<div dir="ltr">Good afternoon<div><br></div><div>The issue of whether VAT was applicable would be a matter for HMRC and not for PPL and PRSfM - but as Richard states PPL and PRSfM would have examined this issue in great detail, not that we should ever be complacent. Furthermore, on the legality of anything that the licensing agencies do, they both have entire departments charged with looking at legal minutiae and everything that they do is rigorously checked from a legal perspective.</div><div><br></div><div>On the question of VAT, you can usually reclaim the VAT paid on goods and services purchased for use in your business.</div><div><br></div><div><div>You cannot reclaim VAT for:</div><div><ul><li>anything that’s only for private use<br></li><li>goods and services your business uses to make <a href="https://www.gov.uk/vat-businesses/when-not-to-charge-vat">VAT-exempt supplies</a><br></li><li>business entertainment costs<br></li><li>anything you’ve bought from other EU countries (you may be able to reclaim VAT charged under the <a href="https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/vat-notice-723a-refunds-of-vat-in-the-european-community-for-ec-and-non-ec-businesses/vat-notice-723a-refunds-of-vat-in-the-european-community-for-ec-and-non-ec-businesses">electronic cross-border refund system</a>)<br></li><li>goods sold to you under one of the <a href="https://www.gov.uk/vat-margin-schemes">VAT second-hand margin schemes</a><br></li><li>business assets that are transferred to you as a <a href="https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/vat-notice-7009-transfer-of-business-as-a-going-concern/vat-notice-7009-transfer-of-business-as-a-going-concern">going concern</a><br></li></ul></div></div><div>More details here about reclaiming VAT: <a href="https://www.gov.uk/reclaim-vat/what-you-can-and-cant-reclaim">https://www.gov.uk/reclaim-vat/what-you-can-and-cant-reclaim</a></div><div><br></div><div>CMA members needing more information and assistance on reclaiming VAT can email <a href="mailto:vatregistration@commedia.org.uk">vatregistration@commedia.org.uk</a> for further help.</div><div><div class="gmail_extra"><br></div><div class="gmail_extra">Best regards</div><div class="gmail_extra"><br></div><div class="gmail_extra">Bill</div><div class="gmail_extra">-- </div><div class="gmail_extra"><div><div class="gmail_signature" data-smartmail="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><span><div><div><div><div><div>Operations Manager<br></div>Community Media Association<br></div><a href="http://www.commedia.org.uk" target="_blank">http://www.commedia.org.uk</a><br></div><div><a href="https://twitter.com/community_media" target="_blank">https://twitter.com/community_media</a><br></div><div><a href="https://facebook.com/CommunityMediaAssociation" target="_blank">https://facebook.com/CommunityMediaAssociation</a><br><br></div><div></div>Canstream Internet Radio<br></div><a href="http://www.canstream.co.uk" target="_blank">http://www.canstream.co.uk</a><br></div><a href="https://twitter.com/canstream" target="_blank">https://twitter.com/canstream</a></span></div></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div><b><font size="4" color="#0000ff">Book your tickets now for the Community Media Conference 2016: <a href="http://bit.ly/2016CMAConf" target="_blank">http://bit.ly/2016CMAConf</a></font></b></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div>
<br><div class="gmail_quote">On 4 July 2016 at 12:08, Richard Hilton <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:Richard.Hilton@bitc.org.uk" target="_blank">Richard.Hilton@bitc.org.uk</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div lang="EN-GB" link="blue" vlink="purple">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">Taking up the VAT point (so feel free to skip this post if VAT leaves you cold!).<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">VAT; given their size I’d be amazed if they don’t have someone on their staff who is a VAT expert or that they can’t call on professional
advisors on whether to charge VAT or not. So at some time in the past they should have taken advice on this.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">However, it would have depended on the question they asked the ‘VAT man’ and, believe it or not, it may well suit them to charge
VAT. For example, they may be partially exempt for VAT purpose and if you are and depending on your scheme charging VAT on as much as possible can be beneficial.
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">The bottom line is that it is worth challenging them why they charge VAT and when they last challenged the VAT Man why they should
be charging VAT.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">I’d be interested to know if anyone charged VAT by a supplier (i.e. PRS / PPL) can go straight to the ‘VAT Man’ and query why they
are being charged VAT. Anyone know the answer?<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">Richard<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<div>
<div style="border-style:solid none none;border-top-width:1pt;border-top-color:rgb(225,225,225);padding:3pt 0cm 0cm">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">From:</span></b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> <a href="mailto:cma-l-bounces@mailman.commedia.org.uk" target="_blank">cma-l-bounces@mailman.commedia.org.uk</a> [mailto:<a href="mailto:cma-l-bounces@mailman.commedia.org.uk" target="_blank">cma-l-bounces@mailman.commedia.org.uk</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Ian Hickling<br>
<b>Sent:</b> 04 July 2016 08:21<span class=""><br>
<b>To:</b> The Community Media Association Discussion List<br>
</span></span></p><div><div class="h5"><b>Subject:</b> [cma-l] Joint PRS/PPL licences<u></u><u></u></div></div><p></p>
</div>
</div><div><div class="h5">
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:black">Thanks Alex - clarity personified.<br>
Following on from that, let's look at another aspect of the operation of the collecting societies.</span><span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:black">Where else in the conduct of a normal business are you expected to pay for a service voluntarily and at your own instigation?</span><span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:black">PPL and PRSfM should determine from published information - as anyone can - who is broadcasting and then should generate a conventional Invoice explaining in proper legal terms
why the debt has been incurred.</span><span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:black">I still maintain that - regardless of colloquial terminology - as they are subject to VAT, these royalty payments are "services" - not "licences".</span><span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt"><span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:black">The VAT Regulations make the distinction very clearly and they are firmly enforced as we all know.</span><span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height:17.05pt;background-image:initial;background-color:white;background-repeat:initial">
<span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(34,34,34)">Ian Hickling</span><span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(68,68,68)"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height:17.05pt;background:white"><span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(34,34,34)">Partner</span><span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(68,68,68)"><br>
<br>
<a href="http://www.transplanuk.com/" target="_blank"><span style="color:rgb(17,85,204);text-decoration:none"><img border="0" src="http://www.transplanuk.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/transplan_UK_weblogo_190x60.png"></span></a><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height:17.05pt;background:white"><i><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(34,34,34)">Office: 016 3557 8435 (07h to 22h GTS)</span></i><span style="color:rgb(68,68,68)"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height:17.05pt;background:white"><i><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(34,34,34)">Car: 075 3098 0115 (only responds when driving)</span></i><span style="color:rgb(68,68,68)"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height:17.05pt;background:white"><i><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(34,34,34)">6 Horn Street, Compton, NEWBURY, RG20 6QS</span></i><span style="color:rgb(68,68,68)"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt"><span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<div>
<div class="MsoNormal" align="center" style="text-align:center"><span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">
<hr size="2" width="100%" align="center">
</span></div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt"><span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">From:
<a href="mailto:tlr@gairloch.co.uk" target="_blank">tlr@gairloch.co.uk</a><br>
To: <a href="mailto:cma-l@mailman.commedia.org.uk" target="_blank">cma-l@mailman.commedia.org.uk</a><br>
Date: Sun, 3 Jul 2016 13:59:17 +0100<br>
Subject: Re: [cma-l] Joint PRS/PPL licences<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">Ian, the collecting societies
<b>are</b> authorized by statute (the 1988 Copyright Act). But it any event, legal agreements granting permissions to use copyright are conventionally referred to as ‘licences’, whether issued by a private holder, commercial company or collecting society. A
licence is a formally granted consent to do something which the licensor otherwise has the right to restrict.</span><span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"> </span><span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">I mentioned this in a posting a few days. It is in return for this statutorily granted privilege that they are subject to the legal option of a user deeming
their own licence and taking recourse to the Copyright Tribunal.</span><span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"> </span><span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">NB, and strictly playing devil’s advocate, they are
<b>not</b> commercial organizations any more than the typical CR station, just a lot bigger and less reputable in their behaviour. They are not-for-profit membership societies incorporated as Companies Limited by Guarantee.
</span><span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"> </span><span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">See also PPL’s constitution at
<a href="http://www.ppluk.com/Documents/Code%20of%20Conduct%20PDFs/PPL%20Articles%20of%20Association%202016.pdf" target="_blank">
http://www.ppluk.com/Documents/Code%20of%20Conduct%20PDFs/PPL%20Articles%20of%20Association%202016.pdf</a></span><span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"> </span><span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">Alex
</span><span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"> </span><span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<div>
<div style="border-style:solid none none;border-top-width:1pt;border-top-color:rgb(225,225,225);padding:3pt 0cm 0cm">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">From:</span></b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">
<a href="mailto:cma-l-bounces@mailman.commedia.org.uk" target="_blank">cma-l-bounces@mailman.commedia.org.uk</a> [<a href="mailto:cma-l-bounces@mailman.commedia.org.uk" target="_blank">mailto:cma-l-bounces@mailman.commedia.org.uk</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Ian Hickling<br>
<b>Sent:</b> 02 July 2016 14:53<br>
<b>To:</b> The Community Media Association Discussion List <<a href="mailto:cma-l@mailman.commedia.org.uk" target="_blank">cma-l@mailman.commedia.org.uk</a>>; Bill Best <<a href="mailto:bill.best@commedia.org.uk" target="_blank">bill.best@commedia.org.uk</a>>;
<a href="mailto:colin@susyradio.com" target="_blank">colin@susyradio.com</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [cma-l] Joint PRS/PPL licences</span><span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> <u></u><u></u></span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:black">As ever - thanks Bill for taking the trouble to spell out the situation.</span><span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:black">I would however - at the risk of invoking terminal boredom on the part of some of our friends - query just one word - "licence!".</span><span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:black">These are not licences.</span><span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:black">A licence is permission issued by a Statutory Authority to authorise the Licensee to perform a specific function.<br>
Ofcom is precisely that, H M Government's appointed Broadcast Regulator - and in the case of an RSL issues the BA (Broadcasting Act) Licence at £30 per day and the WTA (Wireless Telegraphy Act) Licence at £40 per day.</span><span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<table border="1" cellpadding="0" style="border-style:solid none none;border-top-width:1pt;border-top-color:rgb(211,212,222)">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td width="55" style="width:41.25pt;border:none;padding:9.75pt 0.75pt 0.75pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><a href="https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient" target="_blank"><span style="text-decoration:none"><img border="0" width="46" height="29" src="https://ipmcdn.avast.com/images/2016/icons/icon-envelope-tick-round-orange_184x116-v1.png"></span></a><u></u><u></u></p>
</td>
<td width="470" style="width:352.5pt;border:none;padding:9pt 0.75pt 0.75pt">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height:13.5pt"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(65,66,78)">Virus-free.
<a href="https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient" target="_blank">
<span style="color:rgb(68,83,234)">www.avast.com</span></a> <u></u><u></u></span></p>
</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><br>
_______________________________________________ Reply - <a href="mailto:cma-l@commedia.org.uk" target="_blank">
cma-l@commedia.org.uk</a> The cma-l mailing list is a members' service provided by the Community Media Association -
<a href="http://www.commedia.org.uk" target="_blank">http://www.commedia.org.uk</a> Twitter: <a href="http://twitter.com/community_media" target="_blank">
http://twitter.com/community_media</a> <a href="http://www.facebook.com/CommunityMediaAssociation" target="_blank">
http://www.facebook.com/CommunityMediaAssociation</a> Canstream Internet Radio & Video:
<a href="http://www.canstream.co.uk/" target="_blank">http://www.canstream.co.uk/</a> _______________________________________________ Mailing list guidelines:
<a href="http://www.commedia.org.uk/about/cma-email-lists/email-list-guidelines/" target="_blank">
http://www.commedia.org.uk/about/cma-email-lists/email-list-guidelines/</a> _______________________________________________ To unsubscribe or manage your CMA-L mailing list subscription please visit:
<a href="http://mailman.commedia.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/cma-l" target="_blank">http://mailman.commedia.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/cma-l</a><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div></div></div>
The information in this email is confidential and may be privileged. It is for use by the addressee only. If you are not the addressee or if this email is sent to you in error, please let us know by return and delete the email from your computer. You may not
copy it, or use its contents or disclose them to another person. No liability is accepted for viruses and it is your responsibility to scan any attachments.
</div>
<br>_______________________________________________<br>
<br>
Reply - <a href="mailto:cma-l@commedia.org.uk">cma-l@commedia.org.uk</a><br>
<br>
The cma-l mailing list is a members' service provided by the Community Media Association - <a href="http://www.commedia.org.uk" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.commedia.org.uk</a><br>
Twitter: <a href="http://twitter.com/community_media" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://twitter.com/community_media</a><br>
<a href="http://www.facebook.com/CommunityMediaAssociation" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.facebook.com/CommunityMediaAssociation</a><br>
Canstream Internet Radio & Video: <a href="http://www.canstream.co.uk/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.canstream.co.uk/</a><br>
_______________________________________________<br>
<br>
Mailing list guidelines: <a href="http://www.commedia.org.uk/about/cma-email-lists/email-list-guidelines/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.commedia.org.uk/about/cma-email-lists/email-list-guidelines/</a><br>
_______________________________________________<br>
<br>
To unsubscribe or manage your CMA-L mailing list subscription please visit:<br>
<a href="http://mailman.commedia.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/cma-l" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://mailman.commedia.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/cma-l</a><br></blockquote></div><br></div></div></div><div hspace="streak-pt-mark" style="max-height:1px"><img style="width:0px;max-height:0px;overflow:hidden" src="https://mailfoogae.appspot.com/t?sender=aYmlsbGJlc3RjbWFAZ21haWwuY29t&type=zerocontent&guid=2ed74379-c42f-49bb-99e1-28e7bcb5a1e3"><font color="#ffffff" size="1">ᐧ</font></div>