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<p><br>
I would concur with Alex and Paul.<br>
I know them both to be shrewd and effective operators in this small and rather odd business sector.<br>
Far too many people running small businesses are frightened of VAT - and a lot of consumers look on it as an imposition and try their hardest to avoid it.<br>
It's our own fault - we take great pains to follow a system that requires us to show it as an addition - when logically it should be shown as included and the amount taken noted in the small print as happens in your supermarket grocery bill for instance.<br>
People who are registered know how much can be offset from a bill.</p>
<p>To people who are not it's irrelevant.</p>
<p>We've totally legally paid very little nett VAT over 14 years because we take care to claim back everything we can.<br>
It's a very wise business move and if nothing else makes sure you regularly keep good sound records.</p>
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<div id="divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr"><font face="Calibri, sans-serif" color="#000000" style="font-size:11pt"><b>From:</b> cma-l-bounces@mailman.commedia.org.uk <cma-l-bounces@mailman.commedia.org.uk> on behalf of Alex Gray, Two Lochs Radio <tlr@gairloch.co.uk><br>
<b>Sent:</b> 05 January 2017 17:46<br>
<b>To:</b> 'The Community Media Association Discussion List'<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [cma-l] PRS, PPL and VAT</font>
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<span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif; color:#1F497D">I don’t think there are many stations that don’t have some form of business activity, but yes Shane, if it is a wholly exempt operation with no trading activity then you can’t register.</span></p>
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<span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif; color:#1F497D"> </span></p>
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<span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif; color:#1F497D">HMRC will of course try to reject an application if they think they can avoid registering a business that they suspect might end up being a net recipient of VAT refunds, but as
long as you carry on some sort of trading/business activity, even a small one, and whether or not for profit, such as sometimes charging for training, selling adverts (including on your website, which any station can do), renting out studio time etc, then
they have to accept a registration.</span></p>
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<span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif; color:#1F497D"> </span></p>
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<span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif; color:#1F497D">We registered before going on air and before we had started any trading, on the basis that we were planning to offer some paid-for training and charge local musicians for occasional
use of our studio facilities.</span></p>
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<span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif; color:#1F497D">Bear in mind that the definition of ‘business’ for VAT is not what you or I might think of as business. Essentially, as long as you are reasonably often supplying goods or services
in return for payment (whether in cash or kind) that is a business for VAT.</span></p>
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<span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif; color:#1F497D">Alex</span></p>
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<b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> cma-l-bounces@mailman.commedia.org.uk [mailto:cma-l-bounces@mailman.commedia.org.uk]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Shane Carey<br>
<b>Sent:</b> 05 January 2017 17:29<br>
<b>To:</b> The Community Media Association Discussion List <cma-l@mailman.commedia.org.uk><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [cma-l] PRS, PPL and VAT</span></p>
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Have just been through VAT registration with HMRC. A big problem for our sector is that many of us fall into the 'VAT exempt' category, providing education/ certain services which mean we don't have to charge it, but still have to pay it and can't reclaim it.
Not really much of an advantage for us as it goes into the treasury coffers. </p>
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<p><b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:13.5pt; font-family:"Arial",sans-serif; color:#1A1A1A">Shane Carey</span></b></p>
<p><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif; color:#1A1A1A">CEO</span></p>
<p style="margin-bottom:0cm; margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span style="font-size:9.5pt">0207 064 5506</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Arial",sans-serif; color:#535353"><br>
</span><u><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"><a href="http://www.reprezent.org.uk/" target="_blank" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;"><span style="color:#420178">reprezent.org.uk</span></a><span style="color:#420178"><br>
</span></span></u>Bussey Building, Studio C3, 133 Copeland Rd, London SE15 3SN</p>
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<p><span style="font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"> </span><a href="http://www.reprezent.org.uk/" target="_blank" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;"><span style="text-decoration:none"><img border="0" width="131" height="62" id="_x0000_i1025" style="user-select: none;" src="http://i.imgbox.com/8fVxbVU0.png"></span></a></p>
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On 5 January 2017 at 17:02, Bill Best <<a href="mailto:bill.best@commedia.org.uk" target="_blank" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;">bill.best@commedia.org.uk</a>> wrote:</p>
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Good evening</p>
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Application of VAT has nothing to do with PPL and PRS for Music. It would be an HMRC issue.</p>
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Best regards</p>
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Bill</p>
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Operations Manager</p>
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Community Media Association</p>
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<a href="http://www.commedia.org.uk" target="_blank" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;">http://www.commedia.org.uk</a></p>
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<a href="https://twitter.com/community_media" target="_blank" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;">https://twitter.com/community_media</a></p>
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<a href="https://facebook.com/CommunityMediaAssociation" target="_blank" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;">https://facebook.com/CommunityMediaAssociation</a></p>
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Canstream Internet Radio</p>
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<a href="http://www.canstream.co.uk" target="_blank" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;">http://www.canstream.co.uk</a></p>
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<a href="https://twitter.com/canstream" target="_blank" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;">https://twitter.com/canstream</a></p>
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On 5 January 2017 at 15:59, Betar Bangla Ltd <<a href="mailto:betarbangla@gmail.com" target="_blank" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;">betarbangla@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</p>
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hi everybody,</p>
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Fantasy radio should know that a lot of community radio stations are not registered for VAT due to low income. Fantasy radio might be earning a huge amount of money, and they are registered, but what about us as we can not claim back what we would pay them
as VAT. PRS and PPL should removeed VAT from their invoices and also they should refund all VAT they charged to all community radio station till today.</p>
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I beleive that CMA should take initiative to solve these with PRS and PPL in the interest of Community radio stations.</p>
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thanks</p>
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On 5 January 2017 at 14:44, fantasy office <<a href="mailto:office@fantasyradio.co.uk" target="_blank" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;">office@fantasyradio.co.uk</a>> wrote:</p>
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Good afternoon.<br>
<br>
I have tried to resist joining in - but I feel I must.<br>
<br>
I am very happy with the PRS PPL deal - it means, with a simple payment, we can play all the music in the world on our station, with no logging, returns, or other encumberance. It's a damn good deal. 80 percent of our output is music and I'm very thankful for
that. It brings us an audience, without which, we may as well all go home.<br>
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Community radio is a business - we need to pay for things so we have something to sell. It's as plain as that.<br>
Electricity, broadband, phone lines, Ofcom licence, PRS and PPL are the lifeblood of what we do. Of course, if you can get a better deal somewhere, that's good news.
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<br>
And what's the problem with VAT? Anybody with any business sense knows that if you have to pay VAT and you're registered, YOU CLAIM IT BACK. This applies to telephone, fuel, equipment and more.<br>
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When we started our first RSLs, then applied for our community licence, we just looked at the rules, did the costings and worked it out from there. It really is that simple. We took the decision and we made it work.<br>
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Please, let's concentrate on producing great radio for our listeners and it will all work out fine. Don't try to reinvent the wheel - it may not be perfect but it works pretty well.<br>
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Peace and love in 2017 to all our colleagues in CR.<br>
<br>
Phil Dawson<br>
<b>FANTASY RADIO 97FM</b><br>
Devizes,<br>
Wiltshire.</p>
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<b><span style="color:#888888">Golam M Chowdhury</span></b><span style="color:#888888"><br>
Executive Director</span></p>
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<b><span style="color:#888888">Betar Bangla Ltd.</span></b><span style="color:#888888"><br>
4-8 Sutton Street</span></p>
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<span style="color:#888888">London E1 0BB<br>
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<a href="mailto:betarbangla@gmail.com" target="_blank" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;">betarbangla@gmail.com</a><br>
020 7790 7970<br>
<a href="http://www.betarbangla.org.uk" target="_blank" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;">www.</a><a href="http://betarbangla.net" target="_blank" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;">betarbangla.net</a></span></p>
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