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<p><font size="-1"><font face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif">Hi all,</font></font></p>
<p><font size="-1"><font face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif">Apologies
for the delay in reply - I've been working loooong days on
Crufts (for my day job - I'm a TV vision mixer/engineer!)</font></font></p>
<p><font size="-1"><font face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif">As a
couple of people have pointed out, using CBR MP3 does remove
the uncertainty about how much space a file will take up, and
is then easily calculable. At 320kbps (unnecessarily high, but
equates roughly to using -q:a 0 when using FFMPEG to convert
to MP3), a 1-hour file will take up ~140MB. 42 days' worth is
137GB. Using WAV (44.1kHz, 16-bit stereo), you will need 595GB
of space.</font></font></p>
<p><font size="-1"><font face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif">With
regard to sensible naming strategies ('semantic naming'?) to
allow for straightforward backup to Glacier/S3/Nearline/etc.,
I've just pushed an update through that allows one to create
directories automatically, given a specific date/time format -
e.g. 'chronicle -f "%Y/%m/%d/%H_%M_%S" ' would record to the
file '2017/03/13/15_00_00.wav' when started on 13th March 2017
at 15:00:00. This is a common, standard way of achieving
date-time substitutions, often referred to as
'STRFTIME-compatible'. Separating out files into a sensible
directory structure not only makes archiving easier, but
avoids long lists of files.</font></font></p>
<p><font size="-1"><font face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif">Thanks
to everyone who's mentioned Chronicle on social media and the
like, and to James for including it in his newsletter!</font></font></p>
<p><font size="-1"><font face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif">I'm
still very much welcoming ideas and thoughts, either on here
or on GitHub - <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://github.com/calmcl1/chronicle">http://github.com/calmcl1/chronicle</a><br>
</font></font></p>
<p><font size="-1"><font face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif">As
always, more info is always available at
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://calmcl1.github.io/chronicle">http://calmcl1.github.io/chronicle</a><br>
</font></font></p>
<p><font size="-1"><font face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif">Cal<br>
</font></font></p>
<p><font size="-1"><font face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif"><br>
</font></font></p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 06/03/2017 12:25, <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:tlr@gairloch.co.uk">tlr@gairloch.co.uk</a>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:1292776803.146956.1488803130277@email.1and1.co.uk"
type="cite">
<meta charset="UTF-8">
<p>We use a similar sort of scheme. We log hourly segments of all
output at 128kbps MP3, plus wav files of all live output hours.
We do that so that we have the legal logs of all output, plus
high-quality recordings of all live material in case something
goes out that we afterwards want to re-use or save for future
re-use (eg a spontaneous interview). Of course we would get
slightly better quality using AAC but MP3 is more convenient for
various reasons.</p>
<p>The logs are streamed to a 64GB USB key, and archived as MP3
files to a mirrored pair of drives in our main file server. We
archive each show just after it has been recorded, and old files
are deleted automatically, maintaining a minimum buffer of free
space on the memory key. That means we can generally go back to
live show wave files for around 6 months, or lower quality MP3
logs forever. </p>
<p>A 4TB drive can hold about 15 years of 24x365 output at 64kbps,
so there's a good chance a drive will fail before becoming full!
For cloud storage a 1TB Dropbox account can similarly hold over
3 years worth, with the bonus that if desired it can provide
online streaming 'listen again' playback for anyone who wants.</p>
<p>In parallel with that, we run a background job on another PC
maintains 7 weeks of 64k MP3 logs of all output just as a backup
in case the main log fails or becomes inaccessible for any
reason. Overkill maybe, but comforting!</p>
<p>Alex </p>
<blockquote type="cite">On 04 March 2017 at 23:13 James Cridland
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:james@cridland.net"><james@cridland.net></a> wrote:<br>
<br>
<div dir="ltr" class="ox-90a4d1f9c3-gmail_msg">I think my only
point about file size is to answer the question "how large a
hard drive should I have?" <span style="font-size: 13px;">If
you wanted the answer - a 750GB hard drive should be enough.</span></div>
<div dir="ltr" class="ox-90a4d1f9c3-gmail_msg"><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr" class="ox-90a4d1f9c3-gmail_msg">Since this
software is there to run a legally-required service, the last
thing you want it to do is to silently fail due to a lack of
disc space.</div>
<div dir="ltr" class="ox-90a4d1f9c3-gmail_msg"><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr" class="ox-90a4d1f9c3-gmail_msg">The "never
delete" archive comment - I can't see any requirement to
stream directly to S3 (and as you say, it's virtually
impossible anyway). I'd run an hourly, daily or weekly cron
job to upload the files - which you might want to ensure are
in sensible folder structure (/2017/03/12/0400-0500.wav) so
you don't end up with an unweildy file list. Using a separate
cron job is less likely to hurt the recording process, I'm
assuming.</div>
<div dir="ltr" class="ox-90a4d1f9c3-gmail_msg"><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr" class="ox-90a4d1f9c3-gmail_msg">Transferral to
Amazon Glacier, incidentally, can be set to automatically
happen after a period of days with AWS. (For those reading
along - Glacier is an even cheaper place to dump your files,
with the drawback that if you want them, you need to request
them and they take about four hours to become available).</div>
<div dir="ltr" class="ox-90a4d1f9c3-gmail_msg"><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr" class="ox-90a4d1f9c3-gmail_msg">This is good
stuff - I'm sure that logging has been re-invented many times,
but anything that is free and simple to use (and, most
importantly, open for others to improve) is a good thing in my
book!</div>
<div dir="ltr" class="ox-90a4d1f9c3-gmail_msg"><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr" class="ox-90a4d1f9c3-gmail_msg">//j</div>
<div dir="ltr" class="ox-90a4d1f9c3-gmail_msg"><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr" class="ox-90a4d1f9c3-gmail_msg"><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr" class="ox-90a4d1f9c3-gmail_msg"><br>
</div>
<br class="ox-90a4d1f9c3-gmail_msg">
<div class="ox-90a4d1f9c3-gmail_quote ox-90a4d1f9c3-gmail_msg">
<div dir="ltr" class="ox-90a4d1f9c3-gmail_msg">On Sat, 4 Mar
2017, 19:43 Alex Gray <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:tlr@gairloch.co.uk"
class="ox-90a4d1f9c3-gmail_msg" target="_blank">tlr@gairloch.co.uk</a>>
wrote:<br class="ox-90a4d1f9c3-gmail_msg">
</div>
<blockquote>
<div dir="auto" class="ox-90a4d1f9c3-gmail_msg">If you
select fixed rate (CBR) MP3 coding, then file sizes are
pretty constant. We play out most material at 256kbps,
and an hour's programme is about 112MB, and the player's
time to run display is accurate.
<div dir="auto" class="ox-90a4d1f9c3-gmail_msg"><br
class="ox-90a4d1f9c3-gmail_msg">
</div>
<div dir="auto" class="ox-90a4d1f9c3-gmail_msg">But if
instead you select variable rate (VBR) encoding the rate
is adaptive to the material, and file length becomes
variable according to content. Also a player's time to
run display becomes only approximate, which is a big
disadvantage for studio use.</div>
<div dir="auto" class="ox-90a4d1f9c3-gmail_msg"><br
class="ox-90a4d1f9c3-gmail_msg">
</div>
<div dir="auto" class="ox-90a4d1f9c3-gmail_msg">Alex<br
class="ox-90a4d1f9c3-gmail_msg">
<div dir="auto" class="ox-90a4d1f9c3-gmail_msg"><br
class="ox-90a4d1f9c3-gmail_msg">
</div>
<div dir="auto" class="ox-90a4d1f9c3-gmail_msg">But some
people use</div>
</div>
</div>
<div class="ox-90a4d1f9c3-gmail_extra
ox-90a4d1f9c3-gmail_msg"><br
class="ox-90a4d1f9c3-gmail_msg">
<div class="ox-90a4d1f9c3-gmail_quote
ox-90a4d1f9c3-gmail_msg">On 4 Mar 2017 08:46, Tony
Bailey <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:ravensound@pilgrimsound.co.uk"
class="ox-90a4d1f9c3-gmail_msg" target="_blank">ravensound@pilgrimsound.co.uk</a>>
wrote:<br class="ox-90a4d1f9c3-gmail_msg">
<blockquote>
<div class="ox-90a4d1f9c3-gmail_msg">
<div class="ox-90a4d1f9c3-gmail_msg">Correction:
should read "mp3 files are always the same size"<br
class="ox-90a4d1f9c3-gmail_msg">
<br class="ox-90a4d1f9c3-gmail_msg">
Hello all,<br class="ox-90a4d1f9c3-gmail_msg">
<br class="ox-90a4d1f9c3-gmail_msg">
I've no idea what this thread is all about - just
one item caught my eye: file lengths - I've been
playing around with an audio chunk upload using
arecord with fixed file lengths and the mp3 files
are always the same length, the ogg files vary
according to content however.<br
class="ox-90a4d1f9c3-gmail_msg">
<br class="ox-90a4d1f9c3-gmail_msg">
Tony Bailey<br class="ox-90a4d1f9c3-gmail_msg">
<br class="ox-90a4d1f9c3-gmail_msg">
<br class="ox-90a4d1f9c3-gmail_msg">
On 03/03/17 19:58, mail wrote:<br
class="ox-90a4d1f9c3-gmail_msg">
</div>
</div>
<div class="ox-90a4d1f9c3-gmail_msg">
<div class="ox-90a4d1f9c3-gmail_msg">Hi James,<br
class="ox-90a4d1f9c3-gmail_msg">
</div>
<div class="ox-90a4d1f9c3-gmail_msg"><br
class="ox-90a4d1f9c3-gmail_msg">
</div>
<div class="ox-90a4d1f9c3-gmail_msg">Thank you!
That's really kind of you :D<br
class="ox-90a4d1f9c3-gmail_msg">
</div>
<div class="ox-90a4d1f9c3-gmail_msg"><br
class="ox-90a4d1f9c3-gmail_msg">
</div>
<div class="ox-90a4d1f9c3-gmail_msg">With regard to
#1:<br class="ox-90a4d1f9c3-gmail_msg">
</div>
<div class="ox-90a4d1f9c3-gmail_msg">Being able to
show a projected file size for a file of a given
length, channel count, bitrate, etc is fairly
straightforward for uncompressed files (such as
WAV). The default settings (16-bit, 44.1kHz,
stereo) recording for an hour will always produce
a file of ~605MB. Compressed formats, however, are
harder to predict given that the compression ratio
overall depends on the content of the audio.
Still, it shouldn't vary too much and a rough
average figure should be sufficient - just not
*perfectly* accurate.<br
class="ox-90a4d1f9c3-gmail_msg">
</div>
<div class="ox-90a4d1f9c3-gmail_msg">See <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://github.com/calmcl1/chronicle/issues/22"
class="ox-90a4d1f9c3-gmail_msg" target="_blank">https://github.com/calmcl1/chronicle/issues/22</a>.<br
class="ox-90a4d1f9c3-gmail_msg">
</div>
<div class="ox-90a4d1f9c3-gmail_msg"><br
class="ox-90a4d1f9c3-gmail_msg">
</div>
<div class="ox-90a4d1f9c3-gmail_msg">#2<br
class="ox-90a4d1f9c3-gmail_msg">
</div>
<div class="ox-90a4d1f9c3-gmail_msg">Not deleting
archives automatically is fine (see <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://github.com/calmcl1/chronicle/issues/21"
class="ox-90a4d1f9c3-gmail_msg" target="_blank">https://github.com/calmcl1/chronicle/issues/21</a>)
if you want to manage your archives directly, but
a direct upload to S3 will take a little work, as
one can't *stream* directly to S3 and must instead
upload short chunks. Not impossible, though :)<br
class="ox-90a4d1f9c3-gmail_msg">
</div>
<div class="ox-90a4d1f9c3-gmail_msg"><br
class="ox-90a4d1f9c3-gmail_msg">
</div>
<div class="ox-90a4d1f9c3-gmail_msg">Unfortunately,
a direct Glacier upload isn't possible as one must
know the *exact* file size before starting - you'd
have to wait for it to complete and then upload.<br
class="ox-90a4d1f9c3-gmail_msg">
</div>
<div class="ox-90a4d1f9c3-gmail_msg"><br
class="ox-90a4d1f9c3-gmail_msg">
</div>
<div class="ox-90a4d1f9c3-gmail_msg">Cold-storage/nearline
archiving like this would be better implemented by
logging to a given directory and then running an
automated hourly/overnight backup operation to
Glacier. I've actually got some software for that,
too, called Cupo (<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://github.com/calmcl1/cupo-backup"
class="ox-90a4d1f9c3-gmail_msg" target="_blank">github.com/calmcl1/cupo-backup</a>),
but that's still quite beta (though we do use it
for our Myriad database backups at HCR).<br
class="ox-90a4d1f9c3-gmail_msg">
</div>
<div class="ox-90a4d1f9c3-gmail_msg"><br
class="ox-90a4d1f9c3-gmail_msg">
</div>
<div class="ox-90a4d1f9c3-gmail_msg">Does this help,
or have I missed the point entirely?<br
class="ox-90a4d1f9c3-gmail_msg">
</div>
<div class="ox-90a4d1f9c3-gmail_msg"><br
class="ox-90a4d1f9c3-gmail_msg">
</div>
<div class="ox-90a4d1f9c3-gmail_msg">Cal</div>
<div class="ox-90a4d1f9c3-gmail_msg"><br
class="ox-90a4d1f9c3-gmail_msg">
</div>
<div class="ox-90a4d1f9c3-gmail_msg">
<pre class="ox-90a4d1f9c3-gmail_msg">m: 07426 437449 e: <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:mail@callum-mclean.co.uk" class="ox-90a4d1f9c3-gmail_msg" target="_blank">mail@callum-mclean.co.uk</a> w: <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://callum-mclean.co.uk/" class="ox-90a4d1f9c3-gmail_msg" target="_blank">callum-mclean.co.uk</a>
</pre>
</div>
<div class="ox-90a4d1f9c3-gmail_msg"><br
class="ox-90a4d1f9c3-gmail_msg">
</div>
<div class="ox-90a4d1f9c3-gmail_msg">
<div class="ox-90a4d1f9c3-gmail_msg">
<div class="ox-90a4d1f9c3-gmail_msg"><br
class="ox-90a4d1f9c3-gmail_msg">
</div>
<div class="ox-90a4d1f9c3-gmail_msg">---- On
Fri, 03 Mar 2017 08:08:00 +0000 <strong
class="ox-90a4d1f9c3-gmail_msg">James
Cridland <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:james@cridland.net"
class="ox-90a4d1f9c3-gmail_msg"
target="_blank"><james@cridland.net></a></strong>
wrote ----<br class="ox-90a4d1f9c3-gmail_msg">
</div>
</div>
<div class="ox-90a4d1f9c3-gmail_msg"><br
class="ox-90a4d1f9c3-gmail_msg">
</div>
<blockquote>
<div class="ox-90a4d1f9c3-gmail_msg">
<p class="ox-90a4d1f9c3-gmail_msg">This is
nice - have tweeted it and it'll be in my
newsletter.<br
class="ox-90a4d1f9c3-gmail_msg">
</p>
<p class="ox-90a4d1f9c3-gmail_msg">Suggestion
#1 is to make it clear how much space this
will take on a local drive.<br
class="ox-90a4d1f9c3-gmail_msg">
</p>
<p class="ox-90a4d1f9c3-gmail_msg">Suggestion
#2 is to archive to Amazon S3 or similar (or
point to a cron job that will do this for
you). Please don't delete archives -
instead, Amazon Glacier will be a really
cheap place to store every single second of
your radio station that was ever broadcast.
Imagine how awesome that would be.<br
class="ox-90a4d1f9c3-gmail_msg">
</p>
<p class="ox-90a4d1f9c3-gmail_msg">J<br
class="ox-90a4d1f9c3-gmail_msg">
</p>
<div class="ox-90a4d1f9c3-gmail_msg"><br
class="ox-90a4d1f9c3-gmail_msg">
</div>
<div class="ox-90a4d1f9c3-gmail_msg">
<div dir="ltr"
class="ox-90a4d1f9c3-gmail_msg">On Thu., 2
Mar. 2017, 19:19 Canalside's The Thread,
<<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:office@thethread.org.uk"
class="ox-90a4d1f9c3-gmail_msg"
target="_blank">office@thethread.org.uk</a>>
wrote:<br class="ox-90a4d1f9c3-gmail_msg">
</div>
<div class="ox-90a4d1f9c3-gmail_msg"><br
class="ox-90a4d1f9c3-gmail_msg">
</div>
</div>
<div dir="ltr" class="ox-90a4d1f9c3-gmail_msg">--
<br class="ox-90a4d1f9c3-gmail_msg">
</div>
<div class="ox-90a4d1f9c3-gmail_msg">
<div dir="ltr"
class="ox-90a4d1f9c3-gmail_msg">
<p class="ox-90a4d1f9c3-gmail_msg"><br
class="ox-90a4d1f9c3-gmail_msg">
</p>
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href="http://james.crid.land"
class="ox-90a4d1f9c3-gmail_msg"
target="_blank">http://james.crid.land</a>
- get my weekly newsletter<br
class="ox-90a4d1f9c3-gmail_msg">
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class="ox-90a4d1f9c3-gmail_msg"
target="_blank">https://media.info</a>
- the media information website<br
class="ox-90a4d1f9c3-gmail_msg">
</div>
<p class="ox-90a4d1f9c3-gmail_msg"><br
class="ox-90a4d1f9c3-gmail_msg">
</p>
<p class="ox-90a4d1f9c3-gmail_msg">Tel:
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<blockquote>
<div class="ox-90a4d1f9c3-gmail_msg">
<div class="ox-90a4d1f9c3-gmail_msg">
<p class="ox-90a4d1f9c3-gmail_msg">I’ll
get our tekky guys Simon and Blackers
onto this Cal …… might be worth a dabble
and a play. I think they’ve got bored of
our Train set now and need a new Toy to
tinker with J LOL<br
class="ox-90a4d1f9c3-gmail_msg">
</p>
<p class="ox-90a4d1f9c3-gmail_msg"> <br
class="ox-90a4d1f9c3-gmail_msg">
</p>
<p class="ox-90a4d1f9c3-gmail_msg">Nick H
Dumpty / Head Bottle Washer<br
class="ox-90a4d1f9c3-gmail_msg">
</p>
<p class="ox-90a4d1f9c3-gmail_msg">Canalside
Calamity Radio<br
class="ox-90a4d1f9c3-gmail_msg">
</p>
<p class="ox-90a4d1f9c3-gmail_msg"> <br
class="ox-90a4d1f9c3-gmail_msg">
</p>
<div class="ox-90a4d1f9c3-gmail_msg">
<div class="ox-90a4d1f9c3-gmail_msg">
<p class="ox-90a4d1f9c3-gmail_msg"><strong
class="ox-90a4d1f9c3-gmail_msg">From:</strong>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:cma-l-bounces@mailman.commedia.org.uk"
class="ox-90a4d1f9c3-gmail_msg"
target="_blank">cma-l-bounces@mailman.commedia.org.uk</a>
[mailto:<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:cma-l-bounces@mailman.commedia.org.uk"
class="ox-90a4d1f9c3-gmail_msg"
target="_blank">cma-l-bounces@mailman.commedia.org.uk</a>]
<strong
class="ox-90a4d1f9c3-gmail_msg">On
Behalf Of </strong>Cal McLean<br
class="ox-90a4d1f9c3-gmail_msg">
<strong
class="ox-90a4d1f9c3-gmail_msg">Sent:</strong>
01 March 2017 22:55</p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div class="ox-90a4d1f9c3-gmail_msg">
<div class="ox-90a4d1f9c3-gmail_msg">
<div class="ox-90a4d1f9c3-gmail_msg">
<div class="ox-90a4d1f9c3-gmail_msg">
<p class="ox-90a4d1f9c3-gmail_msg"><br
class="ox-90a4d1f9c3-gmail_msg">
<strong
class="ox-90a4d1f9c3-gmail_msg">To:</strong>
The Community Media Association
Discussion List <<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:cma-l@mailman.commedia.org.uk"
class="ox-90a4d1f9c3-gmail_msg"
target="_blank">cma-l@mailman.commedia.org.uk</a>><br
class="ox-90a4d1f9c3-gmail_msg">
<strong
class="ox-90a4d1f9c3-gmail_msg">Subject:</strong>
[cma-l] Chronicle ROT Logger Beta</p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div class="ox-90a4d1f9c3-gmail_msg">
<div class="ox-90a4d1f9c3-gmail_msg">
<div class="ox-90a4d1f9c3-gmail_msg">
<div class="ox-90a4d1f9c3-gmail_msg">
<p class="ox-90a4d1f9c3-gmail_msg"><br
class="ox-90a4d1f9c3-gmail_msg">
</p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="ox-90a4d1f9c3-gmail_msg"> <br
class="ox-90a4d1f9c3-gmail_msg">
</p>
<p class="ox-90a4d1f9c3-gmail_msg">Hi all,<br
class="ox-90a4d1f9c3-gmail_msg">
</p>
</div>
</div>
<div class="ox-90a4d1f9c3-gmail_msg">
<div class="ox-90a4d1f9c3-gmail_msg">
<p class="ox-90a4d1f9c3-gmail_msg">Forgive
the shameless-self-promotion post - I
was wondering if anyone in the CMA might
be willing to try out a bit of software
that's currently in beta (though stable
enough for production use)?<br
class="ox-90a4d1f9c3-gmail_msg">
</p>
<p class="ox-90a4d1f9c3-gmail_msg">As part
of Halton Community Radio's upgrade, I
ended up writing an ROT logger, since
none of the options available to use
particularly seemed to be good value for
what we needed. It's now running on a
hand-built computer in our production
environment!<br
class="ox-90a4d1f9c3-gmail_msg">
</p>
<p class="ox-90a4d1f9c3-gmail_msg">However,
I always feel with the bits of software
that I write that if they can be useful
to me, perhaps they can be useful to
other people. If anybody might want to
play-test a bit of logging software,
it's available at:<br
class="ox-90a4d1f9c3-gmail_msg">
</p>
<p class="ox-90a4d1f9c3-gmail_msg"><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://calmcl1.github.io/projects/chronicle"
class="ox-90a4d1f9c3-gmail_msg"
target="_blank">https://calmcl1.github.io/projects/chronicle</a><br
class="ox-90a4d1f9c3-gmail_msg">
</p>
<p class="ox-90a4d1f9c3-gmail_msg">The
link above has much more information
about the state of the software, how it
came about and what I'm intending to do
with it. It's all open source on GitHub,
so developer types are free to modify
and play as they wish :)<br
class="ox-90a4d1f9c3-gmail_msg">
</p>
<p class="ox-90a4d1f9c3-gmail_msg"><br
class="ox-90a4d1f9c3-gmail_msg">
Cal McLean</p>
<p class="ox-90a4d1f9c3-gmail_msg"><strong
class="ox-90a4d1f9c3-gmail_msg">Head
Technician<br
class="ox-90a4d1f9c3-gmail_msg">
</strong>Halton Community Radio</p>
</div>
</div>
<div class="ox-90a4d1f9c3-gmail_msg">_______________________________________________<br
class="ox-90a4d1f9c3-gmail_msg">
</div>
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<pre class="ox-90a4d1f9c3-gmail_msg">_______________________________________________
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<br class="ox-90a4d1f9c3-gmail_msg">
<pre class="ox-90a4d1f9c3-gmail_msg">--
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