[cma-l] The proverbial pudding
Ian Hickling
transplanfm at hotmail.com
Fri Mar 24 13:54:11 GMT 2017
Can I put forward the suggestion I made yesterday elsewhere?
Rather than continue to scratch around for something that doesn't exist - why not look at the problem from a different perspective?
Any good Sales Trainer will explain how to deal with an awkward question from a Prospect.
In response to the inevitable question:
"How many listeners have you got?"
- rather than try to explain that you don't know - and there is no reliable way of finding out - try asking him a question:
"How many new customers do you need every week?"
- and take it from there.
The whole point of a successful selling process is to get the Prospect to provide a need that you can satisfy.
Ian Hickling
Partner
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From: cma-l-bounces at mailman.commedia.org.uk <cma-l-bounces at mailman.commedia.org.uk> on behalf of Martin Steers <martin at martinsteers.co.uk>
Sent: 24 March 2017 13:21
To: The Community Media Association Discussion List
Subject: Re: [cma-l] FW: the pudding
I completely agree that the quality and engagement of the audience is where CR stations can win, this is the argument I have used several times when talking about coverage and listenership.
In terms of surveys you have to be cautious about how you do your own, there have been Ofcom breaches based of stations reporting their own surveys conducted by their own volunteers etc.
I believe the Radio Response team did put together a robust methodology of street surveys that I think had real promise, and it is a shame that the radio fund pot wasnt large enough to accomodate their trial.
I believe a robust methodology that holds up well to scrutiny that could be adopted and utilised across the country could not only produce numbers that local stations can use, but also a national picture that can be presented to national brands and organisations.
Thats assuming we are happy with the numbers it produces, and shows people really are listening.
If you want other methodologies and approaches I was inspired a few years ago with Andy from Bay with his "carjar" which I believe involving asking one or two local garages to survey what radio stations the local cars and tuned to when they are brought in.
On 24 March 2017 at 12:58, <tlr at gairloch.co.uk<mailto:tlr at gairloch.co.uk>> wrote:
Absolutely Glynn, that is a key point.
Any community station whose area is also served by a mainstream commercial station is likely to have a hard time winning any argument based on numbers, but can focus on its reach with a different demographic.
This was in part the argument that won us regular Scottish Government advertising bookings, and the same arguments should apply to UK government spend.
Rather than spending large amounts on RAJAR or commissioning wide scale research, I would suggest that stations do as we do, which is commission their own local surveys from time to time (even if only every few years), with a combination of survey forms through letterboxes, people with clipboards on streetcorners, and online surveys. These can be used as good evidence of local reach, and also identify more demographic details, and relatively low cost, especially if you have volunteers willing to act as foot soldiers in getting the research done.
Alex
On 24 March 2017 at 11:45 Associated Broadcast Consultants <info at a-bc.co.uk<mailto:info at a-bc.co.uk>> wrote:
I'm not an expert, but in addition to pure numbers, I think many CR stations can argue that they have better reach into "hard to reach" groups. As such they "should" punch above their weight for national or local Government advertising - not that it happens!
Glyn
On 24 March 2017 at 09:48, Alan Coote <alan.coote at 5digital.co.uk<mailto:alan.coote at 5digital.co.uk>> wrote:
Bill et al,
I’ve been giving this some thought and have exchanged a couple of emails with James off list.
As Let’s Talk Business is one of the larger syndicate shows we need to track our audience across around 100 stations. By the nature of community radio, all traditional mechanisms are a non-starter.
For the purposes of working out a national audience, we get close enough…
The average MCA of a community station is around 35,000 people whereas the average MCA for a commercial station (excluding London FM) is 700,000 = 20 times greater. This means even exceptionally engaged individual community stations with a high share won’t increase a campaigns exposure as much as a moderate commercial station.
We also accept that in most areas the community station will not be the first choice, so their share will be less than the best one or two commercial stations in their market.
This means we use an 8% - 15% reach for established community stations. We often don’t include audience figures for stations who have only been on-air under a year.
We know that commercial stations TSAs are between 20% – 40% higher than their MCA as both are published. And as Ofcom have also published community stations MCA’s, we can derive a proxy TSA for each community station.
We make further adjustments for other factors but these add rigour to the estimation and often become lost in a rounding error.
Finally, when we launch our new show shortly we’ll have an improved system able to give daily daypart estimations. Which absolutely no one has asked for! :)
Kind Regards
Alan
Alan Coote
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From: <cma-l-bounces at mailman.commedia.org.uk<mailto:cma-l-bounces at mailman.commedia.org.uk>> on behalf of "bill.best at commedia.org.uk<mailto:bill.best at commedia.org.uk>" <bill.best at commedia.org.uk<mailto:bill.best at commedia.org.uk>>
Reply-To: "cma-l at mailman.commedia.org.uk<mailto:cma-l at mailman.commedia.org.uk>" <cma-l at mailman.commedia.org.uk<mailto:cma-l at mailman.commedia.org.uk>>
Date: Thursday, 23 March 2017 at 14:49
To: "cma-l at mailman.commedia.org.uk<mailto:cma-l at mailman.commedia.org.uk>" <cma-l at mailman.commedia.org.uk<mailto:cma-l at mailman.commedia.org.uk>>
Subject: Re: [cma-l] FW: the pudding
Thanks Glyn.
The CMA is looking into the data / statistical solution that has previously been given some exposure.
Best regards
Bill
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Community Media Association
http://www.commedia.org.uk
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On 23 March 2017 at 14:30, Associated Broadcast Consultants <info at a-bc.co.uk<mailto:info at a-bc.co.uk>> wrote:
I think another problem is that Murphy's law applies here.
Because CR audiences are smaller (no one knows for certain, but let's assume so!), that means they need a larger sample size to get a statistically significant answer for CR than for larger stations.
Thus we are in a situation where something costs much more to deliver, yet we want it for less/free.
Not sure of the solution to that dilemma apart from to "work smarter" - eg: the James Cridland/Media UK solution using Tunin stats etc. If James is not able/willing to host and lobby for that solution, maybe another suitable independent organisation could do it?
https://media.info/<http://media.info/>uk/radio/data/rajar-vs-tunein
Glyn
On 23 March 2017 at 14:08, Martin Steers <martin at martinsteers.co.uk<mailto:martin at martinsteers.co.uk>> wrote:
I do have a question as to who should pay?
If you were presented an option to pay say £1,000 but get this survey data that in the right hands could bring in 10 times that as income surely that would be seen as a good investment?
Martin
On 23 March 2017 at 13:11, Terry Beale <t.beale at tonefm.co.uk<mailto:t.beale at tonefm.co.uk>> wrote:
I would echo the sentiments. As a not for profit station we can't afford to pay for this and we are always being asked the question.
CR stations need support we do a valuable job!!
Terry Beale
On Thu, 23 Mar 2017 at 10:33, Eden FM Radio <admin at edenfm.co.uk<mailto:admin at edenfm.co.uk>> wrote:
I found that email mildly insulting.
The most popular question we are asked when trying to sell advertising or apply for a grant, is "how many people listen".
We would LOVE to be able to say ". . . community radio formal research shows . . . " it would make our life in the frozen north-west of England easier.
No national advertiser is going to put money in to community radio without some acceptable industry standard research.
Not every station would want to take national advertising or, in some cases, any advertising at all and we all respect that I hope. Eden FM, however, would be happy to receive some income from this source.
It was disappointing that Ofcom felt unable to support the application to fund some industry standard research and I hope that somehow there can be a resolution.
Cheers.
-Nigel-
Eden FM Radio Ltd
Office : 01786 899 101
Studio: 01768 899 107
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----- Original Message -----
From: Canalside's The Thread<mailto:office at thethread.org.uk>
To: 'The Community Media Association Discussion List'<mailto:cma-l at mailman.commedia.org.uk>
Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2017 5:21 PM
Subject: [cma-l] FW: the pudding
From: Canalside Community Radio Ltd [mailto:office at canalsideradio.net<mailto:office at canalsideradio.net>]
Sent: 22 March 2017 17:19
To: 'Canalside's The Thread' <office at thethread.org.uk<mailto:office at thethread.org.uk>>
Subject: FW: the pudding
Dear All
This came through today from Radio Response ……… we’re giving it a go here at Canalside I have to say though we are our own worst enemy. People are bending over backwards to help us, why are we not ALL running these to give ourselves a fighting chance ? the sooner we start operating as a ‘collective’ fraternity the better it will be for everyone. Surely even the ‘I’m alright Jacks’ could do the decent thing and try help the ones who are having a bit of a tough time ??? maybe I’m going soft in my old age ?
_____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
AUDIENCE RESEARCH
As most of you will know by now, unfortunately, OFCOM did not grant the funds for our Somer Valley FM led bid to provide audience research to a consortium of 20 stations. The funding pot this time round totalled £200,000 and whilst our bid was well received the committee did not feel it could justify the allocation of 20% of the fund to one bid. We are looking for alternative funding opportunities and will keep you posted on developments.
____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Which Pot of funding is this ? and why do we need audience research again ? is this yet another consultation dressed up with a different wording ?
Surely, once you launch something like this you are then in the Commercial Zone. The proof of the Pudding is in the eating isn’t it ? WE (as a collective body) either get ready for a fall and Radio Response change their name to Radio No Response or we hit the jackpot and the results come flooding in. The three trial Advertisers then write ‘’’testimonials’’’ for the Sales people to pitch at the next target. I personally think a fair to middling response would be good enough for us. Correct me if I am wrong but fair to middling from 250 Stations is rather good National Advertising isn’t it ?
However, as I have pointed out many times before, we have to be careful that we don’t go drifting off into NoddyLand …… there is no guarantee that if we were on Rajar that the figures would make good reading ----- if this was the case then surely on a National Scheme we’d be going backwards wouldn’t we? So best stick with Herbert Muggins the Candlestick Maker in the Village. Then again (REMAINING POSITIVE) the figures could prove very promising and exciting …………. I am already stripped down to my undies in anticipation, and ready to take the big splash plunge into the Canal Yippeeeee
Onwards and Upwards / Monkeeeee Magic
I’m sure the team will keep us posted
Nicholas H Dumpty / Sales Co-Ordinator & Chief Cashier ka-ching ***
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