[cma-l] National Advertising

Wed May 4 12:09:58 BST 2011

Nick

Only trying to be of service old chum...

My preference, and thus the roots of the Prove It Project, is to look at the
nature of the listening not just its size.  If we can show greater loyalty,
trust and affection that has to be valuable.  We are not 'selling' audio
wall paper - it's far more valuable than that.  We need to educate the would
be advertisers to that and so any hint of manipulation has to be avoided.
Sure, we might not show the big numbers of MegaCorp FM but we are loved by
the people that listen and they act on what they hear...  common sense
innit...?

bests

Phil

On 4 May 2011 11:59, Office - ccr-fm <office at ccr-fm.co.uk> wrote:

>  Phil
>
>
>
> You have managed to explain something in a few sentences which took me
> almost a scroll …………………. Playing devils advocate again ….. the data for the
> survey tool may have to be manipulated …………… ‘sorry’                  a
> radio station doing a reggae programme followed a programme on claiming
> benefits followed by the history of the water wheel and the local cotton and
> silk industry is NOT going to win a number crunching game.
>
>
>
> This is not nice reading I know, but it is a fact.
>
>
>
> The point I am trying to make and the question that I am asking is
> …………………….. Can Community Radio number crunch for advertising agencies etc
> whilst at the same time tick all the social gain boxes ………………….. my answer
> to this is NO ……………. But please prove me wrong.
>
>
>
> Regards
>
>
>
> Nick
>
>
>  ------------------------------
>
> *From:* cma-l-bounces at mailman.commedia.org.uk [mailto:
> cma-l-bounces at mailman.commedia.org.uk] *On Behalf Of *Phil Korbel
> *Sent:* 03 May 2011 21:49
>
> *To:* martin at martinsteers.co.uk
> *Cc:* Phil Edmonds; cma-l at mailman.commedia.org.uk
>
> *Subject:* Re: [cma-l] National Advertising
>
>
>
> Hi all
>
> just to mention that getting that 'other data' is central to the Community
> Radio Fund backed project - 'Prove It' that we're just starting with ALLFM
> and other Manchester stations.  The aim is to give stations an authoritative
> and affordable survey tool that, yes, will give 'the numbers' but also
> assess the other impacts - some of the social gain - that is delivered to
> stations' communities.
>
> We'll be putting updates on www.communityradiotoolkit.net and on CM-L -
> including a frank couple of interviews with a supportive council officers
> who want to see community radio doing more...  stay tuned...
>
> bests
>
> Phil
>
> On 1 May 2011 12:43, Martin Steers <martin at martinsteers.co.uk> wrote:
>
> Havent had chance to reply (in process of moving! yay)
>
>
>
> RAJAR should be considered but only considered. I still think that if we
> can get a trusted community radio related survey that not only provided
> numbers that can be used for advertising etc but also valuable data that the
> stations can actually use for other items (programming, grants etc)
>
>
>
> I know many different stations already commission or run their own data
> collection, but is there common methodology or has it
> been independently audited.. because if we can achieve that (or a low cost
> organisation thats willing to do it.. and the surveys) then that would
> really help.. what a national advertising organisation then does is raise
> awareness of this survey and grow trust in that data for themselves and the
> rest of the community radio sector.
>
>
>
> There seems to be some interest.. I still think a national advertising
> organisation is a viable opportunity.. and once i finish moving I might
> start the ball rolling...
>
>
>
> Martin
>
>
>
> On Fri, Apr 29, 2011 at 9:03 PM, ROBERT TYLER <bobtyler at btinternet.com>
> wrote:
>
>    Phil
>
>
>
> RAJAR is not the ideal tool unless community radio becomes a brand, ie CR
> Frome or CR Manchester 103.5fm.  Then RAJAR could pick up the ‘brand’ id as
> a sort of generic.
>
>
>
> Guessing now but perhaps 4% of listening hours could bring in £1 – £2m with
> very small cost of RAJAR and net agency commission.
>
>
>
> My thoughts are that a ‘caring package’ or ‘ECO package’ is a better
> direction, selling to advertisers that want to offset other spend for
> whatever reason.
>
>
>
> This has legs.
>
>
>
> Bob
>
>
>
> --- On *Tue, 26/4/11, Phil Edmonds <lists at philedmonds.info>* wrote:
>
>
> From: Phil Edmonds <lists at philedmonds.info>
>
>
> Subject: Re: [cma-l] National Advertising
> To: cma-l at mailman.commedia.org.uk
>
> Date: Tuesday, 26 April, 2011, 19:39
>
>
>
> Again my personal views....
>
> On 23/04/2011 20:56, ROBERT TYLER wrote:
> > In any event, all of national advertising is sold based on RAJAR data,
> > in other words, no RAJAR no interest.
>
> Just pondering - in the last RAJAR figures, 'other listening' counts for
> 6% reach.
>
> This 'other listening' consists of:
>
> Non RAJAR subscribing stations - i.e. many Digital only, Community,
> Student, Hospital and Pirate stations.
> 'Out of area' listening (i.e. if I ticked Liverpool's 'Radio City' as a
> Manchester listener I'd be in 'other listening' as I'm outside their TSA).
>
>
> Also RAJAR state that 25% of listening is via Digital Platforms.
>
> Therefore you could argue that discounting 25% of the 6% of 'other
> listening' - leaves us with Community Radio having 'the best part of' a
> 4% audience reach.
>
> Of course some Community Radio listening is via Internet - which is
> Digital in the RAJAR survey and there are many other non Community
> 'other' stations.
>
>
> The biggest, of many, blows to the statistical validity of this 4%
> figure is that there is not universal enough coverage of Community
> Radio. We are all so different that if a respondent in Town A listens to
> a Community Radio station, we can't justifiably assume that a similar
> demographic non surveyed listener in Town B listens to their local
> Community Radio station.
>
> Even if you take a margin out of the 'other listening' for listeners to
> non Rajar, non Community Radio, a 2% reach brings us in line with the
> reach of BBC 6Music - but still this is pretty dodgy ground to claim
> with any validity.. In any case in the commercial world there's only
> Premier Christian Radio, Kissmat, Buzz Asia, Gold Devon and Yorkshire
> Radio at such low reach figures (the first three being niche
> broadcasters, the last digital only and we can only assume Oldies on AM
> is not a mass market attraction in Devon.)
>
> So depending on how you spin it 2% may or may not be that 'attractive' a
> statistic.
>
> However I believe the reach of Community Radio will be greater than this
> - but a significant audience will only tune in for one or two specific
> programmes.
>
> The Rajar methodology will never work for this as the survey size is
> just many a factor (I'd argue at least hundreds times) too small to
> catch all these niche one or two hours a week listeners. BUT it is
> perfectly "statistically valid" to "gauge" the audience of large
> mainstream radio stations.
>
>
> Anyway this is some food for thought - I'm sure some Rajar gurus might
> be able to pull apart some of this argument as I don't claim to be any
> expert!
>
> Phil.
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> --
> Phil Korbel
> Director
> 0161 237 5454
>
> Radio Regen is a community, media and urban regeneration charity
> A company limited by guarantee and registered in England and Wales No.
> 3753832
> Registered office: 12 Hilton Street, Manchester, M1 1JF
> Registered Charity No. 1077763
> www.radioregen.org
> http://www.communityradiotoolkit.net/consult/radio-regen-consultancy/
>
>
>

-- 
Phil Korbel
Director
0161 237 5454

Radio Regen is a community, media and urban regeneration charity
A company limited by guarantee and registered in England and Wales No.
3753832
Registered office: 12 Hilton Street, Manchester, M1 1JF
Registered Charity No. 1077763
www.radioregen.org
http://www.communityradiotoolkit.net/consult/radio-regen-consultancy/
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