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<DIV>James is right, we don’t help ourselves by rehashing the same old
discussions over and over again. Not only do we give our sector a bad name
but we discourage colleagues from taking part in this page and sharing best
practice and innovation.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>My favourite example came from BayFM who asked local garages to monitor
which stations their client’s cars were tuned into. In a slight
twist, we’ve asked the Car Rental company next door to tune their vehicles into
Wycombe Sound 106.6fm. They are only too happy to oblige.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Also, a few days before Christmas we stuck a banner up opposite a big car
dealership we’ve been courting. Yesterday they called us to discuss ‘a
long term arrangement’.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>We only launched 10 weeks ago and decided to focus on our content rather
than chasing money. The money is already chasing us including a previously
unknown client who is coming in today with a large cheque.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Have confidence my friends, 2017 will be fabulous if we all believe in
ourselves and support eachother.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Happy New Year!</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Pippa</DIV>
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<DIV style="font-color: black"><B>From:</B> <A title=transplanfm@hotmail.com>Ian
Hickling</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, January 4, 2017 10:49 PM</DIV>
<DIV><B>To:</B> <A title=cma-l@mailman.commedia.org.uk>The Community Media
Association Discussion List</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>Subject:</B> Re: [cma-l] Licensing and VAT</DIV></DIV></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV></DIV>
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<P> </P>
<P>Agreed - and all the people that pay through the nose - never querying what
they're told - unfortunately seem to be more blinkered still.</P>
<P> </P>
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<DIV id=divRplyFwdMsg dir=ltr><FONT style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt" color=#000000
face="Calibri, sans-serif"><B>From:</B> cma-l-bounces@mailman.commedia.org.uk
<cma-l-bounces@mailman.commedia.org.uk> on behalf of Artisan Broadcast
(Sales) <sales@artisanbroadcast.uk><BR><B>Sent:</B> 04 January 2017
18:27:54<BR><B>To:</B> The Community Media Association Discussion
List<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [cma-l] Licensing and VAT</FONT>
<DIV> </DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr>US "licences" are not charge for mechanical rights for exactly the
promotional and prospecting reason Nick outlines. I've always found that a great
many UK 'authorities' are out to charge for everything without considering the
'potential benefit or income' of a particular arrangement that may (in turn)
generate a commission/revenue for the authority up the chain. A very blinkered
approach if you ask me.</DIV>
<DIV class=gmail_extra>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV class=gmail_signature data-smartmail="gmail_signature">
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<DIV style="FONT-SIZE: 12px" dir=ltr><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12px; FONT-FAMILY: arial,helvetica,sans-serif">Regards,<BR></SPAN><BR></DIV>
<DIV style="FONT-SIZE: 12px" dir=ltr>
<DIV style="FONT-SIZE: 12px"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12px; FONT-FAMILY: arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><B>Catie
Lake</B></SPAN></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV>
<DIV
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<DIV style="FONT-SIZE: 13px; FONT-FAMILY: arial,sans-serif"> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT-SIZE: 13px; FONT-FAMILY: arial,sans-serif">-- </DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 13px; FONT-FAMILY: arial,sans-serif; FONT-WEIGHT: normal"><IMG
src="http://www.artisanbroadcast.uk/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/2-artisan-broadcast.png"
width=448 height=44><BR clear=all>
<DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV style="FONT-SIZE: small; FONT-FAMILY: arial">Sales & Support: 0333 37
00 252 : <A style="COLOR: rgb(17,85,204)" href="http://www.artisanbroadcast.uk/"
target=_blank>http://www.artisanbroadcast.uk</A></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV>
<DIV style="FONT-WEIGHT: normal"> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT-WEIGHT: normal"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 13px; FONT-FAMILY: arial"><FONT color=#000000><B>'Artisan
Broadcast' is a brand name of Artisan Internet Limited</B></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV style="FONT-WEIGHT: normal">
<DIV style="FONT-SIZE: 13px; FONT-FAMILY: arial,sans-serif"><FONT
style="FONT-SIZE: 12px" face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif"><BR></FONT><FONT
style="FONT-SIZE: 12px" face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif">Artisan Internet
Ltd. :: Reg. No. 4577129 :: VAT No. 750 3706
48<BR></FONT><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12px; FONT-FAMILY: arial,helvetica,sans-serif">mail: 56
Kenilworth Court, Kenilworth Close, New Milton, BH25 6BN</SPAN><BR></DIV></DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 13px; FONT-FAMILY: arial,sans-serif; FONT-WEIGHT: normal"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12px; FONT-FAMILY: arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><BR></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 13px; FONT-FAMILY: arial,sans-serif; FONT-WEIGHT: normal"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12px; FONT-FAMILY: arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><BR></SPAN></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></SPAN></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV class=gmail_quote>On 4 January 2017 at 16:04, David (RadioPeople) <SPAN
dir=ltr><<A target=_blank>david@theradiopeople.co.uk</A>></SPAN>
wrote:<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE class=gmail_quote
style="PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex">Beautifully
described, Bill.<BR><BR>The analogy i’ve heard used in the past is that of the
'cornershop window' - where one pays the owner to place a card in the shop
window describing the item you have for sale. You wouldn’t expect the shop
owner to pay you for the privilege of having your card in their window.
Therefore, it goes, artists should be paying radio stations for advertising
their product (songs) in their shop window (radio).<BR><BR>However, where this
falls over is, unlike the corner shop radio stations have a quid pro quo. By
choosing to use an artist's product (songs) you are able to attract an
audience and also to be able to charge for and sell your product
(advertising). Therein lies the fundamental principle. If you’re not going to
accept, understand, acknowledge that principle then you should not be in music
radio. No one is compelled to use copyrighted music. Use music
that is not copyrighted and see what that does to your audience figures and/or
income.<BR><BR>David<BR><A href="http://theradiopeople.co.uk" rel=noreferrer
target=_blank>theradiopeople.co.uk</A><BR>
<DIV class=HOEnZb>
<DIV class=h5><BR><BR>> On 4 Jan 2017, at 15:30, Bill Best
<<A>bill.best@commedia.org.uk</A>> wrote:<BR>><BR>> Good
afternoon<BR>><BR>> Nick, you said:<BR>><BR>> > In a nutshell,
why do you have to apply for a licence to allow you to<BR>> > do
something with something that you have already paid for ???<BR>> > it’s
bonkers ! I can’t think of any other system like it
………………<BR>> > …… can you ?<BR>><BR>> Purchasing a CD does not
confer to you any rights of broadcast - for which you need a separate licence.
If you look at any CD that you own it will say on it "All rights reserved"
meaning that the original creator of the work still owns every right to the
material i.e. they have not given away the right, among others, to broadcast
the material.<BR>><BR>> An example of something similar, as you asked,
is if you buy a licence for some software that doesn't give you the right to
do anything that you like with that software such as share it. You would not
have the right to upload a copy of that software to a torrent server and
distribute that application over the Internet - which would be analogous to
webcasting a piece of music.<BR>><BR>> So, there are plenty of
precedents and analogous examples. Your TV licence does not permit you to
stream (e.g. broadcast) the content over the Internet or open up a theatre and
charge admission for people to come and watch "Strictly".<BR>><BR>> PPL
and PRS for Music were invited to last year's Community Media Conference in
order to put these quite basic misunderstandings to rest. I see that I may
have to invite them back again this year.<BR>><BR>> Best
regards<BR>><BR>> Bill<BR>> --<BR>> Operations Manager<BR>>
Community Media Association<BR>> <A href="http://www.commedia.org.uk"
rel=noreferrer target=_blank>http://www.commedia.org.uk</A><BR>> <A
href="https://twitter.com/community_media" rel=noreferrer
target=_blank>https://twitter.com/community_<WBR>media</A><BR>> <A
href="https://facebook.com/CommunityMediaAssociation" rel=noreferrer
target=_blank>https://facebook.com/<WBR>CommunityMediaAssociation</A><BR>><BR>>
Canstream Internet Radio<BR>> <A href="http://www.canstream.co.uk"
rel=noreferrer target=_blank>http://www.canstream.co.uk</A><BR>> <A
href="https://twitter.com/canstream" rel=noreferrer
target=_blank>https://twitter.com/canstream</A><BR>><BR>> On 4 January
2017 at 13:55, Canalside's The Thread <<A>office@thethread.org.uk</A>>
wrote:<BR>> I understand the legalities of it all but DISAGREE with it all
with a vengeance !<BR>><BR>> It’s nothing more than a legal money making
racket concocted up back 1912 by a few clever boffins who knew how to work a
system.<BR>><BR>><BR>><BR>> By rights, if I buy or purchase
something, then I own it, and I can do what I want with it because I own it.
If an ‘artist’ or whoever doesn’t want people to use their material then don’t
put it up for use, keep it to yourself.<BR>><BR>> Put your talent and
your material in a shop and if it is good enough folk will buy it, if it
isn’t, they won’t and that dear all is how life works. If ever there was a
classic example of cake and eat it here it is.<BR>><BR>><BR>><BR>>
If I buy a Ford Car next week and decide to open up a Taxi business, Ford
don’t charge me each time I drive it … I buy it and then I own it. If I earn
money (as in this Taxi case .. so what ?) do I have to report to
Ford every year on how much I have earned so that they can charge me 3% of it
…….<BR>><BR>><BR>><BR>> What has happened is CONVENIENTLY ‘they’
as in the powers that be have confused Performance etc with PIRACY and by
doing so they have been able to force through legislation. No doubt the ones
who forced it through originally had their fingers in the Pie and were getting
a nice tickle out of it £££ and possibly still are
…………..<BR>><BR>><BR>><BR>> I see it like this
:-<BR>><BR>><BR>><BR>> If I wish to play Elton Johns music then I
go out and purchase it on record / cd / download / spottyface / yogurt carton
and piece of string ………. Including all his albums and singles back in the 70’s
(I started buying records back in 1969) plus then cd’s, I reckon Elton has had
a good butty out of me.<BR>><BR>> I happen to work in an industry where
I can then showcase (for Elton) his work in the hope that perhaps others will
purchase his talent. In otherwords we are all happy bunnies as it benefits us
as well. Please don’t be distracted or foget though by the fact we have
already paid for it.<BR>><BR>><BR>><BR>> Elton can then pay who he
wishes for helping him write a song or play spoons on one of his
songs.<BR>><BR>><BR>><BR>> If Joe Public go out and buy his
material he makes money, if people don’t because they don’t like it then he
doesn’t make money ---- a bit like us really. If no ones listens to us and
we’re not very good, there’s no PRS/PPL safety net for us
! ie:- getting paid for doing
nothing.<BR>><BR>><BR>><BR>> If I steal Eltons talent though and
don’t pay him for his record or cd then that is breaking the law --- it is
theft.<BR>><BR>><BR>><BR>> So, to conclude ……………. Buy it, do what
you want with it because it becomes yours. If he/she doesn’t want you to buy
it, don’t do it in the first place and don’t put it up for
sale.<BR>><BR>> It’s just a money making
racket.<BR>><BR>><BR>><BR>> To rub salt in the wounds we then have
PRS/PPL coming to us official Charities / Not-for-profit
Organisations asking for reports and poking their conks into our Business. Our
Business is exactly what it says on the can – Not-for-profit so the end result
is = zero …………..also all the music on our system bar a
handful have been bought / purchased and I have a receipt for the lot going
back to 1969<BR>><BR>><BR>><BR>> It’s a complete joke and folk
have just gone along with it. Of course it is a multi-million pound circus now
so it will probably never be tweaked.<BR>><BR>><BR>><BR>> I
disagree totally with this new licence and I am unsure as to what to
do?? The idea and concept is good (something I suggested 8
years ago and was told ‘’oh we can’t do
that’’)
By applying for it and signing the form means that you are agreeing with the
terms ……… we do not agree with the terms and therefore ‘’houston we have a
problem’’
this wasn’t a consultation, it was merely yet another lipservice
exercise.<BR>><BR>> I have asked them to send me the invoice for the
year and who to pay it to, as of yet all I have received are two letters full
of gobbled gook and the usual telling me what I already
know.<BR>><BR>><BR>><BR>> We refuse as a Charity / Not-for-profit
Organisation to fill in report forms on whether a window cleaner cleans your
windows for a philanthropic thank you … I have far more important things to do
each day than work out mathematically the value of
that.<BR>><BR>><BR>><BR>> •
It’s none of Elton Johns
business
and<BR>> • What don’t they understand
about our Net being = zero ??<BR>><BR>><BR>> I am sick of banging my
head against a brick wall<BR>><BR>><BR>><BR>> In a nutshell, why
do you have to apply for a licence to allow you to do something with something
that you have already paid for ??? it’s bonkers
! I can’t think of any other system like it ……………………
can you ? I’m all ears<BR>><BR>><BR>><BR>>
Nick<BR>><BR></DIV></DIV>
<DIV class=HOEnZb>
<DIV class=h5>>
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