbers that can be used for advertising etc but also valuable data
that the stations can actually use for other items (programming, grants etc)<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>I know many different stations already commission or run their own data
collection, but is there common methodology or has it
been independently audited.. because if we can achieve that (or a low
cost organisation thats willing to do it.. and the surveys) then that would
really help.. what a national advertising organisation then does is raise
awareness of this survey and grow trust in that data for themselves and the
rest of the community radio sector.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>There seems to be some interest.. I still think a national advertising
organisation is a viable opportunity.. and once i finish moving I might start
the ball rolling...<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>Martin<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>On Fri, Apr 29, 2011 at 9:03 PM, ROBERT TYLER <<a
href="mailto:bobtyler@btinternet.com">bobtyler@btinternet.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<table class=MsoNormalTable border=0 cellspacing=0 cellpadding=0>
<tr>
<td valign=top style='padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 0cm'>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>Phil<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>RAJAR is not the
ideal tool unless community radio becomes a brand, ie CR Frome or CR
Manchester 103.5fm. Then RAJAR could pick up the ‘brand’ id
as a sort of generic.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>Guessing now but
perhaps 4% of listening hours could bring in £1 – £2m with very small
cost of RAJAR and net agency commission.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>My thoughts are
that a ‘caring package’ or ‘ECO package’ is a better
direction, selling to advertisers that want to offset other spend for
whatever reason.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>This has legs.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>Bob<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'><br>
<br>
--- On <b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Tue, 26/4/11, Phil Edmonds <i><span
style='font-style:italic'><<a href="mailto:lists@philedmonds.info"
target="_blank">lists@philedmonds.info</a>></span></i></span></b> wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'><br>
From: Phil Edmonds <<a href="mailto:lists@philedmonds.info" target="_blank">lists@philedmonds.info</a>><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'><br>
Subject: Re: [cma-l] National Advertising<br>
To: <a href="mailto:cma-l@mailman.commedia.org.uk" target="_blank">cma-l@mailman.commedia.org.uk</a><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>Date: Tuesday, 26 April, 2011, 19:39<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font size=3
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>Again my personal views....<br>
<br>
On 23/04/2011 20:56, ROBERT TYLER wrote:<br>
> In any event, all of national advertising is sold based on RAJAR data,<br>
> in other words, no RAJAR no interest.<br>
<br>
Just pondering - in the last RAJAR figures, 'other listening' counts for <br>
6% reach.<br>
<br>
This 'other listening' consists of:<br>
<br>
Non RAJAR subscribing stations - i.e. many Digital only, Community, <br>
Student, Hospital and Pirate stations.<br>
'Out of area' listening (i.e. if I ticked Liverpool's '<st1:PlaceName w:st="on">Radio</st1:PlaceName>
<st1:PlaceType w:st="on">City</st1:PlaceType>' as a <br>
<st1:City w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Manchester</st1:place></st1:City>
listener I'd be in 'other listening' as I'm outside their TSA).<br>
<br>
<br>
Also RAJAR state that 25% of listening is via Digital Platforms.<br>
<br>
Therefore you could argue that discounting 25% of the 6% of 'other <br>
listening' - leaves us with Community Radio having 'the best part of' a <br>
4% audience reach.<br>
<br>
Of course some Community Radio listening is via Internet - which is <br>
Digital in the RAJAR survey and there are many other non Community <br>
'other' stations.<br>
<br>
<br>
The biggest, of many, blows to the statistical validity of this 4% <br>
figure is that there is not universal enough coverage of Community <br>
Radio. We are all so different that if a respondent in Town A listens to <br>
a Community Radio station, we can't justifiably assume that a similar <br>
demographic non surveyed listener in Town B listens to their local <br>
Community Radio station.<br>
<br>
Even if you take a margin out of the 'other listening' for listeners to <br>
non Rajar, non Community Radio, a 2% reach brings us in line with the <br>
reach of BBC 6Music - but still this is pretty dodgy ground to claim <br>
with any validity.. In any case in the commercial world there's only <br>
Premier Christian Radio, Kissmat, Buzz Asia, Gold Devon and Yorkshire <br>
Radio at such low reach figures (the first three being niche <br>
broadcasters, the last digital only and we can only assume Oldies on AM <br>
is not a mass market attraction in Devon.)<br>
<br>
So depending on how you spin it 2% may or may not be that 'attractive' a <br>
statistic.<br>
<br>
However I believe the reach of Community Radio will be greater than this <br>
- but a significant audience will only tune in for one or two specific <br>
programmes.<br>
<br>
The Rajar methodology will never work for this as the survey size is <br>
just many a factor (I'd argue at least hundreds times) too small to <br>
catch all these niche one or two hours a week listeners. BUT it is <br>
perfectly "statistically valid" to "gauge" the audience
of large <br>
mainstream radio stations.<br>
<br>
<br>
Anyway this is some food for thought - I'm sure some Rajar gurus might <br>
be able to pull apart some of this argument as I don't claim to be any <br>
expert!<br>
<br>
Phil.<br>
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