<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META content="text/html; charset=utf-8" http-equiv=Content-Type>
<META name=GENERATOR content="MSHTML 8.00.6001.18702">
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>Here is way I look at it.<BR><BR>Community radio
is, in effect, a business. I appreciate some may not agree with that as we are
non-profit, but a business just the same.<BR><BR>What we 'sell',
is the output of our station, be it speech or music.<BR><BR>If we were a
shop, then we would have to buy stock to sell. Stock costs. If a shop doesn't
buy stock, then it doesn't have a business.<BR><BR>In effect, the music we use,
is our 'stock'. Without stock to 'sell', we wouldn't have a product, which is
the radio station.<BR><BR>So, yes, we have to pay for our music - it is our
stock, without which we wouldn't all be here running radio
stations.<BR><BR>-Nigel-</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><BR>Eden FM Radio Ltd<BR>Office : 01786 899 101<BR>Studio: 01768 899
107<BR>Web: <A href="http://www.edenfm.co.uk">www.edenfm.co.uk</A><BR>Twitter:
@EdenFmRadio<BR>Facebook : @edenfmonline</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Mostyn Hall, Friargate, Penrith CA11 7XP<BR></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=bill.best@commedia.org.uk
href="mailto:bill.best@commedia.org.uk">Bill Best</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=cma-l@mailman.commedia.org.uk
href="mailto:cma-l@mailman.commedia.org.uk">The Community Media Association
Discussion List</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, January 04, 2017 3:30
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [cma-l] Licensing and
VAT</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr>Good afternoon
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>Nick, you said:</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>> In a nutshell, why do you have to apply for a licence to allow you
to</DIV>
<DIV>> do something with something that you have already paid for ???
</DIV>
<DIV>> it’s bonkers ! I can’t think of any other system like
it ………………</DIV>
<DIV>> …… can you ? </DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV class=gmail_extra>Purchasing a CD does not confer to you any rights of
broadcast - for which you need a separate licence. If you look at any CD that
you own it will say on it "All rights reserved" meaning that the original
creator of the work still owns every right to the material i.e. they have not
given away the right, among others, to broadcast the material.</DIV>
<DIV class=gmail_extra><BR></DIV>
<DIV class=gmail_extra>An example of something similar, as you asked, is if
you buy a licence for some software that doesn't give you the right to do
anything that you like with that software such as share it. You would not have
the right to upload a copy of that software to a torrent server and distribute
that application over the Internet - which would be analogous to webcasting a
piece of music.</DIV>
<DIV class=gmail_extra><BR></DIV>
<DIV class=gmail_extra>So, there are plenty of precedents and analogous
examples. Your TV licence does not permit you to stream (e.g. broadcast) the
content over the Internet or open up a theatre and charge admission for people
to come and watch "Strictly".</DIV>
<DIV class=gmail_extra><BR></DIV>
<DIV class=gmail_extra>PPL and PRS for Music were invited to last year's
Community Media Conference in order to put these quite basic misunderstandings
to rest. I see that I may have to invite them back again this year.</DIV>
<DIV class=gmail_extra><BR></DIV>
<DIV class=gmail_extra>Best regards</DIV>
<DIV class=gmail_extra><BR></DIV>
<DIV class=gmail_extra>Bill</DIV>
<DIV class=gmail_extra>-- <BR clear=all>
<DIV>
<DIV class=m_143226629331199404gmail_signature>
<DIV dir=ltr>
<DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr>
<DIV dir=ltr>
<DIV dir=ltr>
<DIV dir=ltr>
<DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr><SPAN>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>Operations Manager<BR></DIV>Community Media Association<BR></DIV><A
href="http://www.commedia.org.uk"
target=_blank>http://www.commedia.org.uk</A><BR></DIV>
<DIV><A href="https://twitter.com/community_media"
target=_blank>https://twitter.com/community_<WBR>media</A><BR></DIV>
<DIV><A href="https://facebook.com/CommunityMediaAssociation"
target=_blank>https://facebook.com/<WBR>CommunityMediaAssociation</A><BR><BR></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>Canstream Internet Radio<BR></DIV><A
href="http://www.canstream.co.uk"
target=_blank>http://www.canstream.co.uk</A><BR></DIV><A
href="https://twitter.com/canstream"
target=_blank>https://twitter.com/canstream</A></SPAN></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV><BR>
<DIV class=gmail_quote>On 4 January 2017 at 13:55, Canalside's The Thread
<SPAN dir=ltr><<A href="mailto:office@thethread.org.uk"
target=_blank>office@thethread.org.uk</A>></SPAN> wrote:<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-LEFT: rgb(204,204,204) 1px solid; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; PADDING-LEFT: 1ex"
class=gmail_quote>
<DIV lang=EN-GB>
<DIV class=m_143226629331199404gmail-m_-1149921466871655102WordSection1>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: calibri,sans-serif; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">I understand the
legalities of it all but DISAGREE with it all with a vengeance
!<U></U><U></U></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: calibri,sans-serif; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">It’s nothing more
than a legal money making racket concocted up back 1912 by a few clever
boffins who knew how to work a system.<U></U><U></U></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: calibri,sans-serif; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><U></U><U></U></SPAN> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: calibri,sans-serif; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">By rights, if I buy
or purchase something, then I own it, and I can do what I want with it
because I own it. If an ‘artist’ or whoever doesn’t want people to use their
material then don’t put it up for use, keep it to
yourself.<U></U><U></U></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: calibri,sans-serif; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Put your talent and
your material in a shop and if it is good enough folk will buy it, if it
isn’t, they won’t and that dear all is how life works. If ever there was a
classic example of cake and eat it here it is.<U></U><U></U></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: calibri,sans-serif; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><U></U><U></U></SPAN> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: calibri,sans-serif; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">If I buy a Ford Car
next week and decide to open up a Taxi business, Ford don’t charge me each
time I drive it … I buy it and then I own it. If I earn money (as in this
Taxi case .. so what ?) do I have to report to Ford every year
on how much I have earned so that they can charge me 3% of it
…….<U></U><U></U></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: calibri,sans-serif; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><U></U><U></U></SPAN> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: calibri,sans-serif; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">What has happened
is CONVENIENTLY ‘they’ as in the powers that be have confused Performance
etc with PIRACY and by doing so they have been able to force through
legislation. No doubt the ones who forced it through originally had their
fingers in the Pie and were getting a nice tickle out of it £££ and possibly
still are …………..<U></U><U></U></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: calibri,sans-serif; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><U></U><U></U></SPAN> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: calibri,sans-serif; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">I see it like this
:-<U></U><U></U></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: calibri,sans-serif; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><U></U><U></U></SPAN> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: calibri,sans-serif; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">If I wish to play
Elton Johns music then I go out and purchase it on record / cd / download /
spottyface / yogurt carton and piece of string ………. Including all his albums
and singles back in the 70’s (I started buying records back in 1969) plus
then cd’s, I reckon Elton has had a good butty out of me.
<U></U><U></U></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: calibri,sans-serif; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">I happen to work in
an industry where I can then showcase (for Elton) his work in the hope that
perhaps others will purchase his talent. In otherwords we are all happy
bunnies as it benefits us as well. Please don’t be distracted or foget
though by the fact we have already paid for it.<U></U><U></U></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: calibri,sans-serif; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><U></U><U></U></SPAN> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: calibri,sans-serif; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Elton can then pay
who he wishes for helping him write a song or play spoons on one of his
songs.<U></U><U></U></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: calibri,sans-serif; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><U></U><U></U></SPAN> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: calibri,sans-serif; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">If Joe Public go
out and buy his material he makes money, if people don’t because they don’t
like it then he doesn’t make money ---- a bit like us really. If no ones
listens to us and we’re not very good, there’s no PRS/PPL safety net for us
! ie:- getting paid for doing
nothing.<U></U><U></U></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: calibri,sans-serif; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><U></U><U></U></SPAN> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: calibri,sans-serif; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">If I steal Eltons
talent though and don’t pay him for his record or cd then that is breaking
the law --- it is theft.<U></U><U></U></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: calibri,sans-serif; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><U></U><U></U></SPAN> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: calibri,sans-serif; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">So, to conclude
……………. Buy it, do what you want with it because it becomes yours. If he/she
doesn’t want you to buy it, don’t do it in the first place and don’t put it
up for sale.<U></U><U></U></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: calibri,sans-serif; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">It’s just a money
making racket.<U></U><U></U></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: calibri,sans-serif; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><U></U><U></U></SPAN> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: calibri,sans-serif; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">To rub salt in the
wounds we then have PRS/PPL coming to us official
Charities / Not-for-profit Organisations asking for reports and poking their
conks into our Business. Our Business is exactly what it says on the can –
Not-for-profit so the end result is = zero
…………..also all the music on our system bar a handful
have been bought / purchased and I have a receipt for the lot going back to
1969<U></U><U></U></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: calibri,sans-serif; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><U></U><U></U></SPAN> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: calibri,sans-serif; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">It’s a complete
joke and folk have just gone along with it. Of course it is a multi-million
pound circus now so it will probably never be
tweaked.<U></U><U></U></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: calibri,sans-serif; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><U></U><U></U></SPAN> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: calibri,sans-serif; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">I disagree totally
with this new licence and I am unsure as to what to do??
The idea and concept is good (something I suggested 8
years ago and was told ‘’oh we can’t do
that’’)
By applying for it and signing the form means that you are agreeing with the
terms ……… we do not agree with the terms and therefore ‘’houston we have a
problem’’
this wasn’t a consultation, it was merely yet another lipservice
exercise.<U></U><U></U></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: calibri,sans-serif; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">I have asked them
to send me the invoice for the year and who to pay it to, as of yet all I
have received are two letters full of gobbled gook and the usual telling me
what I already know.<U></U><U></U></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: calibri,sans-serif; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><U></U><U></U></SPAN> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: calibri,sans-serif; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">We refuse as a
Charity / Not-for-profit Organisation to fill in report forms on whether a
window cleaner cleans your windows for a philanthropic thank you … I have
far more important things to do each day than work out mathematically the
value of that.<U></U><U></U></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: calibri,sans-serif; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><U></U><U></U></SPAN> </P>
<OL style="MARGIN-TOP: 0cm" type=1>
<LI style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0cm"
class=m_143226629331199404gmail-m_-1149921466871655102MsoListParagraph><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: calibri,sans-serif; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">It’s none of
Elton Johns
business
and<U></U><U></U></SPAN>
<LI style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0cm"
class=m_143226629331199404gmail-m_-1149921466871655102MsoListParagraph><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: calibri,sans-serif; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">What don’t they
understand about our Net being = zero ??<U></U><U></U></SPAN></LI></OL>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: calibri,sans-serif; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><U></U><U></U></SPAN> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: calibri,sans-serif; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">I am sick of
banging my head against a brick wall<U></U><U></U></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: calibri,sans-serif; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><U></U><U></U></SPAN> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: calibri,sans-serif; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">In a nutshell, why
do you have to apply for a licence to allow you to do something with
something that you have already paid for ??? it’s bonkers
! I can’t think of any other system like it ……………………
can you ? I’m all ears <U></U><U></U></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: calibri,sans-serif; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><U></U><U></U></SPAN> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: calibri,sans-serif; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Nick</SPAN></P></DIV></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV>
<P>
<HR>
<P></P>_______________________________________________<BR><BR>Reply -
cma-l@commedia.org.uk<BR><BR>The cma-l mailing list is a members' service
provided by the Community Media Association -
http://www.commedia.org.uk<BR>Twitter:
http://twitter.com/community_media<BR>http://www.facebook.com/CommunityMediaAssociation<BR>Canstream
Internet Radio & Video:
http://www.canstream.co.uk/<BR>_______________________________________________<BR><BR>Mailing
list guidelines:
http://www.commedia.org.uk/about/cma-email-lists/email-list-guidelines/<BR>_______________________________________________<BR><BR>To
unsubscribe or manage your CMA-L mailing list subscription please
visit:<BR>http://mailman.commedia.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/cma-l</BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>