[cma-l] Joint PRS/PPL licences

Mon Jul 4 12:08:38 BST 2016

Taking up the VAT point (so feel free to skip this post if VAT leaves you cold!).

VAT; given their size I'd be amazed if they don't have someone on their staff who is a VAT expert or that they can't call on professional advisors on whether to charge VAT or not.  So at some time in the past they should have taken advice on this.

However, it would have depended on the question they asked the 'VAT man' and, believe it or not, it may well suit them to charge VAT.  For example, they may be partially exempt for VAT purpose and if you are and depending on your scheme charging VAT on as much as possible can be beneficial.

The bottom line is that it is worth challenging them why they charge VAT and when they last challenged the VAT Man why they should be charging VAT.

I'd be interested to know if anyone charged VAT by a supplier (i.e. PRS / PPL) can go straight to the 'VAT Man' and query why they are being charged VAT.  Anyone know the answer?

Richard

From: cma-l-bounces at mailman.commedia.org.uk [mailto:cma-l-bounces at mailman.commedia.org.uk] On Behalf Of Ian Hickling
Sent: 04 July 2016 08:21
To: The Community Media Association Discussion List
Subject: [cma-l] Joint PRS/PPL licences

Thanks Alex - clarity personified.
Following on from that, let's look at another aspect of the operation of the collecting societies.
Where else in the conduct of a normal business are you expected to pay for a service voluntarily and at your own instigation?
PPL and PRSfM should determine from published information - as anyone can - who is broadcasting and then should generate a conventional Invoice explaining in proper legal terms why the debt has been incurred.
I still maintain that - regardless of colloquial terminology - as they are subject to VAT, these royalty payments are "services" - not "licences".
The VAT Regulations make the distinction very clearly and they are firmly enforced as we all know.
Ian Hickling
Partner

[https://ci4.googleusercontent.com/proxy/2SkDsnIzSZgRbNnNKBSiwxiFhFQWRGV55mTjVL23fulnJpstZmYxeKrrYefY4qxiSgkMrAETld64XINLXCsujE_zI5gAsQyWeCWvHixcrNYtar3Sij4YlVBgN2NSQ-n2DsgZvrnpWZlfwCQ=s0-d-e1-ft#http://www.transplanuk.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/transplan_UK_weblogo_190x60.png]<http://www.transplanuk.com/>
Office: 016 3557 8435  (07h to 22h GTS)
Car: 075 3098 0115 (only responds when driving)
6 Horn Street, Compton, NEWBURY, RG20 6QS

________________________________
From: tlr at gairloch.co.uk<mailto:tlr at gairloch.co.uk>
To: cma-l at mailman.commedia.org.uk<mailto:cma-l at mailman.commedia.org.uk>
Date: Sun, 3 Jul 2016 13:59:17 +0100
Subject: Re: [cma-l] Joint PRS/PPL licences
Ian, the collecting societies are authorized by statute (the 1988 Copyright Act). But it any event, legal agreements granting permissions to use copyright are conventionally referred to as 'licences', whether issued by a private holder, commercial company or collecting society. A licence is a formally granted consent to do something which the licensor otherwise has the right to restrict.

I mentioned this in a posting a few days. It is in return for this statutorily granted privilege that they are subject to the legal option of a user deeming their own licence and taking recourse to the Copyright Tribunal.

NB, and strictly playing devil's advocate, they are not commercial organizations any more than the typical CR station, just a lot bigger and less reputable in their behaviour. They are not-for-profit membership societies incorporated as Companies Limited by Guarantee.

See also PPL's constitution at http://www.ppluk.com/Documents/Code%20of%20Conduct%20PDFs/PPL%20Articles%20of%20Association%202016.pdf

Alex

From: cma-l-bounces at mailman.commedia.org.uk<mailto:cma-l-bounces at mailman.commedia.org.uk> [mailto:cma-l-bounces at mailman.commedia.org.uk] On Behalf Of Ian Hickling
Sent: 02 July 2016 14:53
To: The Community Media Association Discussion List <cma-l at mailman.commedia.org.uk<mailto:cma-l at mailman.commedia.org.uk>>; Bill Best <bill.best at commedia.org.uk<mailto:bill.best at commedia.org.uk>>; colin at susyradio.com<mailto:colin at susyradio.com>
Subject: [cma-l] Joint PRS/PPL licences

As ever - thanks Bill for taking the trouble to spell out the situation.
I would however - at the risk of invoking terminal boredom on the part of some of our friends - query just one word - "licence!".
These are not licences.
A licence is permission issued by a Statutory Authority to authorise the Licensee to perform a specific function.
Ofcom is precisely that, H M Government's appointed Broadcast Regulator - and in the case of an RSL issues the BA (Broadcasting Act) Licence at £30 per day and the WTA (Wireless Telegraphy Act) Licence  at £40 per day.

[https://ipmcdn.avast.com/images/2016/icons/icon-envelope-tick-round-orange_184x116-v1.png]<https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient>

Virus-free. www.avast.com<https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient>

_______________________________________________ Reply - cma-l at commedia.org.uk<mailto:cma-l at commedia.org.uk> The cma-l mailing list is a members' service provided by the Community Media Association - http://www.commedia.org.uk Twitter: http://twitter.com/community_media http://www.facebook.com/CommunityMediaAssociation Canstream Internet Radio & Video: http://www.canstream.co.uk/ _______________________________________________ Mailing list guidelines: http://www.commedia.org.uk/about/cma-email-lists/email-list-guidelines/ _______________________________________________ To unsubscribe or manage your CMA-L mailing list subscription please visit: http://mailman.commedia.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/cma-l
The information in this email is confidential and may be privileged. It is for use by the addressee only. If you are not the addressee or if this email is sent to you in error, please let us know by return and delete the email from your computer. You may not copy it, or use its contents or disclose them to another person. No liability is accepted for viruses and it is your responsibility to scan any attachments.
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mailman.commedia.org.uk/pipermail/cma-l/attachments/20160704/ff7ab635/attachment.html>