[cma-l] PPL and PRSfM - Community Radio "Licences"

Fri Sep 16 14:42:43 BST 2016

Can I just please please please get everybody back down into the real World     (apologies if I come across rude)

Let us all wake up and smell the Coffee.

I actually believe that these characters ought to paying us and not us paying them .. however in the REAL WORLD this isn’t going to happen, nor are any of the other ‘’’off-with-the-fairies’’’ questions and observations.

Let us agree that we have to pay      which we do ……….. the real job in hand now is 3 fold :- and how much/by what system and process

1)      What is OUR Policy as a sector ? what are OUR thoughts and opinions as a collective body ? …… as I see it, like in many other areas, we don’t actually have one. The reason we don’t have one is because we invite people like Mr BBC Local Region Man to every Conference he/they spend a wasted hour telling me everything I already know, everything they told me last year, the year before and the year before that and then give me some wonderful, precious, valuable advice like     ‘’go and have a cup of Tea’’   

2)      These sessions are all well and good if there is an end result. Let us look at PRS/PPL for example. I went to the Network on Saturday. There were no surprises and it all ran true to form and true to Ground Hog Day. Laura and Lucy are very nice young ladies, very professional and very knowledgeable ….. however, sorry to say they weren’t telling me anything I don’t already know either … and when we got to REAL / PROPER Questions they were not in a position to answer, advise or dismiss. Basically we wait for the consultation. ‘’Sound familiar ??’’         so    the Community Media Association Question and Answer sessions run true to form also              they either run out of time so there are no questions nor answers or we get a few questions but nobody has the answers because they have to go back to the Big Chief for a consultation. In other words …. Our Organ Grinders need to speaking to their Organ Grinders with a clear mandate and policy     this is how it works …… instead we seem to have the monkeys talking to the monkeys but the monkeys don’t have a policy        me being a Monkey as well of course. We can’t move in here for Bananas ! and consultations !

3)      Aha !      there’s that magical word again    yet another consultation !         can I also please explain how this should be working. The CMA should consult us, and we consult with them … we find common ground amongst ourselves and then the CMA go into the Room with the Powers that be at PRS/PPL / DCMS / Ofcom   etc etc   and we tell them what OUR thoughts are as a COLLECTIVE body. They then say Yay or Nay         if it is a Yay, then we do cartwheels, throw our Hats into the air, eat a Banana or two and come home with a big smile on our face … if it is a mini / ickle nope --- then we try to find some middle ground in a negotiation. If however we get the BIG FAT NO which has in the main been the case from all directions over the past 12 Years then you apply your members mandate …. A mandate of what I would hope after 12 Years of banging ones head against a brick wall is SOLID SUPPORT and a Plan B.

Those who stayed for the awards on Saturday would have witnessed some fabulous stories and projects and people … inspiration was abound ….. remember that a lot of our achievements have actually come being up against a lot of adversity and from what I saw and witnessed on Saturday this sector is worth fighting for and we as people deserve better treatment.

Unfortunately guys, sometimes things don’t come easy and you have to be prepared to take the hard route. I believe we have been at this stage for about 5 years but choose to have nice fluffy gatherings as opposed to nailing colours to masts as a collective      ie:- 260 !

So, to conclude :- in this PRS/PPL instance, we will achieve nothing if we all start sending in individual willy nilly suggestions (again)   because all you demonstrate is a rag tag and bobtail approach … the old ‘’’divide and conquer’’’ then kicks in.

We then carry on regardless after what we don’t want or don’t like is implemented (if it hasn’t already) and we spend another 2 years whinging and moaning on facebook and message boards   (me included of course)

At least we have established two things in this correspondence    I am a whinger and a monkey ….. I would much rather be that though than a nodding Dog

All I am trying to do is rally the troops and get mandates and support for the sector from the sector by the sector.

Finally, I believe we should implement the ‘Brian Clough Philosophy’             take note of all the pointers and facts and observations over the years that have been brought up by the likes of Steve / Richard / Ian / Andy / Glyn / Dom / Phil / Alex etc etc etc and discuss them, tweak them, throw em around a bit, tweak em again, have a discussion and then an argument, eat a Banana and tweak again and then actually agree and realise that all the observations that WE have made over the years have actually been right.

I have spoken with and to lots and lots and lots and loads of folk over the past 5 years …. Another 50 or so at the weekend … they all agree with many of my tit-bits plus the general observations.

We need a mandate, we need a joined up agreement and policy and then we stick to it (after a few tweaks of course)

I am not blaming anyone here … we are victims of circumstance --- poor Bill and Team are running round just like us spinning 50 Plates with not much funding.

So       who getting the general consensus together at our end and then delivering it in person or by drone in this instance to prs/ppl     ??         or are we just going to carry on regardless?

I notice the discussion has drifted into Tribunals etc      please note that the moment a Community Wart’s n All Higgledy Piggledy  Not-for-Profit Radio Station ends up at a Tribunal with the Bully Boys, then everyone has failed. The ones who have failed the most in this instance are Government and Authority.

I believe that 99% of our requests over the years have been more than reasonable ….. the sooner the authorities get to grips with that the better it will be for everyone.

Nicholas MicOff

From: cma-l-bounces at mailman.commedia.org.uk [mailto:cma-l-bounces at mailman.commedia.org.uk] On Behalf Of Richard Berry
Sent: 16 September 2016 11:21
To: The Community Media Association Discussion List <cma-l at mailman.commedia.org.uk>
Subject: Re: [cma-l] PPL and PRSfM - Community Radio "Licences"

The legislation sets the framework, and the Copyright Tribunal set the fees (See here:  <http://www.prsformusic.com/aboutus/faqs/prsformusicfaqs/pages/default.aspx#9> http://www.prsformusic.com/aboutus/faqs/prsformusicfaqs/pages/default.aspx#9  here:  <https://www.gov.uk/guidance/licensing-bodies-and-collective-management-organisations> https://www.gov.uk/guidance/licensing-bodies-and-collective-management-organisations and here:  <https://www.gov.uk/government/organisations/copyright-tribunal> https://www.gov.uk/government/organisations/copyright-tribunal)

The general thrust is copyright owners have the right under law to be paid when their work is used. When you buy a CD you are granted permission (a licence) to play that music in certain situations. That does not include a public performance, where an additional licence must be granted. PRS and PPL are member organisations (As is EOS in Wales) who collect royalties for performances by their members. This makes it easier for us and for them. The fees are set by the bodies and overseen by Government. Obviously, the members want to biggest payment possible to offset losses through piracy etc.  You potentially don’t have to pay THEM the fees, but you would then permission for each element of the copyrights for everything that you did play. For example, the current number one “Closer” has 7 listed writers with which you would need to reach agreement. You’d also need consent from the publishers, the record label (possibly the owner and the subsidiaries) as well as the artists. Plus clearances for any samples used. Whilst we’d all wish the fees were lower, a blanket licence is by the far the easiest solution. If you object, you could of course run an all speech station, one where artists waive their rights (Amazing Radio did this for a bit) or music from artists who are not members. 

The power is with artists (see this about the split in Wales  <http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-30961059> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-30961059) It’s a shame you missed the PRS/PPL session last weeken Ian, we were looking forward to your questions

Best wishes

Richard

From:  <mailto:cma-l-bounces at mailman.commedia.org.uk> cma-l-bounces at mailman.commedia.org.uk [ <mailto:cma-l-bounces at mailman.commedia.org.uk> mailto:cma-l-bounces at mailman.commedia.org.uk] On Behalf Of Two Lochs Radio
Sent: 16 September 2016 10:25
To:  <mailto:office at thethread.org.uk> office at thethread.org.uk; Ian Hickling; The Community Media Association Discussion List
Subject: Re: [cma-l] PPL and PRSfM - Community Radio "Licences"

The answer to the simple question is the same as it has been every time you've asked Ian. It's the: Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988 Sections 116-123.

Alex.

On 16 September 2016 at 06:54 Ian Hickling <transplanfm at hotmail.com <mailto:transplanfm at hotmail.com> > wrote:

The very basic challenge I've posed - amongst others - to PRSfM and PPL is:

Show me please where in the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988 - or any other legislation - it says that I have to pay you exclusively the fees you are demanding.

Surely a very simple question - to which an answer is strangely not forthcoming?

Ian Hickling

Partner

 <http://www.transplanuk.com/> 

Office: 016 3557 8435  (07h to 22h GTS)

Car: 075 3098 0115 (only responds when driving)

6 Horn Street, Compton, NEWBURY, RG20 6QS

  _____  

From:  <mailto:cma-l-bounces at mailman.commedia.org.uk> cma-l-bounces at mailman.commedia.org.uk < <mailto:cma-l-bounces at mailman.commedia.org.uk> cma-l-bounces at mailman.commedia.org.uk> on behalf of Alex Gray, Two Lochs Radio < <mailto:tlr at gairloch.co.uk> tlr at gairloch.co.uk>
Sent: 15 September 2016 17:28
To:  <mailto:office at thethread.org.uk> office at thethread.org.uk; 'The Community Media Association Discussion List'
Subject: Re: [cma-l] FW: PPL and PRS for Music Community Radio Licences - Customer Consultation

Dear Mr Numpty

The rough answers to your questions are:

1)      Number of songs played per-hour      average

The only proposed change in reporting is that there will no longer be a need to submit an estimate of future revenue at the start of a year, only the actual revenue at the end of the year.

2)      Standard budget reasonable cost payment                           bearing – in – mind that

Whichever is the greater of:

Minimum combined fee of £1798/year, or

Combined royalties of 5% on 80% of any broadcast advertising or sponsorship income

3)      We are not for profit and our NET revenue is zero / zilch / diddly squat

That status is of no interest to PPL or PRS – they levy the royalties on 80% of your broadcast (and/or simulcast) advertising and sponsorship income, regardless of whether or not it leads to profit or you spend it all on coffee and doughnuts for the presenters. If you have no such income, then you would pay only the minimum fees. 

4)      No reporting, as there is nothing to report apart from song usage

See 1) above

Hope that fits within the attention span of a goldfish - good luck with the plates!

Alex

----------------------------

Anything outside of this, my attention span has suddenly developed into that of a Goldfish.

I fill the form in later as I need to get back to the 50 Plates ….. well    42 actually, as 8 have just dropped off

Nick Dumpty

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