[cma-l] The proverbial pudding
Canalside's The Thread
office at thethread.org.uk
Fri Mar 24 14:04:56 GMT 2017
It just shows what a wonderful and lovely bunch of folk we are here in
Community Radio Land
. We have had a Thread (pardon the pun) going back
and forth entitled ‘’’Pudding’’’ and I have received lots and lots
of e-mails
Keep up the good work everyone
. Now I’m off to do some
work
Nick
From: Ian Hickling [mailto:transplanfm at hotmail.com]
Sent: 24 March 2017 13:54
To: The Community Media Association Discussion List
<cma-l at mailman.commedia.org.uk>; martin at martinsteers.co.uk;
tlr at gairloch.co.uk; info at a-bc.co.uk; alan.coote at 5digital.co.uk;
t.beale at tonefm.co.uk; admin at edenfm.co.uk; office at thethread.org.uk
Subject: The proverbial pudding
Can I put forward the suggestion I made yesterday elsewhere?
Rather than continue to scratch around for something that doesn't exist -
why not look at the problem from a different perspective?
Any good Sales Trainer will explain how to deal with an awkward question
from a Prospect.
In response to the inevitable question:
"How many listeners have you got?"
- rather than try to explain that you don't know - and there is no reliable
way of finding out - try asking him a question:
"How many new customers do you need every week?"
- and take it from there.
The whole point of a successful selling process is to get the Prospect to
provide a need that you can satisfy.
Ian Hickling
Partner
<http://www.transplanuk.com/>
Office: 016 3557 8435 (07h to 22h GTS)
Car: 075 3098 0115 (only responds when driving)
6 Horn Street, Compton, NEWBURY, RG20 6QS
_____
From: <mailto:cma-l-bounces at mailman.commedia.org.uk>
cma-l-bounces at mailman.commedia.org.uk <
<mailto:cma-l-bounces at mailman.commedia.org.uk>
cma-l-bounces at mailman.commedia.org.uk> on behalf of Martin Steers <
<mailto:martin at martinsteers.co.uk> martin at martinsteers.co.uk>
Sent: 24 March 2017 13:21
To: The Community Media Association Discussion List
Subject: Re: [cma-l] FW: the pudding
I completely agree that the quality and engagement of the audience is where
CR stations can win, this is the argument I have used several times when
talking about coverage and listenership.
In terms of surveys you have to be cautious about how you do your own, there
have been Ofcom breaches based of stations reporting their own surveys
conducted by their own volunteers etc.
I believe the Radio Response team did put together a robust methodology of
street surveys that I think had real promise, and it is a shame that the
radio fund pot wasnt large enough to accomodate their trial.
I believe a robust methodology that holds up well to scrutiny that could be
adopted and utilised across the country could not only produce numbers that
local stations can use, but also a national picture that can be presented
to national brands and organisations.
Thats assuming we are happy with the numbers it produces, and shows people
really are listening.
If you want other methodologies and approaches I was inspired a few years
ago with Andy from Bay with his "carjar" which I believe involving asking
one or two local garages to survey what radio stations the local cars and
tuned to when they are brought in.
On 24 March 2017 at 12:58, < <mailto:tlr at gairloch.co.uk> tlr at gairloch.co.uk>
wrote:
Absolutely Glynn, that is a key point.
Any community station whose area is also served by a mainstream commercial
station is likely to have a hard time winning any argument based on numbers,
but can focus on its reach with a different demographic.
This was in part the argument that won us regular Scottish Government
advertising bookings, and the same arguments should apply to UK government
spend.
Rather than spending large amounts on RAJAR or commissioning wide scale
research, I would suggest that stations do as we do, which is commission
their own local surveys from time to time (even if only every few years),
with a combination of survey forms through letterboxes, people with
clipboards on streetcorners, and online surveys. These can be used as good
evidence of local reach, and also identify more demographic details, and
relatively low cost, especially if you have volunteers willing to act as
foot soldiers in getting the research done.
Alex
On 24 March 2017 at 11:45 Associated Broadcast Consultants <
<mailto:info at a-bc.co.uk> info at a-bc.co.uk> wrote:
I'm not an expert, but in addition to pure numbers, I think many CR stations
can argue that they have better reach into "hard to reach" groups. As such
they "should" punch above their weight for national or local Government
advertising - not that it happens!
Glyn
On 24 March 2017 at 09:48, Alan Coote < <mailto:alan.coote at 5digital.co.uk>
alan.coote at 5digital.co.uk> wrote:
Bill et al,
I’ve been giving this some thought and have exchanged a couple of emails
with James off list.
As Let’s Talk Business is one of the larger syndicate shows we need to track
our audience across around 100 stations. By the nature of community radio,
all traditional mechanisms are a non-starter.
For the purposes of working out a national audience, we get close enough
The average MCA of a community station is around 35,000 people whereas the
average MCA for a commercial station (excluding London FM) is 700,000 = 20
times greater. This means even exceptionally engaged individual community
stations with a high share won’t increase a campaigns exposure as much as a
moderate commercial station.
We also accept that in most areas the community station will not be the
first choice, so their share will be less than the best one or two
commercial stations in their market.
This means we use an 8% - 15% reach for established community stations. We
often don’t include audience figures for stations who have only been on-air
under a year.
We know that commercial stations TSAs are between 20% – 40% higher than
their MCA as both are published. And as Ofcom have also published community
stations MCA’s, we can derive a proxy TSA for each community station.
We make further adjustments for other factors but these add rigour to the
estimation and often become lost in a rounding error.
Finally, when we launch our new show shortly we’ll have an improved system
able to give daily daypart estimations. Which absolutely no one has asked
for! :)
Kind Regards
Alan
Alan Coote
Email - <mailto:alan.coote at 5digital.co.uk> alan.coote at MonogramMedia.co.uk
Phone - 0800 949 6655
Mobile - 07801 518858
Twitter - <http://www.twitter.com/TheAlanCoote> @TheAlanCoote
Twitter - <http://www.twitter.com/TheAlanCoote> @LTBShow
Web - <http://www.5digital.co.uk/> http://www.LetsTalkBusinessOnline.com
From: < <mailto:cma-l-bounces at mailman.commedia.org.uk>
cma-l-bounces at mailman.commedia.org.uk> on behalf of "
<mailto:bill.best at commedia.org.uk> bill.best at commedia.org.uk" <
<mailto:bill.best at commedia.org.uk> bill.best at commedia.org.uk>
Reply-To: " <mailto:cma-l at mailman.commedia.org.uk>
cma-l at mailman.commedia.org.uk" < <mailto:cma-l at mailman.commedia.org.uk>
cma-l at mailman.commedia.org.uk>
Date: Thursday, 23 March 2017 at 14:49
To: " <mailto:cma-l at mailman.commedia.org.uk> cma-l at mailman.commedia.org.uk"
< <mailto:cma-l at mailman.commedia.org.uk> cma-l at mailman.commedia.org.uk>
Subject: Re: [cma-l] FW: the pudding
Thanks Glyn.
The CMA is looking into the data / statistical solution that has previously
been given some exposure.
Best regards
Bill
--
Operations Manager
Community Media Association
<http://www.commedia.org.uk> http://www.commedia.org.uk
<https://twitter.com/community_media> https://twitter.com/community_media
<https://facebook.com/CommunityMediaAssociation>
https://facebook.com/CommunityMediaAssociation
Canstream Internet Radio
<http://www.canstream.co.uk> http://www.canstream.co.uk
<https://twitter.com/canstream> https://twitter.com/canstream
On 23 March 2017 at 14:30, Associated Broadcast Consultants <
<mailto:info at a-bc.co.uk> info at a-bc.co.uk> wrote:
I think another problem is that Murphy's law applies here.
Because CR audiences are smaller (no one knows for certain, but let's assume
so!), that means they need a larger sample size to get a statistically
significant answer for CR than for larger stations.
Thus we are in a situation where something costs much more to deliver, yet
we want it for less/free.
Not sure of the solution to that dilemma apart from to "work smarter" - eg:
the James Cridland/Media UK solution using Tunin stats etc. If James is not
able/willing to host and lobby for that solution, maybe another suitable
independent organisation could do it?
https:// <http://media.info/> media.info/uk/radio/data/rajar-vs-tunein
Glyn
On 23 March 2017 at 14:08, Martin Steers <
<mailto:martin at martinsteers.co.uk> martin at martinsteers.co.uk> wrote:
I do have a question as to who should pay?
If you were presented an option to pay say £1,000 but get this survey data
that in the right hands could bring in 10 times that as income surely that
would be seen as a good investment?
Martin
On 23 March 2017 at 13:11, Terry Beale < <mailto:t.beale at tonefm.co.uk>
t.beale at tonefm.co.uk> wrote:
I would echo the sentiments. As a not for profit station we can't afford to
pay for this and we are always being asked the question.
CR stations need support we do a valuable job!!
Terry Beale
On Thu, 23 Mar 2017 at 10:33, Eden FM Radio < <mailto:admin at edenfm.co.uk>
admin at edenfm.co.uk> wrote:
I found that email mildly insulting.
The most popular question we are asked when trying to sell advertising or
apply for a grant, is "how many people listen".
We would LOVE to be able to say ". . . community radio formal research shows
. . . " it would make our life in the frozen north-west of England easier.
No national advertiser is going to put money in to community radio without
some acceptable industry standard research.
Not every station would want to take national advertising or, in some cases,
any advertising at all and we all respect that I hope. Eden FM, however,
would be happy to receive some income from this source.
It was disappointing that Ofcom felt unable to support the application to
fund some industry standard research and I hope that somehow there can be a
resolution.
Cheers.
-Nigel-
Eden FM Radio Ltd
Office : 01786 899 101
Studio: 01768 899 107
Web: <http://www.edenfm.co.uk> www.edenfm.co.uk
Twitter: @EdenFmRadio
Facebook : @edenfmonline
Mostyn Hall, Friargate, Penrith CA11 7XP
----- Original Message -----
From: <mailto:office at thethread.org.uk> Canalside's The Thread
To: <mailto:cma-l at mailman.commedia.org.uk> 'The Community Media Association
Discussion List'
Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2017 5:21 PM
Subject: [cma-l] FW: the pudding
From: Canalside Community Radio Ltd [mailto:
<mailto:office at canalsideradio.net> office at canalsideradio.net]
Sent: 22 March 2017 17:19
To: 'Canalside's The Thread' < <mailto:office at thethread.org.uk>
office at thethread.org.uk>
Subject: FW: the pudding
Dear All
This came through today from Radio Response
we’re giving it a go here at
Canalside I have to say though we are our own worst enemy. People
are bending over backwards to help us, why are we not ALL running these to
give ourselves a fighting chance ? the sooner we start operating
as a ‘collective’ fraternity the better it will be for everyone. Surely even
the ‘I’m alright Jacks’ could do the decent thing and try help the ones who
are having a bit of a tough time ??? maybe I’m going soft in my old
age ?
____________________________________________________________________________
_________________________________________________________________________
AUDIENCE RESEARCH
As most of you will know by now, unfortunately, OFCOM did not grant the
funds for our Somer Valley FM led bid to provide audience research to a
consortium of 20 stations. The funding pot this time round totalled £200,000
and whilst our bid was well received the committee did not feel it could
justify the allocation of 20% of the fund to one bid. We are looking for
alternative funding opportunities and will keep you posted on developments.
____________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Which Pot of funding is this ? and why do we need audience research again ?
is this yet another consultation dressed up with a different wording ?
Surely, once you launch something like this you are then in the Commercial
Zone. The proof of the Pudding is in the eating isn’t it ? WE (as a
collective body) either get ready for a fall and Radio Response change
their name to Radio No Response or we hit the jackpot and the results come
flooding in. The three trial Advertisers then write ‘’’testimonials’’’ for
the Sales people to pitch at the next target. I personally think a fair to
middling response would be good enough for us. Correct me if I am wrong but
fair to middling from 250 Stations is rather good National Advertising isn’t
it ?
However, as I have pointed out many times before, we have to be careful that
we don’t go drifting off into NoddyLand
there is no guarantee that if we
were on Rajar that the figures would make good reading ----- if this was the
case then surely on a National Scheme we’d be going backwards wouldn’t we?
So best stick with Herbert Muggins the Candlestick Maker in the Village.
Then again (REMAINING POSITIVE) the figures could prove very promising
and exciting
. I am already stripped down to my undies in anticipation,
and ready to take the big splash plunge into the Canal
Yippeeeee
Onwards and Upwards / Monkeeeee Magic
I’m sure the team will keep us posted
Nicholas H Dumpty / Sales Co-Ordinator & Chief Cashier
ka-ching ***
Error! Filename not specified.
Canalside Community Radio Ltd.
Canal 2B,
Clarence Mill,
Bollington,
Cheshire,
SK10 5JZ
01625 576689
<mailto:office at canalsideradio.net> office at canalsideradio.net
<http://www.canalsideradio.net/> www.canalsideradio.net
Error! Filename not specified.
<http://www.twitter.com/canalsideradio> www.twitter.com/canalsideradio
<http://www.facebook.com/canalsideradio> www.facebook.com/canalsideradio
_____
_______________________________________________
Reply - <mailto:cma-l at commedia.org.uk> cma-l at commedia.org.uk
The cma-l mailing list is a members' service provided by the Community Media
Association - <http://www.commedia.org.uk> http://www.commedia.org.uk
Twitter: <http://twitter.com/community_media>
http://twitter.com/community_media
<http://www.facebook.com/CommunityMediaAssociation>
http://www.facebook.com/CommunityMediaAssociation
Canstream Internet Radio & Video: <http://www.canstream.co.uk/>
http://www.canstream.co.uk/
_______________________________________________
Mailing list guidelines:
<http://www.commedia.org.uk/about/cma-email-lists/email-list-guidelines/>
http://www.commedia.org.uk/about/cma-email-lists/email-list-guidelines/
_______________________________________________
To unsubscribe or manage your CMA-L mailing list subscription please visit:
<http://mailman.commedia.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/cma-l>
http://mailman.commedia.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/cma-l
_______________________________________________
Reply - <mailto:cma-l at commedia.org.uk> cma-l at commedia.org.uk
The cma-l mailing list is a members' service provided by the Community Media
Association - <http://www.commedia.org.uk> http://www.commedia.org.uk
Twitter: <http://twitter.com/community_media>
http://twitter.com/community_media
<http://www.facebook.com/CommunityMediaAssociation>
http://www.facebook.com/CommunityMediaAssociation
Canstream Internet Radio & Video: <http://www.canstream.co.uk/>
http://www.canstream.co.uk/
_______________________________________________
Mailing list guidelines:
<http://www.commedia.org.uk/about/cma-email-lists/email-list-guidelines/>
http://www.commedia.org.uk/about/cma-email-lists/email-list-guidelines/
_______________________________________________
To unsubscribe or manage your CMA-L mailing list subscription please visit:
<http://mailman.commedia.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/cma-l>
http://mailman.commedia.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/cma-l
--
Terry Beale
Presenter
W: <http://www.tonefm.co.uk> www.tonefm.co.uk
F: <http://www.facebook.com/tonefm> www.facebook.com/tonefm
T: <http://www.twitter.com/tauntonstonefm> www.twitter.com/tauntonstonefm
Tauntons 107.8 Tone FM is on now on air in Somerset’s County Town!
Please Note: Tone FM is a 'Not for Profit' Community Radio Station which is
run by volunteers so we may not respond to your email straight away so
please be patient with us.
_______________________________________________
Reply - <mailto:cma-l at commedia.org.uk> cma-l at commedia.org.uk
The cma-l mailing list is a members' service provided by the Community Media
Association - <http://www.commedia.org.uk> http://www.commedia.org.uk
Twitter: <http://twitter.com/community_media>
http://twitter.com/community_media
<http://www.facebook.com/CommunityMediaAssociation>
http://www.facebook.com/CommunityMediaAssociation
Canstream Internet Radio & Video: <http://www.canstream.co.uk/>
http://www.canstream.co.uk/
_______________________________________________
Mailing list guidelines:
<http://www.commedia.org.uk/about/cma-email-lists/email-list-guidelines/>
http://www.commedia.org.uk/about/cma-email-lists/email-list-guidelines/
_______________________________________________
To unsubscribe or manage your CMA-L mailing list subscription please visit:
<http://mailman.commedia.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/cma-l>
http://mailman.commedia.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/cma-l
_______________________________________________
Reply - <mailto:cma-l at commedia.org.uk> cma-l at commedia.org.uk
The cma-l mailing list is a members' service provided by the Community Media
Association - <http://www.commedia.org.uk> http://www.commedia.org.uk
Twitter: <http://twitter.com/community_media>
http://twitter.com/community_media
<http://www.facebook.com/CommunityMediaAssociation>
http://www.facebook.com/CommunityMediaAssociation
Canstream Internet Radio & Video: <http://www.canstream.co.uk/>
http://www.canstream.co.uk/
_______________________________________________
Mailing list guidelines:
<http://www.commedia.org.uk/about/cma-email-lists/email-list-guidelines/>
http://www.commedia.org.uk/about/cma-email-lists/email-list-guidelines/
_______________________________________________
To unsubscribe or manage your CMA-L mailing list subscription please visit:
<http://mailman.commedia.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/cma-l>
http://mailman.commedia.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/cma-l
--
Glyn Roylance - Principal Consultant
<http://www.a-bc.co.uk/> Associated Broadcast Consultants
_______________________________________________
Reply - <mailto:cma-l at commedia.org.uk> cma-l at commedia.org.uk
The cma-l mailing list is a members' service provided by the Community Media
Association - <http://www.commedia.org.uk> http://www.commedia.org.uk
Twitter: <http://twitter.com/community_media>
http://twitter.com/community_media
<http://www.facebook.com/CommunityMediaAssociation>
http://www.facebook.com/CommunityMediaAssociation
Canstream Internet Radio & Video: <http://www.canstream.co.uk/>
http://www.canstream.co.uk/
_______________________________________________
Mailing list guidelines:
<http://www.commedia.org.uk/about/cma-email-lists/email-list-guidelines/>
http://www.commedia.org.uk/about/cma-email-lists/email-list-guidelines/
_______________________________________________
To unsubscribe or manage your CMA-L mailing list subscription please visit:
<http://mailman.commedia.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/cma-l>
http://mailman.commedia.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/cma-l
_______________________________________________ Reply -
<mailto:cma-l at commedia.org.uk> cma-l at commedia.org.uk The cma-l mailing list
is a members' service provided by the Community Media Association -
<http://www.commedia.org.uk> http://www.commedia.org.uk Twitter:
<http://twitter.com/community_media> http://twitter.com/community_media
<http://www.facebook.com/CommunityMediaAssociation>
http://www.facebook.com/CommunityMediaAssociation Canstream Internet Radio &
Video: <http://www.canstream.co.uk/> http://www.canstream.co.uk/
_______________________________________________ Mailing list guidelines:
<http://www.commedia.org.uk/about/cma-email-lists/email-list-guidelines/>
http://www.commedia.org.uk/about/cma-email-lists/email-list-guidelines/
_______________________________________________ To unsubscribe or manage
your CMA-L mailing list subscription please visit:
<http://mailman.commedia.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/cma-l>
http://mailman.commedia.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/cma-l
_______________________________________________
Reply - <mailto:cma-l at commedia.org.uk> cma-l at commedia.org.uk
The cma-l mailing list is a members' service provided by the Community Media
Association - <http://www.commedia.org.uk> http://www.commedia.org.uk
Twitter: <http://twitter.com/community_media>
http://twitter.com/community_media
<http://www.facebook.com/CommunityMediaAssociation>
http://www.facebook.com/CommunityMediaAssociation
Canstream Internet Radio & Video: <http://www.canstream.co.uk/>
http://www.canstream.co.uk/
_______________________________________________
Mailing list guidelines:
<http://www.commedia.org.uk/about/cma-email-lists/email-list-guidelines/>
http://www.commedia.org.uk/about/cma-email-lists/email-list-guidelines/
_______________________________________________
To unsubscribe or manage your CMA-L mailing list subscription please visit:
<http://mailman.commedia.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/cma-l>
http://mailman.commedia.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/cma-l
--
Glyn Roylance - Principal Consultant
<http://www.a-bc.co.uk/> Associated Broadcast Consultants
_______________________________________________
Reply - <mailto:cma-l at commedia.org.uk> cma-l at commedia.org.uk
The cma-l mailing list is a members' service provided by the Community Media
Association - <http://www.commedia.org.uk> http://www.commedia.org.uk
Twitter: <http://twitter.com/community_media>
http://twitter.com/community_media
<http://www.facebook.com/CommunityMediaAssociation>
http://www.facebook.com/CommunityMediaAssociation
Canstream Internet Radio & Video: <http://www.canstream.co.uk/>
http://www.canstream.co.uk/
_______________________________________________
Mailing list guidelines:
<http://www.commedia.org.uk/about/cma-email-lists/email-list-guidelines/>
http://www.commedia.org.uk/about/cma-email-lists/email-list-guidelines/
_______________________________________________
To unsubscribe or manage your CMA-L mailing list subscription please visit:
<http://mailman.commedia.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/cma-l>
http://mailman.commedia.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/cma-l
_______________________________________________
Reply - <mailto:cma-l at commedia.org.uk> cma-l at commedia.org.uk
The cma-l mailing list is a members' service provided by the Community Media
Association - <http://www.commedia.org.uk> http://www.commedia.org.uk
Twitter: <http://twitter.com/community_media>
http://twitter.com/community_media
<http://www.facebook.com/CommunityMediaAssociation>
http://www.facebook.com/CommunityMediaAssociation
Canstream Internet Radio & Video: <http://www.canstream.co.uk/>
http://www.canstream.co.uk/
_______________________________________________
Mailing list guidelines:
<http://www.commedia.org.uk/about/cma-email-lists/email-list-guidelines/>
http://www.commedia.org.uk/about/cma-email-lists/email-list-guidelines/
_______________________________________________
To unsubscribe or manage your CMA-L mailing list subscription please visit:
<http://mailman.commedia.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/cma-l>
http://mailman.commedia.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/cma-l
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mailman.commedia.org.uk/pipermail/cma-l/attachments/20170324/ebc817f2/attachment.html>
More information about the cma-l
mailing list