[cma-l] cma-l Digest, Vol 92, Issue 15

Fri Dec 2 16:36:05 GMT 2016

Few currently broadcasting 'well established' pirates in the list I see - good luck to all.

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Today's Topics:

   1.  London Community Radio Licene applicants (Ian Hickling)
   2. Re:  PPL & PRS for Music Joint Licence for Community Radio
      (Ian Hickling)

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Message: 1
Date: Fri, 2 Dec 2016 14:57:45 +0000
From: Ian Hickling <transplanfm at hotmail.com>
To: Donald Mack <donald at donaldmack.co.uk>, "The Community Media
AssociationDiscussion List" <cma-l at mailman.commedia.org.uk>
Subject: [cma-l] London Community Radio Licene applicants
Message-ID:
<MM1P123MB0779D43D17571E7973677F14AD8E0 at MM1P123MB0779.GBRP123.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

it was placed on their website here:

https://www.ofcom.org.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0033/93849/Region-10-London-inside-M25.pdf

but apparently wasn't included an any of their regular Bulletins.
I posted this on FB a few days ago before  Radio Today found it.

Ian Hickling

Partner

[https://ci4.googleusercontent.com/proxy/2SkDsnIzSZgRbNnNKBSiwxiFhFQWRGV55mTjVL23fulnJpstZmYxeKrrYefY4qxiSgkMrAETld64XINLXCsujE_zI5gAsQyWeCWvHixcrNYtar3Sij4YlVBgN2NSQ-n2DsgZvrnpWZlfwCQ=s0-d-e1-ft#http://www.transplanuk.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/transplan_UK_weblogo_190x60.png]<http://www.transplanuk.com/>

Office: 016 3557 8435  (07h to 22h GTS)

Car: 075 3098 0115 (only responds when driving)

6 Horn Street, Compton, NEWBURY, RG20 6QS

________________________________
From: cma-l-bounces at mailman.commedia.org.uk <cma-l-bounces at mailman.commedia.org.uk> on behalf of Donald Mack <donald at donaldmack.co.uk>
Sent: 02 December 2016 14:05
To: The Community Media Association Discussion List
Subject: [cma-l] London Community Radio License applicants

For some reason, Ofcom has not, yet, published the list. However, Radio Today published it earlier this week.

http://radiotoday.co.uk/2016/11/21-groups-apply-for-london-radio-licences/

21 groups apply for London radio licences

A total of 21 groups have applied to operate a community radio station in London and other areas within the M25.

They include a number of specialist music services, including Mi-Soul, House FM, Greekbeat Radio, and Hot Digital Radio which plays the 'finest in Ghanaian Music'.

There are a number of proposals to run local services, such as Wandsworth Radio for the London Borough of Wandsworth, Starpoint FM for the East London Boroughs of Tower Hamlets and Newham, and Radio Harrow.

Other applicants include Zone One Radio - community radio for central London, Fusion FM, Flames Radio and AIMS FM in Hounslow.

See the full list below. Ofcom is expected to announce which groups will be awarded a licence in the new year.

AIMS FM (Hounslow, West London)

Danaq FM (Gants Hill/Ilford, and London Boroughs of Redbridge, Newham and Waltham Forest)

Flames Radio (London Boroughs of Hackney, Waltham Forest, Tower Hamlets and Newham)
Website: www.Flamesradioradio.co.uk

Flex FM (London Boroughs of Merton, Wandsworth, Sutton, Croydon and KingstonUpon-Thames)
Website: www.flexfm.co.uk

Fusion FM (London: from Edmonton in the north, to Woolwich in the East, Streatham in the South and Ealing in the West)
Website: www.mediatechnique.co.uk

Greek Beat Radio (North London: Southgate and surrounding areas of Palmers Green, Oakwood, Cockfosters, Bounds Green and Wood Green)
Website: www.GreekBeatRadio.com

Hot Digital Online (London Borough of Newham, East London)
Website: www.hotdigitalradio.com

House FM (London Boroughs of Hackney, Newham, Tower Hamlets and Waltham Forest)
Website: www.housefm.net

Krystal FM (Brixton, Clapham, Tulse Hill, Streatham and surrounding areas within the London Borough of Lambeth)
Website: www.krystalfmradio.com

Maritime Radio (London Borough of Greenwich)
Website: www.maritimeradio.london

Metropol Radio (London Boroughs of Hackney, Haringey and Enfield)
Website: www.metropolradio.com

Mi-Soul (London Boroughs of Lewisham, Southwark, Lambeth and Greenwich.)
Website: www.mi-soul.com

New Generation Radio (London Borough of Newham)
Website: www.newgenerationshow.com

Nomad Radio (London Borough of Hammersmith and Fulham)
Website: www.nomadradio.co.uk

Quasar (London Boroughs within the M25)
Website: www.quasarradio.uk

Radio Harrow (London Borough of Harrow)
Website: www.radioharrow.org

Radio Minhaj (London Borough of Newham)

Rainbow Radio (London Boroughs of Southwark, Lambeth, Lewisham, west Greenwich and part of Wandsworth)
Website: www.rainbowradio.co.uk

Starpoint FM (East London: London Boroughs of Tower Hamlets and Newham)
Website: http://www.starpointradio.co.uk/

Wandsworth Radio (London Borough of Wandsworth)
Website: www.WandsworthRadio.com

ZoneOneRadio (Central London - Transport for London's 'zone 1')
Website: www.zone1radio.com
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Message: 2
Date: Fri, 2 Dec 2016 15:44:37 +0000
From: Ian Hickling <transplanfm at hotmail.com>
To: Canalside's The Thread <office at thethread.org.uk>, "The Community
MediaAssociation Discussion List" <cma-l at mailman.commedia.org.uk>,
"martin at martinsteers.co.uk" <martin at martinsteers.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [cma-l] PPL & PRS for Music Joint Licence for Community
Radio
Message-ID:
<MM1P123MB07792749B6CB55761F3F6DA2AD8E0 at MM1P123MB0779.GBRP123.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"

So Martin - the message appears  to be that you have to be very rich to get justice from such organisations.
Contrast this with what we've been able to achieve with Ofcom - an Agency of H M Government - by careful research and reasoned argument - without having to resort to paying any fees to anyone.
Is there a lesson to be learned there I wonder?

Ian Hickling

Partner

[https://ci4.googleusercontent.com/proxy/2SkDsnIzSZgRbNnNKBSiwxiFhFQWRGV55mTjVL23fulnJpstZmYxeKrrYefY4qxiSgkMrAETld64XINLXCsujE_zI5gAsQyWeCWvHixcrNYtar3Sij4YlVBgN2NSQ-n2DsgZvrnpWZlfwCQ=s0-d-e1-ft#http://www.transplanuk.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/transplan_UK_weblogo_190x60.png]<http://www.transplanuk.com/>

Office: 016 3557 8435  (07h to 22h GTS)

Car: 075 3098 0115 (only responds when driving)

6 Horn Street, Compton, NEWBURY, RG20 6QS

________________________________
From: cma-l-bounces at mailman.commedia.org.uk <cma-l-bounces at mailman.commedia.org.uk> on behalf of Martin Steers <martin at martinsteers.co.uk>
Sent: 02 December 2016 14:55:42
To: Canalside's The Thread; The Community Media Association Discussion List
Subject: Re: [cma-l] PPL & PRS for Music Joint Licence for Community Radio

Dear all,

The CMA has continued to represent the sector and lobby hard for better terms etc from PPL & PRS, we have won some concessions with the reduced fees for CR stations who want to simulcast DAB & CR FM/AM. (I think from memory a saving of ?500 a year).. and there are also other areas and work that still needs to be done as far as I am concerned (RSL fees, SSDAB for CR/Not for Profits etc).

However other than representation and lobbying as the CMA currently are doing, I am not sure what else the organisation can do that is responsible and legal.

The CMA couldnt condone or recommend a boycott of fees or anything else that could get stations or the CMA into legal hot water, nor can they engage legal advice without a "warchest".

If the sector wants to come together and put up some money to consider taking PPL/PRS to copyright tribunal then I am sure the CMA could help coordinate the effort and bring it all together, but I suspect we would need at least ?10k just to engage a firm to do some ground work.. and the sector could be looking at tens if not hundreds of thousands of pounds to fully take the case. Not to mention I think the looser pays all the costs dont they? so that would need to be budgeted for.

As ever I would recommend stations consider the situation, evaluate your numbers / finances, what counts on NBR etc I suspect 95% of stations would only pay the minimal fees and if you need someone else to check your numbers I am sure the office or myself would be more than happy.

Martin

On 2 December 2016 at 14:36, Canalside's The Thread <office at thethread.org.uk<mailto:office at thethread.org.uk>> wrote:
Good Heavens

I can have field day on this discussion ???I?m just a bit busy at the moment but I?ll sink my teeth into it when I get five mins.

Nick Dumpty

From: cma-l-bounces at mailman.commedia.org.uk<mailto:cma-l-bounces at mailman.commedia.org.uk> [mailto:cma-l-bounces at mailman.commedia.org.uk<mailto:cma-l-bounces at mailman.commedia.org.uk>] On Behalf Of tlr at gairloch.co.uk<mailto:tlr at gairloch.co.uk>
Sent: 02 December 2016 12:20

To: The Community Media Association Discussion List <cma-l at mailman.commedia.org.uk<mailto:cma-l at mailman.commedia.org.uk>>
Subject: Re: [cma-l] PPL & PRS for Music Joint Licence for Community Radio

That's a nice thought, but a very simplistic approach Pippa.

Your advice is probably good for a station that is allowed to take advertising and has a population of, say, 10,000 or more to go at. But it's not so easy for a station serving a huge area with a population of under 3,000. I have no problem with payment of reasonable royalties, but the payment should be better related to the value of the rights being granted.

Under the present system, a small station that can't feasibly generate more than, say, ?10,000 in broadcast revenue pays more than 15% of its revenue in PPL/PRS royalties (thanks to the effect of minimum fees), whereas a station in a more populated area that is able to raise, say, ?50,000 a year, and has a much larger pool of potential volunteers available, pays around 3%.

There are other unjustified anomalies - such as if you add an FM relay that doubles your potential audience, there is no direct additional charge, but if you add a DAB transmitter serving fewer people than your existing FM transmitter you do pay extra.

Alex
On 02 December 2016 at 11:47 Pippa at Curly Radio <pippa at curlyradio.com<mailto:pippa at curlyradio.com>> wrote:
Alternatively we can all stop wasting valuable time and energy in fighting the system.  Instead, focus on developing brilliant locally focused programmes which engage and build your audience.  That way you will have advertisers and sponsors lined up who will cover the cost of your licences.

It?s also much more fun [Smile]

Happy Friday everyone.
Pippa

From: Canalside's The Thread
Sent: Friday, December 2, 2016 11:21 AM
To: 'The Community Media Association Discussion List'
Subject: Re: [cma-l] PPL & PRS for Music Joint Licence for Community Radio

Dear All

I suggested to PRS/PPL back in 2011 that would it not make sense for all concerned to have :-

1)      One collection point

2)      One fee covering everything

3)      One fee (be it either a minimum fee or an average fee)

Like quite a lot of my suggestions over the years, they were dismissed and laughed at. Very odd though that 2 / 3 / 4 / 5 years later down the line we always end regurgitating them and tagging them with ??ah, that?s not a bad idea??    or actually implementing them full stop. Remember that most do actually agree but fall under the category of the ?silent majority?

If you would like me to give you a list of those observations, pointers etc    I can do ---- I?m up to 15 at the moment on my list, which is exactly the same number as my ??well I told you so?s??

Best if we get to the nitty gritty though

We have to face up to the fact that in all changes of things and tweaks to things some folk will be slightly better off and some will be slightly worse off (that?s life) ?????. But alas ----- unless we start working as a team and a fraternity we will forever be going around in circles and being picked off one by one and walked on by the authorities.

I hope at the AGM this year we actually walk out of the place at 5:30pm with a clear vision as to     what works, what doesn?t work, what we have concerns about, and most importantly what are we going to do about it, as whinging for the next 14 Years (me included) is not acceptable. I would also hope that we stop being nicey nicey all the time and face up to the fact that sometimes sadly we have to be controversial and we have to say the things that are maybe not pleasant.

I?m afraid with this PRS/PPL malarkey it does drop on my ??well I told you so list??           unless I have missed something, we haven?t really gained anything ???   or that?s how it seems.

I hear what Bill is saying and there are some changes to the DAB malarkey      however, the truth is, the majority of us couldn?t even afford a Yogurt Carton and a piece of string, let alone DAB ?? so it?s a none starter.

NBR or whatever you call it in relation to Community Radio    HAS TO GO BON VOYAGE / DUMP IT !    it rubs against everything we stand for, I have been saying this since day dot. We (Canalside) do not fill this form in as I refuse to do so. I suggest everyone else (all 270) do exactly the same. It isn?t NET it is GROSS ????. And Gross has no bearing on what we do.

We (Community Radio) are charitable, With some actually fully fledged charities, all not-for-profit and the rules that we operate under (or is that Straight-Jacket?) means we do exactly what it says on the Can/Tin.

With this in mind (I repeat) come the end of the financial year be that in our case November but others maybe April the end result is = not a Pot to Pee in. What do PRS/PPL/DCMS etc not understand about that ??  it seems quite simple to grasp.

Our report is NOTHING TO REPORT apart from the fact on average we play 9 songs per-hour. If that changes we will inform PRS/PPL    we shouldn?t have to keep informing them every 12 Months.

Come November our Pockets are empty.

I didn?t really fill the consultation in for a number of reasons :-

1)      They already know my/our thoughts on this as I have told them directly on at least 20 occasions since 2008

2)      It isn?t a consultation really coz the folk at the other end aren?t reading it, nor are they listening

3)      The Agenda (if we are being honest with each other) couldn?t really give a flying cactus about us, it was more for making things easier for PRS/PPL          not actually a crime, but hey, can we not work together on this please ?

4)      And finally --- when Lucy and Laura (who are two lovely people may I add) were in Birmingham, the whole exercise was pointless. Just like all the other nonsenses    ie:- BBC man etc etc     we sit for an hour being told what the rules are (we already know the rules)(in fact I know them better than the authorities)    they tell more small print, yet again what we already know and then hey presto we get to Bingo time and we?ve run out of time because someone has a Train to catch. This is NOT a consultation, it is a stitch up. As long as we tip toe and pussyfoot along with it we will for ever be on the receiving end.

My suggestion is a couple of Grand (?1600 - ?2000) for the LOT ???.. this includes the FM and Internet for both and in our case here at Canalside ? if we wish to run a small 100/200 stream training facility for the youngsters that gets chucked in for free. We make no money from this whatsoever but they charge us. We feel so strongly about it that we will possibly be stopping the payments now as this consultation seems to have achieved not much at all.

Finally, there is NO REPORTING as there is nothing to report. When we have paid all of our bills we end up with not a sausage and then we start afresh the following year.

This is all plain sailing and common sense to me ?.. trouble is when Community Radio started Common sense went out the window.

Absolutely finally I would like to put my suggestion forward and ask if the CMA and Members will back it. If not, then that?s fine, but a word of warning ---- you/we are now at a crossroads, get some fire in your bellies (take note) or else Community Radio in the next number of years in the main will start to fade away, and that would be a travesty after all the hard graft we have each put in.

Obviously, those just on T?internet would pay about ?600 quid-dish ??

Just done the Maths, and as you know I?m not very good at Maths (nor English LOL)     and to my calculation 270 x ?2000 = ?540,000 unless I have the decimal point in the wrong place (sorry if I have got this wrong)                    that?s not a bad little guaranteed tickle though for Chrimbo

Thank you

H Dumpty / Doormat FM

From: cma-l-bounces at mailman.commedia.org.uk<mailto:cma-l-bounces at mailman.commedia.org.uk> [mailto:cma-l-bounces at mailman.commedia.org.uk] On Behalf Of Ian Hickling
Sent: 01 December 2016 17:17
To: The Community Media Association Discussion List <cma-l at mailman.commedia.org.uk<mailto:cma-l at mailman.commedia.org.uk>>
Subject: Re: [cma-l] PPL & PRS for Music Joint Licence for Community Radio

That's Stanford University and US law - no relevance over here fortunately.

Ian Hickling

Partner

[https://ci4.googleusercontent.com/proxy/2SkDsnIzSZgRbNnNKBSiwxiFhFQWRGV55mTjVL23fulnJpstZmYxeKrrYefY4qxiSgkMrAETld64XINLXCsujE_zI5gAsQyWeCWvHixcrNYtar3Sij4YlVBgN2NSQ-n2DsgZvrnpWZlfwCQ=s0-d-e1-ft#http://www.transplanuk.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/transplan_UK_weblogo_190x60.png]<http://www.transplanuk.com/>

Office: 016 3557 8435  (07h to 22h GTS)

Car: 075 3098 0115 (only responds when driving)

6 Horn Street, Compton, NEWBURY, RG20 6QS

________________________________

From: cma-l-bounces at mailman.commedia.org.uk<mailto:cma-l-bounces at mailman.commedia.org.uk> <cma-l-bounces at mailman.commedia.org.uk<mailto:cma-l-bounces at mailman.commedia.org.uk>> on behalf of Tony Bailey <ravensound at pilgrimsound.co.uk<mailto:ravensound at pilgrimsound.co.uk>>
Sent: 01 December 2016 16:39:26
To: cma-l at mailman.commedia.org.uk<mailto:cma-l at mailman.commedia.org.uk>
Subject: Re: [cma-l] PPL & PRS for Music Joint Licence for Community Radio

The term "licence" or "license" is used by an authority but it has also been used to give rights under an agreement:

http://fairuse.stanford.edu/overview/introduction/permission-tools-licenses-and-releases/

Tony Bailey

On 01/12/16 14:03, Ian Hickling wrote:

That's very informative - thank you.

But they've left out (or - Heaven forbid - ignored) two important aspects of the responses to their Joint Consultation:

1 - If this is a Licence - as opposed to a Service Charge - why isn't it issued by the only Licensing Authority in the system - which is Ofcom?  PRSfM and PPL are commercial businesses - not Licensing Authorities

2 - Despite many requests - there is still no categorical statement as to why PRSfM and PPL are entitled in Law to claim these payments - and precisely where this is written in UK Legislation.

Sorry - I know I've asked this many times before - but it's something we do need to have laid before us - and by the very people who are making these far-reaching demands.

My feeling is that broadcasters large and small who part with their hard-earned cash before being happy with the answers are rather unwise.

This isn't going to go away.
It makes no odds to us - we don't pay these charges - it's you out there, our friends and loyal Clients, that I'm concerned about.

Ian Hickling

Partner

Office: 016 3557 8435  (07h to 22h GTS)<http://www.transplanuk.com/>

Car: 075 3098 0115 (only responds when driving)<http://www.transplanuk.com/>

6 Horn Street, Compton, NEWBURY, RG20 6QS<http://www.transplanuk.com/>

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