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</head><body><p><br></p><blockquote type="cite">On 16 September 2016 at 14:07 James Cridland <james@cridland.net> wrote:<br><br><div dir="ltr">>><span style="font-size: 12.8px;">I stand to be corrected, but I don't think any society has gone before the tribunal on any proposal to amend or extend their scheme to cover non-profit radio, they have just come up with fresh agreements for community radio, offering broadly the same terms as for large scale commercial radio.<<</span><div><span style="font-size: 12.8px;"><br></span></div><div><span style="font-size: 12.8px;">They don't need to. They can charge what they like, and if the Community Media Association doesn't agree with the prices and thinks it's worth it, the CMA can then take them to the Copyright Tribunal if they can't reach agreement any other way. That's how the Tribunal works, as a last resort. You don't have to ask them for permission.</span></div></div></blockquote><p>Indeed - I made just that point. The problem is this that the Copyright tribunal is not genuinely available to most licence seekers, owing to the cumbersome process and the copyright bodies' history of stacking up potential legal costs, or the threat of same, for anyone who tries to seek a settlement before the tribunal. Indeed as I recall in one case, the racking up of costs was so egregious and blatantly designed simply to hurt the appelant that the tribunal awarded costs substantially against the copyright body, even though it had won the actual case at hand!</p><p>Alex</p><p><br></p><blockquote type="cite"><div class="ox-4670a09a4f-gmail_extra"><div class="ox-4670a09a4f-gmail_quote">On 16 September 2016 at 12:45, Two Lochs Radio <<a href="mailto:tlr@gairloch.co.uk" target="_blank">tlr@gairloch.co.uk</a>> wrote:<br><blockquote><div><p>Actually Richard, I don't think that's exactly right.</p><p>The legislation certainly gives societies the right to apply to the Copyright Tribunal for legal recognition of a licensing scheme for a group of rights holders, or to vary a scheme, but it is up to the societies to set the scale of fees in their schemes. The Copyright Tribunal becomes involved in ruling on the details of fees only if specifically asked to.</p><p>The Copyright Tribunal's main role is to act as an arbiter if and when prospective rights user finds themselves unable to agree grant of a licence or licence terms with a relevant collecting society. Going before the tribunal is an expensive and protracted process much the same as bringing any other civil case to court (though there is now a fast track available to some cases). This of course can effectively deny justice to users who do not have the financial and legal resources that PPL or PRS can bring to bear in court, and who cannot risk the potentially huge legal bills.</p></div></blockquote></div>.........................<br clear="all"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><span style="font-size: 12.8px;"></span></div><div><span style="font-size: 12.8px;">I'm not in community radio, so my two-pence-worth on this is:</span></div><div><span style="font-size: 12.8px;"><br></span></div><div><span style="font-size: 12.8px;">1. They charge most large commercial radio groups around 12% of NBR in total. They're charging just 4% for most community radio stations (assuming you're earning less than 600,000 quid). If you earn nothing on commercial revenue, you're paying 732. And there are no extra charges for the internet, it would appear, reading the terms.</span></div><div><span style="font-size: 12.8px;"><br></span></div><div><span style="font-size: 12.8px;">2. They require full logs for commercial radio groups, and you have to deal with PRS and PPL separately. For community radio, from January, you don't have any logging requirements, and you're only going to be dealing with one company: less hassle, less paperwork.</span></div><div><span style="font-size: 12.8px;"><br></span></div><div><span style="font-size: 12.8px;">I think, for the entire PRS/PPL repertoire, that's a bloody good deal, to be honest.</span></div><div><span style="font-size: 12.8px;"><br></span></div><div><span style="font-size: 12.8px; line-height: 18.2857px;">.............</span></div></div></div></div></blockquote></body></html>