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</head><body><p>It's just two very slightly different uses of the word 'licence' Ian - not many words in English have only one meaning. </p><p>PPL/PRS et al could call it "A document giving you permission to do something" but that would be a bit cumbersome, and as a shorthand the word 'licence' is the term generally used for the sort of contract where someone who has the right to restrict the use of some intellectual property or material grants someone else limited permission to use that material. </p><p>PPL and PRS gain the right to restrict public performances by means of contracts with the original copyright holders (performers, composers, record lables etc), and they in turn issue licences to people who wish to make use of the copyright materials. It's the term generally used across the field of intellectual property - licences to produce patented goods, to print copies of photographs etc. Failure to have an appropriate licence of this type is a civil offence requiring the rights holder to take out a civil law suit against the alleged infringer.<br></p><p>The other use of the word licence is the much narrower one relating to permission to carry on some legally restricted activity, and for which it is an offence not to have a licence issued by an authorised body. Such as a TV licence, drivers licence, lottery licence, broadcasting licence etc. Failure to have a required statutory licence is usually a criminal offence that can be dealt with by public prosecutors or fixed penalies.<br></p><p>I'm not a lawyer, but that's my broad understanding of the situation, and at the end of the day it doesn;t really matter much what they call it - they question is whether their terms of business and charges are acceptable.<br></p><p>Alex<br></p><blockquote type="cite">On 04 January 2017 at 10:04 Ian Hickling <transplanfm@hotmail.com> wrote:<br><br><div id="ox-468e5bad91-divtagdefaultwrapper" style="font-size: 12pt; color: #000000; font-family: Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;" dir="ltr"><p><br></p><p>The answer from my viewpoint Geoff is that the PRSfM and PPL payments are commercial service charges which is why they are subject to VAT at the current rate.<br> The Royalties organisations are commercial businesses, they are not Licensing Authorities as is Ofcom.</p><p>They refer to their invoice/agreement as a "Licence" whereas it fact it is not.<br> As has been pointed out recently here and e<span style="font-size: 12pt;">lsewhere, neither association has ever submitted an application to the Copyright Tribunal </span><span style="font-size: 12pt;">for a mandate under the Copyright Acts and is relying solely on its own assertion of its </span>entitlement<span style="font-size: 12pt;"> to collect revenue.<br> You may choose to make a decision as to whet</span><span style="font-size: 12pt;">her you feel  they are acting transparently and within the Law.<br> You will probably have guessed mine.</span></p><p><br></p><div id="ox-468e5bad91-Signature"><div style="line-height: 21.3px; color: #444444; background-color: #ffffff;"><p class="ox-468e5bad91-ecxMsoNormal" style="line-height: 22.72px;"><span style="font-family: Calibri; font-size: medium;"><span style="line-height: 22.72px;"><span style="line-height: 22.72px; color: #222222;">Ian Hickling</span></span></span></p></div><p class="ox-468e5bad91-ecxMsoNormal" style="line-height: 22.72px; color: #444444; background-color: #ffffff;"><span style="line-height: 22.72px; color: #222222;"><span style="font-family: Calibri; font-size: medium;">Partner</span></span><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri,sans-serif; line-height: 22.72px;"><br style="line-height: 22.72px;"> <br style="line-height: 22.72px;"> <a href="http://www.transplanuk.com/" target="_blank" style="line-height: 22.72px; color: blue;" id="ox-468e5bad91-LPNoLP"><span style="line-height: 22.72px; color: #1155cc; text-decoration: none;"><img id="ox-468e5bad91-ecx_x0000_i1025" style="line-height: 22.72px; border: none;" src="https://ci4.googleusercontent.com/proxy/2SkDsnIzSZgRbNnNKBSiwxiFhFQWRGV55mTjVL23fulnJpstZmYxeKrrYefY4qxiSgkMrAETld64XINLXCsujE_zI5gAsQyWeCWvHixcrNYtar3Sij4YlVBgN2NSQ-n2DsgZvrnpWZlfwCQ=s0-d-e1-ft#http://www.transplanuk.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/transplan_UK_weblogo_190x60.png" alt="" border="0"></span></a></span><br></p><div style="line-height: 21.3px; color: #444444; background-color: #ffffff;"><p class="ox-468e5bad91-ecxMsoNormal" style="line-height: 22.72px; font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif;"><span style="font-size: small;"><em style="line-height: 22.72px;"><span style="line-height: 22.72px; font-family: Arial,sans-serif; color: #222222;">Office: 016 3557 8435  (07h to 22h GTS)</span></em></span></p></div><div style="line-height: 21.3px; color: #444444; background-color: #ffffff;"><p class="ox-468e5bad91-ecxMsoNormal" style="line-height: 22.72px; font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif;"><span style="font-size: small;"><em style="line-height: 22.72px;"><span style="line-height: 22.72px; font-family: Arial,sans-serif; color: #222222;">Car: 075 3098 0115 (only responds when driving)</span></em></span></p></div><div style="line-height: 21.3px; color: #444444; background-color: #ffffff;"><p class="ox-468e5bad91-ecxMsoNormal" style="line-height: 22.72px; font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif;"><em style="line-height: 22.72px;"><span style="line-height: 22.72px; font-family: Arial,sans-serif; color: #222222;"><span style="font-size: small;">6 Horn Street, Compton, NEWBURY, RG20 6QS</span></span></em></p></div></div></div><hr style="display: inline-block; width: 98%;"><div id="ox-468e5bad91-divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: #000000; font-family: Calibri,sans-serif;"><strong>From:</strong> cma-l-bounces@mailman.commedia.org.uk <cma-l-bounces@mailman.commedia.org.uk> on behalf of Geoff Rogers <geoff@susyradio.com><br> <strong>Sent:</strong> 03 January 2017 23:06:54<br> <strong>To:</strong> CMA-L<br> <strong>Subject:</strong> [cma-l] Licensing and VAT</span><div> </div></div><div><div dir="ltr">This is a quick query prompted only by our recent invoice from PPL and PRS.<div><br></div><div>The above is subject to 20% VAT but is sold to us as a a 'licence' to play the artistes' repertoire. </div><div><br></div><div>However, we also pay Ofcom for a 'licence' and these are not subject to VAT.  </div><div><br></div><div>Can someone explain simply why VAT is payable on one form of licence and not the other.</div><div><br></div><div>Happy New Year to all.</div><div><br></div><div>Kind regards,</div><div><br></div><div>Geoff<br clear="all"><div><br></div>-- <br><div class="ox-468e5bad91-gmail_signature">Geoff Rogers<br> Programme Director<br> Susy Radio, Local Community Radio for Redhill and Reigate<br> On-air across Sussex and Surrey on 103.4FM NOW<br> Web: <a href="http://susyradio.com" target="_blank">susyradio.com</a> <<a href="http://www.susyradio.com" target="_blank">http://www.susyradio.com</a>><br> <br> Susy Radio Ltd. A company registered in England and Wales.<br> Registered Office: 54 Nutfield Road, Merstham, Redhill, Surrey, RH1 3EP.<br> Registered Number: 06748586<br> <br></div></div></div></div></blockquote><p><br> </p><blockquote type="cite">_______________________________________________<br><br>Reply - cma-l@commedia.org.uk<br><br>The cma-l mailing list is a members' service provided by the Community Media Association - http://www.commedia.org.uk<br>Twitter: http://twitter.com/community_media<br>http://www.facebook.com/CommunityMediaAssociation<br>Canstream Internet Radio & Video: http://www.canstream.co.uk/<br>_______________________________________________<br><br>Mailing list guidelines: http://www.commedia.org.uk/about/cma-email-lists/email-list-guidelines/<br>_______________________________________________<br><br>To unsubscribe or manage your CMA-L mailing list subscription please visit:<br>http://mailman.commedia.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/cma-l</blockquote></body></html>