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</head><body><p>I agree very much with most of what you say Neil. I have always felt that the Copyright Tribunal system is very much an effective denial of justice to anyone who doesn't have very deep pockets and a lot of money at stake. The copyright bodies, especially PPL, have a history of racking up disproportionate legal costs that they hope will either put off or severely penalize any opponents. </p><p>The inequity of situation was recognized some years back, and I believe a partial attempt was made to help by the introduction of a 'fast-track' process, but as far as I can see this works only where both parties are willing to come to a swift settlement, and the copyright bodies are generally completely intransigent in these cases.</p><p>I'm not a lawyer, but I think you are wrong on one point, however. I don't think infringement of a copyright holder's rights to control public performance is a criminal matter at all. I think only acts of counterfeiting and piracy etc are subject to criminal law, and even then in many cases business-to-business infringement cases are handled under civil law. Infringement of copyright holders' rights to authorize or prohibit public performance and broadcasting are civil infringements, so the rights holder would have to bring a civil case to seek redress.</p><p>Incidentally, some (not Ian!) may be surprised to learn that neither PPL nor PRS has ever submitted a statutory licensing scheme for approval within the terms of the Copyright Act. they have so far relied on their rights gained by exclusive contracts between them and record labels, performers and composers.</p><p>Alex</p><blockquote type="cite">On 01 December 2016 at 20:18 "Nigel Dallard (Winchester Radio)" <nigel.dallard@winchesterradio.uk> wrote:<br><br> Before I reply to Ian's questions, as this is my first post to this list, let me introduce myself...<br> <br> I'm Nigel, I'm one of the Trustees of the charity Winchester Radio, which currently provides a hospital radio service at the Royal Hampshire County Hospital (I'll leave you to guess where that is situated!), and which was awarded a community radio licence over the summer by Ofcom to serve the city of Winchester. We'll be providing a service targetting the older generation, with the intent of encouraging "active ageing", healthy living, engagement and involvement in the community, etc, etc. We're busy planning our new larger studios and raising the money to build and equip them, and buy and install a transmitter, mast and antenna at the moment. And, as we're moving into community broadcasting, we thought it only right & proper that we join the CMA, so those of you attending the AGM on the 17th, please do come and say "hello".<br> <br> And now back to the scheduled programme...<br> <br> Ian, I'd refer you to the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988 (<a class="ox-abae7becaf-moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1988/48/contents">http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1988/48/contents</a>) and in particular Section 90, entitled "Assignment and licences" (<a class="ox-abae7becaf-moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1988/48/section/90">http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1988/48/section/90</a>) and the whole of Chapter VII, entitled "Copyright Licensing" (<a class="ox-abae7becaf-moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1988/48/part/I/chapter/VII">http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1988/48/part/I/chapter/VII</a>). PRSforMusic and PPL "licensing bodies" under this legislation, and the various licenses they offer are "licensing schemes".<br> <br> I say "offer" advisedly - you are entirely within your rights not to take a licence from PRSforMusic and/or PPL, but then, unless you individually negotiated with every rights-holder (and there will be many) of every piece of music you played, you'd be committing the criminal offence of infringing copyright.<br> <br> Now you can argue (and I might join you!) that this should be a civil matter - effectively equivalent to a breach of contract - and is not serious enough to be a criminal matter for which you could, in theory, end up in prison, but the law currently says otherwise.<br> <br> Likewise, many people are surprised that, as charities, hospital radio stations - and I guess by extension community radio stations, many of which aren't charities, but are not-for-profit social enterprises - have to pay to play music. Personally, I have no issue with this in principle - donations are legally always freely given, and people can decide what causes they wish to support, and you wouldn't reasonably expect BT to provide every hospital and community radio with free telephony and broadband, so why should people/companies in the music industry be expected to provide the fruits of their labours free of charge?<br> <br> I do, however, have an issue with the amount such small, local, not-for-profit organisations have to pay, and the lack of any competition to or, in the absence of that, effective market regulation of, these collecting societies.<br> <br> There is, of course, the Copyright Tribunal, to which all such "licensing schemes" run by "licensing bodies" can be referred. Hospital radio had its own dispute with PPL a few years ago, and the Hospital Broadcasting Association (the equivalent of the CMA for hospital radio) took QC's legal advice about taking the dispute to the Copyright Tribunal. It was told not to waste it's money - this was so big a can of worms that PPL couldn't afford to lose, its pockets were much deeper that the HBA's, and the chances were that they'd just keep the issue live until such time as the HBA ran out of money. That doesn't sound like effective regulation to me!<br> <br> All the above is, of course, my own personal views, and these do not necessarily reflect the corporate views of Winchester Radio  :-)<br> <br> Cheers,<br> <br> Nigel<br><pre>--
Nigel Dallard
Trustee
Winchester Radio
A Charitable Incorporated Organisation registered in England and Wales, no. 1160752</pre><div class="ox-abae7becaf-moz-cite-prefix">On 01/12/2016 14:03, Ian Hickling wrote:<br></div><blockquote type="cite"><div id="ox-abae7becaf-divtagdefaultwrapper" dir="ltr" style="font-size: 12pt; color: #000000; font-family: Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;"><p><br></p><p>That's <span style="font-size: 12pt;">very informative - thank you.</span></p><p>But they've left out (or - Heaven forbid - ignored) two important aspects of the responses to their Joint Consultation:</p><p><br></p><p>1 - If this is a Licence - as opposed to a Service Charge - why isn't it issued by the only Licensing Authority in the system - which is Ofcom?  <span style="font-size: 12pt;">PRSfM and PPL are commercial businesses - not Licensing Authorities</span></p><p><br></p><p>2 - Despite many requests - there is still no categorical statement as to why PRSfM and PPL are entitled in Law to claim these payments - and precisely where this is written in UK Legislation.</p><p><br></p><p>Sorry - I know I've asked this many times before - but it's something we do need to have laid before us - and by the very people who are making these far-reaching demands.</p><p>My feeling is that broadcasters large and small who p<span style="font-size: 12pt;">art with their hard-earned cash before being happy with the answers are rather unwise.</span></p><p><span style="font-size: 12pt;">This isn't going to go away.<br> It makes no odds to us - we don't pay these charges - it's you out there, our friends and loyal Clients, that I'm concerned about.</span></p><p><br></p><div id="ox-abae7becaf-Signature"><div style="line-height: 21.3px; color: #444444; background-color: #ffffff;"><p class="ox-abae7becaf-ecxMsoNormal" style="line-height: 22.72px;"><span style="font-family: Calibri; font-size: medium;"><span style="line-height: 22.72px;"><span style="line-height: 22.72px; color: #222222;">Ian Hickling</span></span></span></p></div><p class="ox-abae7becaf-ecxMsoNormal" style="line-height: 22.72px; color: #444444; background-color: #ffffff;"><span style="line-height: 22.72px; color: #222222;"><span style="font-family: Calibri; font-size: medium;">Partner</span></span><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri,sans-serif; line-height: 22.72px;"><br style="line-height: 22.72px;"> <br style="line-height: 22.72px;"> <a id="ox-abae7becaf-LPNoLP" style="line-height: 22.72px; color: blue;" href="http://www.transplanuk.com/" target="_blank"><span style="line-height: 22.72px; color: #1155cc; text-decoration: none;"><img id="ox-abae7becaf-ecx_x0000_i1025" style="line-height: 22.72px; border: none;" src="https://ci4.googleusercontent.com/proxy/2SkDsnIzSZgRbNnNKBSiwxiFhFQWRGV55mTjVL23fulnJpstZmYxeKrrYefY4qxiSgkMrAETld64XINLXCsujE_zI5gAsQyWeCWvHixcrNYtar3Sij4YlVBgN2NSQ-n2DsgZvrnpWZlfwCQ=s0-d-e1-ft#http://www.transplanuk.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/transplan_UK_weblogo_190x60.png" alt="" border="0"></span></a></span></p><div style="line-height: 21.3px; color: #444444; background-color: #ffffff;"><p class="ox-abae7becaf-ecxMsoNormal" style="line-height: 22.72px; font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif;"><span style="font-size: small;"><em style="line-height: 22.72px;"><span style="line-height: 22.72px; font-family: Arial,sans-serif; color: #222222;">Office: 016 3557 8435  (07h to 22h GTS)</span></em></span></p></div><div style="line-height: 21.3px; color: #444444; background-color: #ffffff;"><p class="ox-abae7becaf-ecxMsoNormal" style="line-height: 22.72px; font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif;"><span style="font-size: small;"><em style="line-height: 22.72px;"><span style="line-height: 22.72px; font-family: Arial,sans-serif; color: #222222;">Car: 075 3098 0115 (only responds when driving)</span></em></span></p></div><div style="line-height: 21.3px; color: #444444; background-color: #ffffff;"><p class="ox-abae7becaf-ecxMsoNormal" style="line-height: 22.72px; font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif;"><em style="line-height: 22.72px;"><span style="line-height: 22.72px; font-family: Arial,sans-serif; color: #222222;"><span style="font-size: small;">6 Horn Street, Compton, NEWBURY, RG20 6QS</span></span></em></p></div></div><br><div style="color: #000000;"><hr style="display: inline-block; width: 98%;"><div id="ox-abae7becaf-divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: #000000; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><strong>From:</strong> <a class="ox-abae7becaf-moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:cma-l-bounces@mailman.commedia.org.uk">cma-l-bounces@mailman.commedia.org.uk</a> <a class="ox-abae7becaf-moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:cma-l-bounces@mailman.commedia.org.uk"><cma-l-bounces@mailman.commedia.org.uk></a> on behalf of CMA-L <a class="ox-abae7becaf-moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:cma-l@commedia.org.uk"><cma-l@commedia.org.uk></a><br> <strong>Sent:</strong> 01 December 2016 13:18<br> <strong>To:</strong> <a class="ox-abae7becaf-moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:cma-l@commedia.org.uk">cma-l@commedia.org.uk</a><br> <strong>Subject:</strong> [cma-l] PPL & PRS for Music Joint Licence for Community Radio</span><div> </div></div><div><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr">On 15 September 2016, PPL and PRS for Music began a four-week consultation on the proposed introduction of a joint PPL and PRS for Music Community Radio Licence for Ofcom-licensed community radio stations from 1 January 2017 (the “Joint Licence”). <a href="http://www.ppluk.com/Global/Summary%20of%20Consultation%20Responses.pdf">This document</a> summarises the responses received and sets out what will happen next.<br> <br> This consultation was undertaken in accordance with <a href="http://www.ppluk.com/About-Us/Who-We-Are/PPL-Code-of-Conduct/"> PPL</a> and <a href="http://www.prsformusic.com/codeofconduct">PRS</a> for Music’s separate Codes of Conduct, which state that whenever new tariffs are introduced or significant amendments to existing tariffs are made, a fair, reasonable and proportionate approach to consultation will be undertaken.<br> <br> PPL and PRS for Music initially consulted with the Community Media Association (“the CMA”) to seek its views on the proposed Joint Licence. Following positive discussions, the CMA responded to the Joint Licence proposal advising that it acknowledges the proposed headline terms and welcomes the simplified approach and reduced administration for the community radio sector.<br> <br> To complete the consultation process, PPL and PRS for Music invited individual licensees to review and comment on the proposal. All on-air stations holding a PPL Community Radio Licence and/or PRS for Music Community Radio Licence and organisations holding an Ofcom Community Radio Licence that are yet to launch on AM or FM were contacted via email and provided with response forms that could be completed and returned either by email or post.<br> <br> PPL also set up a dedicated area on its website where the relevant information (including the consultation document and response form) was made available to read and download along with a dedicated email address allowing any comments or queries to be submitted. A summary was also provided on the PRS for Music website, linking to the relevant part of the PPL website. The CMA consulted independently with the sector and the responses received were collated and made available to PPL and PRSfM.<br> <br> PPL and PRS for Music have independently considered the responses received and have finalised the proposed terms of the Joint Licence.<br> <br> The finalised headline terms of the Joint Licence will take effect from 1 January 2017 and are confirmed in Section 3 (page 9) of <a href="http://www.ppluk.com/Global/Summary%20of%20Consultation%20Responses.pdf">this document</a>.<br> <br> A summary of the consultation responses, including details of the headline terms, is now available to review online:<br> <br> <a href="http://www.ppluk.com/Global/Summary%20of%20Consultation%20Responses.pdf">http://www.ppluk.com/Global/Summary%20of%20Consultation%20Responses.pdf</a><br> <br> \\<br> <br clear="all"><div><div class="ox-abae7becaf-gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div>Community Media Association<br> -- <br> <a href="http://www.commedia.org.uk/" target="_blank">http://www.commedia.org.uk/</a><br> <a href="http://twitter.com/community_media" target="_blank">http://twitter.com/community_media</a><br> <a href="https://www.facebook.com/CommunityMediaAssociation" target="_blank">https://www.facebook.com/CommunityMediaAssociation</a><br> <br></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></blockquote></blockquote><p><br> </p><blockquote type="cite">_______________________________________________<br><br>Reply - cma-l@commedia.org.uk<br><br>The cma-l mailing list is a members' service provided by the Community Media Association - http://www.commedia.org.uk<br>Twitter: http://twitter.com/community_media<br>http://www.facebook.com/CommunityMediaAssociation<br>Canstream Internet Radio & Video: http://www.canstream.co.uk/<br>_______________________________________________<br><br>Mailing list guidelines: http://www.commedia.org.uk/about/cma-email-lists/email-list-guidelines/<br>_______________________________________________<br><br>To unsubscribe or manage your CMA-L mailing list subscription please visit:<br>http://mailman.commedia.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/cma-l</blockquote></body></html>