[cma-l] Extending Community Radio on FM

Mon Sep 29 14:17:58 BST 2014

HANG ON A MO EVERYONE !

This did NOT happen in our case. I remember being in conversation with Ofcom
and receiving correspondence from the outset about what our (let’s use the
word) ‘clash’ might be with silk fm. As far as whinging and blubbering goes
on a scale of 1 – 10, they (silk) certain were up there with the
diddums-dooo brigade at 9/10

The fact that there were ‘restrictions’      ie:- in this area 116,000
potential audience below the 150,000 middle rate on the original categories
A, B and C    I believe put you slightly on the back foot before you start.

C / meant don’t even bother applying as the Commercial Station was operating
in an area of less than 50,000

B / meant yes, but you will have major advertising restrictions

A / meant <> OK, there will be some restrictions

IAN WRITES :-

*         Community Radio -  You choose the area and Ofcom will try to fit
you in if spectrum is available – if they can’t guarantee 25W ERP = 5Km with
no adjacent or co-channel interference they won’t license it.

The key point I make is that regardless what anyone says, I know the
timeline, the discussions and the end result. We are NOT technically
licensed for Macclesfield. We just touch the Northern tip (officially)    we
are licensed for Bollington / Prestbury / Pott Shrigley / Kerridge /
Adlington / Tytherington           this is fine, providing your service
primarily serves Sheep, Cows, Foxes, Buzzards, Hedgehogs, Badgers, Trees and
Hedgerows 

.. we wanted to licence for Macclesfield and then all the other
areas would fall under the Umbrella. We would not have got the license for
Macclesfield as the whinging and blubbering from silk was (in our opinion)
tilting the discussion towards the NO !      nudge nudge hush hush wink wink
we were tipped off that not including Macclesfield would work favourable to
being awarded the licence at our SECOND (2nd) attempt. Alas it rang true,
and we are very grateful of that.

It is all a contradiction though, as £££ sustainability often gets lobbed
into the mix, and yet :-   1) we have advertising restrictions    2) we have
transmitters of 25 watts which quite frankly you could fire a pea-shooter
further     3) they don’t let you set up where you NEED £££ to set up due to
politics.

But like I say, the rules have now changed. I/We didn’t re-write the rule
book, Ofcom did, and they did it ‘’’in favour’’’ and ‘’’for the benefit
of’’’  silk / the commercial boys                                        

So :- this means that by rights for the sake of 4 miles we ought to be
permitted now to go back to Plan A and get the licensed tweaked and changed
for OUR benefit to Macclesfield and surrounding areas. What about after 12
years having a few things done that SUIT OUR NEEDS as opposed to pandering
to the commercials and the BBC 
.

How come ?         well, one reason is so the argument of ‘’you’re not
licensed for’’ gets taken immediately out of the equation, we can then sit
down and have a grown up and sensible conversation about coverage, technical
issues and number crunching as opposed to being bogged down with the
Politics of it.

The point I make is that ‘Politics’ get thrown into the mix by the likes of
the DCMS because it is the easy opt-out / cop-out and not because it is the
right thing to do.

I seriously do think the time has come for our fraternity to start coming
together and having a one voice attack on some of the nonsense. There are
lots of Stations who could receive a little tweak to make their service
better and more sustainable without it affecting frequency interference or
commercial Stations. Then again, why worry about them, they don’t give a
flying cactus about us and never have.

These are the facts ladies and gentlemen, this isn’t a dream or a fiction
story, this actually happened, it was a reality and still is. We deal with
and live with it everyday. Real Radio nibbling and pecking at us because we
ain’t slightly high enough and we ain’t near enough to Macc. I truly believe
if we had written MACCLESFIELD on our application we would have been knocked
back. Not because of our inability to deliver but because of silk 
.. this
can never be acceptable.

Silk are now a Cheshire Station NOT a Macclesfield Station, they still play
the all things to all men though. I don’t mind that as long as we are
allowed to play the game as well. We’ll av a piece of the cake thank you !

Nick

  _____  

From: cma-l-bounces at mailman.commedia.org.uk
[mailto:cma-l-bounces at mailman.commedia.org.uk] On Behalf Of Alan Coote
Sent: 29 September 2014 12:58
To: cma-l at mailman.commedia.org.uk
Subject: Re: [cma-l] Extending Community Radio on FM

Ian we are essentially saying the same thing
 again!

The Ad-hoc I mention refers to the licensing of CR stations. As you know
they have a very different starting point from commercial stations i.e.

*         Community Radio -  You choose the area and Ofcom will try to fit
you in if spectrum is available – if they can’t guarantee 25W ERP = 5Km with
no adjacent or co-channel interference they won’t license it.

*         Commercial Radio - Ofcom find spectrum and then advertise it.
Technically they are underwriting that the station will reach a given
audience.

I maintain that changing the way Ofcom think about FM is a waste of time and
effort. Its best to concentrate on DAB.

PS I found Robert Tyler’s contribution excellent and very informative –
thank you. 

Kind Regards

Alan

 <http://www.letstalkbusinessonline.com/> Hear Alan Every Week on Let’s Talk
Business The UK’s Premier Radio Programme For Current and Future
Entrepreneurs - Now Broadcast To 4.3 Million People  

Email -  <mailto:alan.coote at 5digital.co.uk> alan.coote at 5digital.co.uk

Phone - 0800 949 6655

Mobile - 07801 518858

Twitter -  <http://www.twitter.com/TheAlanCoote> @TheAlanCoote

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The Media Production, Broadcasting and Training Company

From: Ian Hickling [mailto:transplanfm at hotmail.com] 
Sent: 27 September 2014 17:19
To: alan.coote at 5digital.co.uk; info at a-bc.co.uk;
cma-l at mailman.commedia.org.uk
Subject: Extending Community Radio on FM

Alan - I don't recognise most of the scenario you describe here as being the
UK Regulation system that we're working in today.

Protection Ratios set up by IBA and RA were adopted by the ITU 50 years ago
and are unlikely to change?
Not really indicative of any positive progress then.

In my experience Ofcom doesn't do much on an "ad hoc" basis - quite the
opposite.

Commercial operators and indeed all licensed broadcasters are more than
adequately protected in technical terms and all expect signal corruption on
occasions when it's caused by unavoidable atmospheric conditions.

Enhancement of coverage by any broadcaster is not easy - and is approached
by Ofcom on a low-priority and individual merit basis - unless of course
pressure is brought to bear.

I would think we can all quote examples of that apparently happening.

Commercial stations had power and frequency allocated in exactly the same
was as is used for Community Radio - desired coverage against regional
spectral occupancy.

Standalone or mini-mux DAB is a long way off and should not be offered as an
excuse for not dealing with the present and very real need for a seed-change
in spectrum manipulation for best efficiency.

There are scores of local stations out there which are ready to go on air
and around half of them will be refused for what appear to be insecure and
what we are told are incontestable reasons.

This is not the form of Democracy that we should expect from a UK Government
and its Agencies.

  _____  

From: alan.coote at 5digital.co.uk
To: cma-l at mailman.commedia.org.uk; info at a-bc.co.uk
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2014 14:06:28 +0100
Subject: Re: [cma-l] Community Radio on AM

The FM protection ratios were set up using a specs’ based on the selectivity
and sensitivity of radios in the 60s. The IBA, Radio Authority and Ofcom
planned licences based on their analysis of available frequencies using this
spec’. It became an ITU standard so is very unlikely to change.     

Fitting new stations on an ad-hoc basis has the danger of commercial
operators being disadvantaged through interference, however occasional. 

Picking up Nick’s point about Silk FM getting more power, this has happened
numerous times around the UK. It’s because commercial stations are licenced
to use a preallocated and cleared frequency by Ofcom. Should a licenced
station make a case that either Ofcom’s analysis was wrong, or over time the
area has changed, then Ofcom will need to reflect that by permitting changes
to the coverage.

This is of course a totally different scenario from the way community
stations start life.   

At the end of the day Ofcom is full of people whose job it is to run things
by the rules. There is absolutely no advantage to them doing otherwise. 

In my view a better baton to wave is for access to DAB via standalone
stations – here the rules aren’t even set.                

Kind Regards

Alan

 <http://www.letstalkbusinessonline.com/> Hear Alan Every Week on Let’s Talk
Business The UK’s Premier Radio Programme For Current and Future
Entrepreneurs - Now Broadcast To 4.3 Million People  

Email -  <mailto:alan.coote at 5digital.co.uk> alan.coote at 5digital.co.uk

Phone - 0800 949 6655

Mobile - 07801 518858

Twitter -  <http://www.twitter.com/TheAlanCoote> @TheAlanCoote

Web -  <http://www.5digital.co.uk/> http://www.5digital.co.uk

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The Media Production, Broadcasting and Training Company

From: cma-l-bounces at mailman.commedia.org.uk
[mailto:cma-l-bounces at mailman.commedia.org.uk] On Behalf Of Ian Hickling
Sent: 25 September 2014 08:23
To: The Community Media Association Discussion List; Associated Broadcast
Consultants
Subject: [cma-l] Community Radio on AM

I don't agree that ".....proper computerised tools are needed to do it
properly" Glyn - sorry.

Computerised tools have got us into the farce that we are currently in.

Certainly we need proper planning - but after that we need practical onsite
trials as you say with measurement and analysis.

This however is costly in terms of the equipment and manpower which Ofcom
does not have available and is not going to get funded by HMG.

So Ofcom could do it but won't.
Lots of us can do it - but Ofcom doesn't accept that concept.

  _____  

From: tlr at gairloch.co.uk
To: info at a-bc.co.uk
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2014 18:11:01 +0100
CC: cma-l at mailman.commedia.org.uk
Subject: Re: [cma-l] Community Radio on AM

I understand the 'complex scientific' side of it, but I still don't honestly
see how the map helps give any insight other than in the crudest measure of
overall density of stations. 

It shows the general density of stations and is a nice tool for browsing
stations and frequencies, but it gives no visual representation whatever of
frequencies or powers, so I don't honestly see how it gives even the vaguest
insight into the interference landscape for a station.

It could maybe take useful steps in that direction with some development.
For example if one could select a frequency or transmitter of interest and
set a filter to show only stations of that frequency, or of that frequency
plus adjacent and/or image channels it would start to give an idea of
potential for interference. Combined with perhaps a crude free space range
indication using semi-transparent overlays based on on powers and direction
templayes it might beging to give a rough feel for the interference
landscape for a given station. But as it stands I don't see how it does that
in the slightest.

Not meaning to be picky, honest - I like it for what it is, and it does give
a feel for the geographic distribution of CR stations, but it doesn't seem
to me to offer any useful insight or even vague feel for the interference
landscape.

Alex

----- Original Message ----- 

From: Associated Broadcast <mailto:info at a-bc.co.uk>  Consultants 

To: Two Lochs Radio <mailto:tlr at gairloch.co.uk>  

Cc: The Community Media Association <mailto:cma-l at mailman.commedia.org.uk>
Discussion List 

Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2014 5:37 PM

Subject: Re: [cma-l] Community Radio on AM

Absolutely right Alex - the frequency selective map would only be for
getting an "insight" or feel for the interference landscape - proper
computerised tools are needed to do it properly. 

It's complex and scientific, but this post below gives a pictorial,
non-technical insight into the "Protection Ratios" that Ofcom use, and are
one of the reasons they often say there are no frequencies available:-

http://a-bc.co.uk/ofcom-fmvhf-protection-ratios-illustrated/

Glyn

-- 
Glyn Roylance - Principal Consultant 

Associated <http://www.a-bc.co.uk/>  Broadcast Consultants

On 24 September 2014 16:58, Two Lochs Radio <tlr at gairloch.co.uk> wrote:

Hi Glynn

That's a nice map for browsing, but as far as mapping all transmitters to
allow assessment of potential interference, it surely isn't the way to go.
As you'll be well aware you need much more than a simple mapping of
potential co-channels - you have to take into account image channels and the
directional power templates of antennas at the very least, even before
thinking about the intervening terrain.  You also have to take into account
transmissions in neighbouring countries of course.

I think all that can be done far more effectively in tabular form than on a
map.

Of course, the elephant in this particular room is not in any case what
frequencies are or aren't occupied, but what parameters Ofcom applies in
assessing their potential for mutual interference - eg should a 99%
confidence level or a 90% confidence level be used, should second adjacent
channel be regarded as safe or not? Those are what make all the difference
to the assumed potential for interference between transmitters. Similarly,
is potential interference acceptable for 0.1% or 1% of the time or location?
All these parameters are really what set the technical bar as to whether or
not there are channels available.  Then of course there are strategic and
political issues, agrements for the BBC to have priority use of certain
sub-bands etc.

One thing that could be considered for releasing more community radio
frequencies is for Ofcom to reuse channels more closely on the basis of a
mutual agreement between stations that they will not complain about the
remote possibility of mutual interference less than say 1% of the time in
10% of their fringe. We have transmitters on the same frequencies just a few
miles apart, but terrain-limited with no significant mutual interference in
locations of interest, because we were able to agree not to complain about
our transmitters interfering with each other! A similar thing happens on
96.6 between Nevis Radio (Fort William) and MFR (Aviemore) in the Laggan
area half way between them. I suspect many groups would be willing to accept
a service that might be subject to a little marginal interference in some
limited locations rather thna no licence at all.

As for suggestions on the map, which is nonetheless nice to have, could I
suggest you add in the Scottish not-for-profit stations that operate as
non-profit community stations, but for historical reasons have commercial
licences (Cuillin FM, Two Lochs Radio, Lochbroom FM, Argyll FM, Oban FM,
Isles FM). That would give a more representative picture of community radio
cover in the northwest of the UK, which otherwise looks a bit empty on the
map! There are also community op-outs from MFR in the north-east.

Also for adding the Northern Ireland stations there is a batch convertor for
Irish grid references here
http://www.osi.ie/calculators/batch.asp?alias=/services/gps-services/co-ordi
nate-converter

Alex

----- Original Message ----- 

From: Associated <mailto:info at a-bc.co.uk>  Broadcast Consultants 

To: The Community Media Association <mailto:cma-l at mailman.commedia.org.uk>
Discussion List 

Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2014 2:54 PM

Subject: Re: [cma-l] Community Radio on AM

Further to Ian's update below - we recently mapped the Ofcom data for FM
CR's onto an interactive Google Map that you can browse, zoom etc.  If you
click on any site if gives the essential information. 

http://a-bc.co.uk/community-radio-station-map/

If there is interest we might do a similar map for all UK transmitters
(nearly 2000 of them) that you can filter by frequency - thus to get an
insight into co-channel interference for any station/location/frequency you
wish.  Or other variations if people have suggestions.

Regards, Glyn

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