[cma-l] Joint PRS/PPL licences

Fri Jul 1 14:48:58 BST 2016

Alex / Ian and All

Looks to me like yet another classic example of the likes of our sector
being bullied around by the big whigs and the heavyweights hmm ? David and
Goliath indeed .. and we know what happened there.

I'm glad all of this has been brought up because the fact of the matter is
that we are nearly 250 strong and the correct and proper way of looking at
this is that by right if they kick one everyone should limp. The bully boys
are actually taking on the CMA plus another 250.

God forbid I hope it never comes to that as there is no need ... but sadly,
one word that has become apparent to me over the last fourteen years is
'''unreasonable''' and it has popped up again in these exchanges.

Somebody/Anybody please enlighten me on what is '''unreasonable''' for
charitable / not-for-profit Community Groups to have a '''reasonable/fair'''
FIXED FEE payable once a year with nothing to report, as by reporting it
doesn't make the slightest bit of a difference because it is exactly what it
says on the Can 'a fixed fee' and at the end of the year we get a big zero.

Just take an average, knock a bit off because it is a one stop shop so
include the internet within it and hey presto everyone is a happy Bunny. Of
course some might be a hundred quid adrift whereas some others might be a
hundred quid in pocket .. But that's life isn't it ??

For Petes sake, why do we have to make everything complicated ? I simply
don't get it ?

I repeat :-

One licence covering FM and Internet which included DAB if we get it (this
covers both PRS/PPL)

Hovering around the 2000 mark tops

Fixed

No reporting as the report is nothing to report and has no bearing because
the end result for all 250 Stations come the end of the Financial Year is
not a Pot to pittle in.

This isn't rocket science, it is easy peezy

Have a good weekend everyone, it's a busy one for us out and about in the
Community (and the rain) :-) LOL

Nick H Dumpty / Chairman of the UK Banging head against a wall society

  _____  

From: cma-l-bounces at mailman.commedia.org.uk
[mailto:cma-l-bounces at mailman.commedia.org.uk] On Behalf Of Two Lochs Radio
Sent: 01 July 2016 11:44
To: The Community Media Association Discussion List
Subject: Re: [cma-l] Joint PRS/PPL licences

It's embodied in the Copyright Acts Ian. This has all been rehearsed at
great length in past discussions on CMA-L.

In a nutshell the law says that in return for the privilege of being a
statutorily recognized 'collecting society' they are obliged to offer
suitable and reasonable licences to anyone who wishes to use the copyright
holdings of their members'.

The law also provides for any would-be copyright user who feels an
appropriate and fair licence is not being offered to deem their own licence
terms for the time being, but with the obligation then to make an
application to the copyright tribunal for it to determine what would be fair
terms. 

And that's where the problem lies - the Copyright tribunal is essentially a
court process with the same sorts of potential costs and legal procedures as
a court of law, and in my view this essentially denies justice to small
bodies without the financial resources to risk engaging in the process. PPL
also has a history of deliberately racking up unnecessarily large legal
costs at tribunal (which could fall on the appelant regardless of who wins
the underlying case). 

PPL relies heavily upon this 'David and Goliath' position to impose
burdensome licences, comforted by the knowledge that none of us (nor would
appear the CMA) has the stomach or financial backing for such a fight.

The tribunal decision on which the current tariffs are based was the result
of the last major case brought before the tribunal by the (then) Association
of independent Radio Companies, many years ago and long before
not-for-profit radio was envisaged. It did *not* incidentally include any
provision for a minimum fee to be levied.

Alex

On 30 June 2016 at 22:21 Ian Hickling <transplanfm at hotmail.com> wrote:

That's surprising - they were always traditionally at daggers drawn.

But it still doesn't answer two points:
1 - Exactly where in Law dies it require broadcasters to pay these two
private organisations a fee that they determine between them?
2 - If it is a firm legal requirement - why doesn't Ofcom include it as an
integral part of the mandatory licence fee structure?
My feeling is that the answer to the second point determines the first
point.

Ian Hickling

Partner

 <http://www.transplanuk.com/> 

Office: 016 3557 8435  (07h to 22h GTS)

Car: 075 3098 0115 (only responds when driving)

6 Horn Street, Compton, NEWBURY, RG20 6QS

  _____  

From: tlr at gairloch.co.uk
To: cma-l at mailman.commedia.org.uk
Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2016 11:54:39 +0100
Subject: [cma-l] Joint PRS/PPL licences

We received an interesting letter today from PPL giving notice of
termination of our current licence on 31 Dec because they are proposing to
come up with a joint PPL/PRS licence for community radio from that date.

This should make things easier for everyone and reduce the admin burden,
which is good news, and I guess will be generally welcomed.

The letter says PPL and PRS will be consulting with the sector over the plan
- I would urge CMA and anyone else able to respond to press for the new
minimum fee to be no more than the present minimum fee of either one of the
two bodies.

It seems to me if the new system will reduce their admin costs, there should
be no need for more than the equivalent of one current minimum fee to cover
that, especially as no doubt nowadays more of the admin is done at low cost
by IT than it used to be, rather than an army of clerks.

Alex

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