[cma-l] DAB / copyright

Tony Bailey ravensound at pilgrimsound.co.uk
Thu Jul 23 07:12:48 BST 2015 

Alan, as below, also the original legal right actually didn't make 
provision for either performers or producers, only the author of the 
song (PRS) and the record company (PPL) had rights.  It was mainly about 
copying, publishing, public performance and broadcasting.

The law was concerned with physical objects (sheet music and records) 
and who's name was on it.  The people who performed the music depended 
(and may still do) on a contribution from the record company.

Tony

On 22/07/15 19:55, tlr at gairloch.co.uk wrote:
> Alan
> As per my posting of 15:49, it isn't hard to understand.
> Messrs Starkey and Martin are entitled to any payments they might have 
> been due as composers/performers/arranger, through PRS, but EMI is not 
> due any royalties through PPL for the use of the recording of their 
> work.  The recording is out of copyright, the original 
> compositions/performances are not.
> Alex
>
> > On 22 July 2015 at 19:11 Alan Coote <alan.coote at 5digital.co.uk> wrote:
> >
> >
> > Tony,
> >
> > So you're saying that the recording of 'Love Me Do' released 5th 
> October 1962 is out of copyright so Ringo (performer) and George 
> Martin (producer) are not due any royalties?
> >
> >
> > Regards Alan
> >
> >
> > On 22/07/2015 16:06, "Tony Bailey" 
> <cma-l-bounces at mailman.commedia.org.uk on behalf of 
> ravensound at pilgrimsound.co.uk> wrote:
> >
> > >That is how I read it, generally, apart from a few "traditional" tunes
> > >and early classical composers, most sheet music is likely to belong to
> > >somebody, due to the death + 70 rule.
> > >
> > >Sound recordings in the UK have been protected for 50 years after
> > >issue. As you say, this was changed to 70 years by the EU and ratified
> > >with effect from 1 Nov 2013 in the UK.
> > >
> > >However, the change was not retrospective and recordings not in
> > >copyright on 1 Nov 2013 remain in the public domain, e.g. issued prior
> > >to 1 Nov 1963. I understand it was custom and practice to accept 
> expiry
> > >at the end of the relevant year so the previous year 1962 would 
> apply in
> > >practice - that's really down to the small print.
> > >
> > >Regards, Tony
> > >
> > >On 22/07/15 15:06, Alan Coote wrote:
> > >> I think the EU directive was put in place to rationalise the 
> copyright of all parties involved.
> > >>
> > >> The 1988 copyright law allowed for the rights for the works i,e, 
> the words and music to be in place for 70 years from the end of the 
> year that the last remaining rights owner died. So recordings made two 
> generations ago would still easily be in copyright.
> > >>
> > >> If my understanding is correct, the 2013 EU directive puts a 70 
> year copyright rule in place for the production of the sound rather 
> than 50 years. The creators of the words and music still have rights 
> to the work for 70 years after they die as per the 1988 legislation.
> > >>
> > >> For example if (god forbid) Paul, Ringo or George Martin all 
> popped their clogs tomorrow the Beatles Love Me Do would be in 
> copyright one way or another until January 1st 2086.
> > >>
> > >> I'd be really happy if someone more knowledgeable than I (which 
> won't be difficult) could clarify?
> > >>
> > >> Kind Regards
> > >> Alan
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> On 22/07/2015 12:46, "Tony Bailey" 
> <cma-l-bounces at mailman.commedia.org.uk on behalf of 
> ravensound at pilgrimsound.co.uk> wrote:
> > >>
> > >>> Now there's a thought Nick - the record companies who went round 
> to 38
> > >>> Hertford Street to buy 15 minutes of airtime on a megawatt 
> medium wave
> > >>> transmitter in the Grand Duchy. No PPL then!!
> > >>>
> > >>> I suggest you only play recordings first released in the UK 
> before the
> > >>> end of 1962 and tell the record companies that they can pay you 
> if they
> > >>> want to hear anything more recent!
> > >>>
> > >>> EU Directive 2011/77/EU:
> > >>>
> > >>> In September 2011 the EU approved a directive which extended the 
> period
> > >>> of protection from 50 to 70 years for copyright and performers` 
> rights
> > >>> in most published sound recordings. This change came into effect 
> in the
> > >>> UK on 1 November 2013.
> > >>>
> > >>> The extension of the term of protection applies only to those sound
> > >>> recordings that were in copyright on 1 November 2013 and to any 
> sound
> > >>> recordings made after that date. The extended period of 
> protection does
> > >>> not apply to those sound recordings where copyright has already 
> expired.
> > >>>
> > >>> (Hence UK Recordings released before the end of 1962 are 
> expired. For
> > >>> 1963 the copyright expiry date is end of 2032.)
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> 
> https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/copyright-in-sound-recordings/copyright-in-sound-recordings
> > >>>
> > >>> Tony Bailey
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> On 22/07/15 11:22, Canalside's The Thread wrote:
> > >>>> RESTRICTIONS is the name of the game .... we'll now see if the 
> Goose and
> > >>>> Gander are rolled out LOL I bet you they aren't ...
> > >>>>
> > >>>> The rules appear to be ''whatever suits'' write em down on the 
> back of a
> > >>>> fag packet and make it up as you go along.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Do you not get the feeling that technically, we're getting 
> kicked from all
> > >>>> sides ...........apologies everyone, am I playing that sympathy 
> card again ?
> > >>>> LOL
> > >>>>
> > >>>> With reference to DAB I was reading in one National Newspaper 
> on Monday a
> > >>>> rather large article (Express / Mail ??) not sure ? that DAB in 
> some
> > >>>> Countries had been successful ... but here in the UK it had 
> technically
> > >>>> 'bombed' and was about as popular as passing wind in a space suit
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Good ol' FM and Medium wave OF COURSE ... some of my happiest 
> times as
> > >>>> a 15/16/17 year old in the mid-seventies was tuned into my 
> little transistor
> > >>>> Radio on 208 metres Medium wave Radio Luxembourg ... Bob 
> Stewart Top 40
> > >>>> countdown ... that awful reception in winter when it used to 
> fade in and
> > >>>> fade out with an element of distortion .not acceptable now of 
> course but
> > >>>> then ! no one bothered, it was part of fixture and fittings
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Great Days
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Nick
> > >>>>
> > >>>> -----Original Message-----
> > >>>> From: cma-l-bounces at mailman.commedia.org.uk
> > >>>> [mailto:cma-l-bounces at mailman.commedia.org.uk] On Behalf Of 
> fantasy office
> > >>>> Sent: 21 July 2015 21:47
> > >>>> To: cma-l at mailman.commedia.org.uk
> > >>>> Subject: [cma-l] DAB
> > >>>>
> > >>>> What a great idea... stick a whole new extra tranche of 
> stations on in
> > >>>> your own area to compete with. A financially unsupportable notion.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Sorry, it cannot work. There is only a finite amount of money 
> available
> > >>>> for advertising in any given area and almost nothing in the way of
> > >>>> grants or donations.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Phil Dawson
> > >>>> FANTASY RADIO 97FM
> > >>>> Devizes, Wiltshire.
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>> --
> > >>> Local Reports at http://www.ravensound.pilgrimsound.co.uk
> > >>>
> > >>> _______________________________________________
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> > >--
> > >Local Reports at http://www.ravensound.pilgrimsound.co.uk
> > >
> > >_______________________________________________
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-- 
Local Reports at http://www.ravensound.pilgrimsound.co.uk

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