[cma-l] Joint PRS/PPL licences

Mon Jul 4 12:53:18 BST 2016

Good afternoon

The issue of whether VAT was applicable would be a matter for HMRC and not
for PPL and PRSfM - but as Richard states PPL and PRSfM would have examined
this issue in great detail, not that we should ever be complacent.
Furthermore, on the legality of anything that the licensing agencies do,
they both have entire departments charged with looking at legal minutiae
and everything that they do is rigorously checked from a legal perspective.

On the question of VAT, you can usually reclaim the VAT paid on goods and
services purchased for use in your business.

You cannot reclaim VAT for:

   - anything that’s only for private use
   - goods and services your business uses to make VAT-exempt supplies
   <https://www.gov.uk/vat-businesses/when-not-to-charge-vat>
   - business entertainment costs
   - anything you’ve bought from other EU countries (you may be able to
   reclaim VAT charged under the electronic cross-border refund system
   <https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/vat-notice-723a-refunds-of-vat-in-the-european-community-for-ec-and-non-ec-businesses/vat-notice-723a-refunds-of-vat-in-the-european-community-for-ec-and-non-ec-businesses>
   )
   - goods sold to you under one of the VAT second-hand margin schemes
   <https://www.gov.uk/vat-margin-schemes>
   - business assets that are transferred to you as a going concern
   <https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/vat-notice-7009-transfer-of-business-as-a-going-concern/vat-notice-7009-transfer-of-business-as-a-going-concern>

More details here about reclaiming VAT:
https://www.gov.uk/reclaim-vat/what-you-can-and-cant-reclaim

CMA members needing more information and assistance on reclaiming VAT can
email vatregistration at commedia.org.uk for further help.

Best regards

Bill
-- 
Operations Manager
Community Media Association
http://www.commedia.org.uk
https://twitter.com/community_media
https://facebook.com/CommunityMediaAssociation

Canstream Internet Radio
http://www.canstream.co.uk
https://twitter.com/canstream

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2016: http://bit.ly/2016CMAConf <http://bit.ly/2016CMAConf>*

On 4 July 2016 at 12:08, Richard Hilton <Richard.Hilton at bitc.org.uk> wrote:

> Taking up the VAT point (so feel free to skip this post if VAT leaves you
> cold!).
>
>
>
> VAT; given their size I’d be amazed if they don’t have someone on their
> staff who is a VAT expert or that they can’t call on professional advisors
> on whether to charge VAT or not.  So at some time in the past they should
> have taken advice on this.
>
>
>
> However, it would have depended on the question they asked the ‘VAT man’
> and, believe it or not, it may well suit them to charge VAT.  For example,
> they may be partially exempt for VAT purpose and if you are and depending
> on your scheme charging VAT on as much as possible can be beneficial.
>
>
>
> The bottom line is that it is worth challenging them why they charge VAT
> and when they last challenged the VAT Man why they should be charging VAT.
>
>
>
> I’d be interested to know if anyone charged VAT by a supplier (i.e. PRS /
> PPL) can go straight to the ‘VAT Man’ and query why they are being charged
> VAT.  Anyone know the answer?
>
>
>
>
>
> Richard
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* cma-l-bounces at mailman.commedia.org.uk [mailto:
> cma-l-bounces at mailman.commedia.org.uk] *On Behalf Of *Ian Hickling
> *Sent:* 04 July 2016 08:21
> *To:* The Community Media Association Discussion List
> *Subject:* [cma-l] Joint PRS/PPL licences
>
>
>
> Thanks Alex - clarity personified.
> Following on from that, let's look at another aspect of the operation of
> the collecting societies.
>
> Where else in the conduct of a normal business are you expected to pay for
> a service voluntarily and at your own instigation?
>
> PPL and PRSfM should determine from published information - as anyone can
> - who is broadcasting and then should generate a
> conventional Invoice explaining in proper legal terms why the debt has been
> incurred.
>
> I still maintain that - regardless of colloquial terminology - as they are
> subject to VAT, these royalty payments are "services" - not "licences".
>
> The VAT Regulations make the distinction very clearly and they are firmly
> enforced as we all know.
>
> Ian Hickling
>
> Partner
>
> <http://www.transplanuk.com/>
>
> *Office: 016 3557 8435  (07h to 22h GTS)*
>
> *Car: 075 3098 0115 (only responds when driving)*
>
> *6 Horn Street, Compton, NEWBURY, RG20 6QS*
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> From: tlr at gairloch.co.uk
> To: cma-l at mailman.commedia.org.uk
> Date: Sun, 3 Jul 2016 13:59:17 +0100
> Subject: Re: [cma-l] Joint PRS/PPL licences
>
> Ian, the collecting societies *are* authorized by statute (the 1988
> Copyright Act). But it any event, legal agreements granting permissions to
> use copyright are conventionally referred to as ‘licences’, whether issued
> by a private holder, commercial company or collecting society. A licence is
> a formally granted consent to do something which the licensor otherwise has
> the right to restrict.
>
>
>
> I mentioned this in a posting a few days. It is in return for this
> statutorily granted privilege that they are subject to the legal option of
> a user deeming their own licence and taking recourse to the Copyright
> Tribunal.
>
>
>
> NB, and strictly playing devil’s advocate, they are *not* commercial
> organizations any more than the typical CR station, just a lot bigger and
> less reputable in their behaviour. They are not-for-profit membership
> societies incorporated as Companies Limited by Guarantee.
>
>
>
> See also PPL’s constitution at
> http://www.ppluk.com/Documents/Code%20of%20Conduct%20PDFs/PPL%20Articles%20of%20Association%202016.pdf
>
>
>
> Alex
>
>
>
> *From:* cma-l-bounces at mailman.commedia.org.uk [
> mailto:cma-l-bounces at mailman.commedia.org.uk
> <cma-l-bounces at mailman.commedia.org.uk>] *On Behalf Of *Ian Hickling
> *Sent:* 02 July 2016 14:53
> *To:* The Community Media Association Discussion List <
> cma-l at mailman.commedia.org.uk>; Bill Best <bill.best at commedia.org.uk>;
> colin at susyradio.com
> *Subject:* [cma-l] Joint PRS/PPL licences
>
>
>
> As ever - thanks Bill for taking the trouble to spell out the situation.
>
> I would however - at the risk of invoking terminal boredom on the part of
> some of our friends - query just one word - "licence!".
>
> These are not licences.
>
> A licence is permission issued by a Statutory Authority to authorise the
> Licensee to perform a specific function.
> Ofcom is precisely that, H M Government's appointed Broadcast Regulator -
> and in the case of an RSL issues the BA (Broadcasting Act) Licence at £30
> per day and the WTA (Wireless Telegraphy Act) Licence  at £40 per day.
>
>
>
>
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