<div dir="ltr">Alex<div><br></div><div>Yes, if people follow the link that I posted it should be clear that <span style="font-size:12.8px">reclaiming VAT paid out applies only if you register as a business for VAT. I am not a tax expert and would urge people to read all the information in the following link and sub-links:</span></div><div><span style="font-size:12.8px"><br></span></div><div><span style="font-size:12.8px"><a href="https://www.gov.uk/reclaim-vat/what-you-can-and-cant-reclaim">https://www.gov.uk/reclaim-vat/what-you-can-and-cant-reclaim</a></span><br></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br></div><div class="gmail_extra">For stations that do not make charges to customers - for example, stations not carrying advertisements - then it appears that there is even more incentive to register for VAT.</div><div class="gmail_extra"><br></div><div class="gmail_extra">Any stations that might need some assistance with this can email <a href="mailto:vatregistration@commedia.org.uk">vatregistration@commedia.org.uk</a> and we will do our best to signpost you towards more qualified opinion but cannot offer detailed expert advice at this stage.</div><div class="gmail_extra"><br></div><div class="gmail_extra">Best regards</div><div class="gmail_extra"><br></div><div class="gmail_extra">Bill</div><div class="gmail_extra">-- <br clear="all"><div><div class="gmail_signature" data-smartmail="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><span><div><div><div><div><div>Operations Manager<br></div>Community Media Association<br></div><a href="http://www.commedia.org.uk" target="_blank">http://www.commedia.org.uk</a><br></div><div><a href="https://twitter.com/community_media" target="_blank">https://twitter.com/community_media</a><br></div><div><a href="https://facebook.com/CommunityMediaAssociation" target="_blank">https://facebook.com/CommunityMediaAssociation</a><br><br></div><div></div>Canstream Internet Radio<br></div><a href="http://www.canstream.co.uk" target="_blank">http://www.canstream.co.uk</a><br></div><a href="https://twitter.com/canstream" target="_blank">https://twitter.com/canstream</a></span></div></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div><b><font size="4" color="#0000ff">Book your tickets now for the Community Media Conference 2016: <a href="http://bit.ly/2016CMAConf" target="_blank">http://bit.ly/2016CMAConf</a></font></b></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div>
<br><div class="gmail_quote">On 4 July 2016 at 13:25, Two Lochs Radio <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:tlr@gairloch.co.uk" target="_blank">tlr@gairloch.co.uk</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><u></u>
<div><p>Bill</p><p>I think you need to make it clear that what you say about reclaiming VAT paid out applies only if you register as a business for VAT, in which case you also have to charge your own customers VAT on all supplies within the scope of VAT. You can't just ask for a refund unilaterally.</p><p>As per my earlier email, this may well not be a problem, but I think it is one of the reasons most stations stay away from voluntary registration. The other main reason being the added accounting paperwork. It's a matter of judging the pros and cons.</p><p>However, as I said, I think it would almost always be of benefit to be registered during the start-up phase of a typical CR station in order to reclaim the exceptional VAT expenditure during that period. However, I am not qualified in these matters, and should not be relied upon for decision making!</p><span class="HOEnZb"><font color="#888888"><p>Alex</p></font></span><div><div class="h5"><blockquote type="cite">On 04 July 2016 at 12:53 Bill Best <<a href="mailto:bill.best@commedia.org.uk" target="_blank">bill.best@commedia.org.uk</a>> wrote:<br><br><div dir="ltr">Good afternoon<div><br></div><div>The issue of whether VAT was applicable would be a matter for HMRC and not for PPL and PRSfM - but as Richard states PPL and PRSfM would have examined this issue in great detail, not that we should ever be complacent. Furthermore, on the legality of anything that the licensing agencies do, they both have entire departments charged with looking at legal minutiae and everything that they do is rigorously checked from a legal perspective.</div><div><br></div><div>On the question of VAT, you can usually reclaim the VAT paid on goods and services purchased for use in your business.</div><div><br></div><div><div>You cannot reclaim VAT for:</div><div><ul><li>anything that’s only for private use<br></li><li>goods and services your business uses to make <a href="https://www.gov.uk/vat-businesses/when-not-to-charge-vat" target="_blank">VAT-exempt supplies</a><br></li><li>business entertainment costs<br></li><li>anything you’ve bought from other EU countries (you may be able to reclaim VAT charged under the <a href="https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/vat-notice-723a-refunds-of-vat-in-the-european-community-for-ec-and-non-ec-businesses/vat-notice-723a-refunds-of-vat-in-the-european-community-for-ec-and-non-ec-businesses" target="_blank">electronic cross-border refund system</a>)<br></li><li>goods sold to you under one of the <a href="https://www.gov.uk/vat-margin-schemes" target="_blank">VAT second-hand margin schemes</a><br></li><li>business assets that are transferred to you as a <a href="https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/vat-notice-7009-transfer-of-business-as-a-going-concern/vat-notice-7009-transfer-of-business-as-a-going-concern" target="_blank">going concern</a><br></li></ul></div></div><div>More details here about reclaiming VAT: <a href="https://www.gov.uk/reclaim-vat/what-you-can-and-cant-reclaim" target="_blank">https://www.gov.uk/reclaim-vat/what-you-can-and-cant-reclaim</a></div><div><br></div><div>CMA members needing more information and assistance on reclaiming VAT can email <a href="mailto:vatregistration@commedia.org.uk" target="_blank">vatregistration@commedia.org.uk</a> for further help.</div><div><div><br></div><div>Best regards</div><div><br></div><div>Bill</div><div>-- </div><div><div><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div><div><div><div>Operations Manager<br></div>Community Media Association<br></div><a href="http://www.commedia.org.uk" target="_blank">http://www.commedia.org.uk</a><br></div><div><a href="https://twitter.com/community_media" target="_blank">https://twitter.com/community_media</a><br></div><div><a href="https://facebook.com/CommunityMediaAssociation" target="_blank">https://facebook.com/CommunityMediaAssociation</a><br><br></div><div> <br></div>Canstream Internet Radio<br></div><a href="http://www.canstream.co.uk" target="_blank">http://www.canstream.co.uk</a><br></div><a href="https://twitter.com/canstream" target="_blank">https://twitter.com/canstream</a></div></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div><strong><span style="color:#0000ff;font-size:large">Book your tickets now for the Community Media Conference 2016: <a href="http://bit.ly/2016CMAConf" target="_blank">http://bit.ly/2016CMAConf</a></span></strong></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><br><div>On 4 July 2016 at 12:08, Richard Hilton <<a href="mailto:Richard.Hilton@bitc.org.uk" target="_blank">Richard.Hilton@bitc.org.uk</a>> wrote:<br><blockquote><div><div><p><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">Taking up the VAT point (so feel free to skip this post if VAT leaves you cold!).<u></u><u></u></span></p><p><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">VAT; given their size I’d be amazed if they don’t have someone on their staff who is a VAT expert or that they can’t call on professional advisors on whether to charge VAT or not. So at some time in the past they should have taken advice on this.<u></u><u></u></span></p><p><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">However, it would have depended on the question they asked the ‘VAT man’ and, believe it or not, it may well suit them to charge VAT. For example, they may be partially exempt for VAT purpose and if you are and depending on your scheme charging VAT on as much as possible can be beneficial. <u></u><u></u></span></p><p><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">The bottom line is that it is worth challenging them why they charge VAT and when they last challenged the VAT Man why they should be charging VAT.<u></u><u></u></span></p><p><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">I’d be interested to know if anyone charged VAT by a supplier (i.e. PRS / PPL) can go straight to the ‘VAT Man’ and query why they are being charged VAT. Anyone know the answer?<u></u><u></u></span></p><p><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">Richard<u></u><u></u></span></p><p><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><div><div style="border-style:solid none none;border-top-width:1pt;border-top-color:#e1e1e1;padding:3pt 0cm 0cm"><p><strong><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">From:</span></strong><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> <a href="mailto:cma-l-bounces@mailman.commedia.org.uk" target="_blank">cma-l-bounces@mailman.commedia.org.uk</a> [mailto:<a href="mailto:cma-l-bounces@mailman.commedia.org.uk" target="_blank">cma-l-bounces@mailman.commedia.org.uk</a>] <strong>On Behalf Of </strong>Ian Hickling<br> <strong>Sent:</strong> 04 July 2016 08:21<span><br> <strong>To:</strong> The Community Media Association Discussion List<br> </span></span></p><div><div><strong>Subject:</strong> [cma-l] Joint PRS/PPL licences<u></u><u></u></div></div><p> <br></p></div></div><div><div><p><u></u> <u></u></p><div><p><span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:black">Thanks Alex - clarity personified.<br> Following on from that, let's look at another aspect of the operation of the collecting societies.</span><u></u><u></u></p><div><p><span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:black">Where else in the conduct of a normal business are you expected to pay for a service voluntarily and at your own instigation?</span><u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p><span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:black">PPL and PRSfM should determine from published information - as anyone can - who is broadcasting and then should generate a conventional Invoice explaining in proper legal terms why the debt has been incurred.</span><u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p><span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:black">I still maintain that - regardless of colloquial terminology - as they are subject to VAT, these royalty payments are "services" - not "licences".</span><u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p style="margin-bottom:12pt"><span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:black">The VAT Regulations make the distinction very clearly and they are firmly enforced as we all know.</span><u></u><u></u></p><div><p style="line-height:17.05pt;background-color:white"><span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:#222222">Ian Hickling</span><u></u><u></u></p></div><p style="line-height:17.05pt;background:white"><span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:#222222">Partner</span><span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:#444444"><br> <br> <a href="http://www.transplanuk.com/" target="_blank"><span style="color:#1155cc;text-decoration:none"><img src="http://www.transplanuk.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/transplan_UK_weblogo_190x60.png" alt="" border="0"></span></a><u></u><u></u></span></p><div><p style="line-height:17.05pt;background:white"><em><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:#222222">Office: 016 3557 8435 (07h to 22h GTS)</span></em><u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p style="line-height:17.05pt;background:white"><em><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:#222222">Car: 075 3098 0115 (only responds when driving)</span></em><u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p style="line-height:17.05pt;background:white"><em><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:#222222">6 Horn Street, Compton, NEWBURY, RG20 6QS</span></em><u></u><u></u></p></div><p style="margin-bottom:12pt"><span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><div><div style="text-align:center" align="center"><hr align="center" size="2" width="100%"></div><p style="margin-bottom:12pt"><span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">From: <a href="mailto:tlr@gairloch.co.uk" target="_blank">tlr@gairloch.co.uk</a><br> To: <a href="mailto:cma-l@mailman.commedia.org.uk" target="_blank">cma-l@mailman.commedia.org.uk</a><br> Date: Sun, 3 Jul 2016 13:59:17 +0100<br> Subject: Re: [cma-l] Joint PRS/PPL licences<u></u><u></u></span></p><div><p><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">Ian, the collecting societies <strong>are</strong> authorized by statute (the 1988 Copyright Act). But it any event, legal agreements granting permissions to use copyright are conventionally referred to as ‘licences’, whether issued by a private holder, commercial company or collecting society. A licence is a formally granted consent to do something which the licensor otherwise has the right to restrict.</span><u></u><u></u></p><p><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:#1f497d"> </span><u></u><u></u></p><p><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">I mentioned this in a posting a few days. It is in return for this statutorily granted privilege that they are subject to the legal option of a user deeming their own licence and taking recourse to the Copyright Tribunal.</span><u></u><u></u></p><p><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:#1f497d"> </span><u></u><u></u></p><p><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">NB, and strictly playing devil’s advocate, they are <strong>not</strong> commercial organizations any more than the typical CR station, just a lot bigger and less reputable in their behaviour. They are not-for-profit membership societies incorporated as Companies Limited by Guarantee. </span><u></u><u></u></p><p><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:#1f497d"> </span><u></u><u></u></p><p><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">See also PPL’s constitution at <a href="http://www.ppluk.com/Documents/Code%20of%20Conduct%20PDFs/PPL%20Articles%20of%20Association%202016.pdf" target="_blank"> http://www.ppluk.com/Documents/Code%20of%20Conduct%20PDFs/PPL%20Articles%20of%20Association%202016.pdf</a></span><u></u><u></u></p><p><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:#1f497d"> </span><u></u><u></u></p><p><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">Alex </span><u></u><u></u></p><p><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:#1f497d"> </span><u></u><u></u></p><div><div style="border-style:solid none none;border-top-width:1pt;border-top-color:#e1e1e1;padding:3pt 0cm 0cm"><p><strong><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">From:</span></strong><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> <a href="mailto:cma-l-bounces@mailman.commedia.org.uk" target="_blank">cma-l-bounces@mailman.commedia.org.uk</a> [<a href="mailto:cma-l-bounces@mailman.commedia.org.uk" target="_blank">mailto:cma-l-bounces@mailman.commedia.org.uk</a>] <strong>On Behalf Of </strong>Ian Hickling<br> <strong>Sent:</strong> 02 July 2016 14:53<br> <strong>To:</strong> The Community Media Association Discussion List <<a href="mailto:cma-l@mailman.commedia.org.uk" target="_blank">cma-l@mailman.commedia.org.uk</a>>; Bill Best <<a href="mailto:bill.best@commedia.org.uk" target="_blank">bill.best@commedia.org.uk</a>>; <a href="mailto:colin@susyradio.com" target="_blank">colin@susyradio.com</a><br> <strong>Subject:</strong> [cma-l] Joint PRS/PPL licences</span><u></u><u></u></p></div></div><p><span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> <u></u><u></u></span></p><div><p><span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:black">As ever - thanks Bill for taking the trouble to spell out the situation.</span><u></u><u></u></p><div><p><span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:black">I would however - at the risk of invoking terminal boredom on the part of some of our friends - query just one word - "licence!".</span><u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p><span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:black">These are not licences.</span><u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p><span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:black">A licence is permission issued by a Statutory Authority to authorise the Licensee to perform a specific function.<br> Ofcom is precisely that, H M Government's appointed Broadcast Regulator - and in the case of an RSL issues the BA (Broadcasting Act) Licence at £30 per day and the WTA (Wireless Telegraphy Act) Licence at £40 per day.</span><u></u><u></u></p></div></div></div><p><span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><table style="border-style:solid none none;border-top-width:1pt;border-top-color:#d3d4de" border="1" cellpadding="0"><tbody><tr><td style="width:41.25pt;border:none;padding:9.75pt 0.75pt 0.75pt" width="55"><p><a href="https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient" target="_blank"><span style="text-decoration:none"><img style="width:46px;min-height:29px" src="https://ipmcdn.avast.com/images/2016/icons/icon-envelope-tick-round-orange_184x116-v1.png" alt="" width="46" height="29" border="0"></span></a><u></u><u></u></p></td><td style="width:352.5pt;border:none;padding:9pt 0.75pt 0.75pt" width="470"><p style="line-height:13.5pt"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:#41424e">Virus-free. <a href="https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient" target="_blank"> <span style="color:#4453ea">www.avast.com</span></a> <u></u><u></u></span></p></td></tr></tbody></table><p><span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><br> _______________________________________________ Reply - <a href="mailto:cma-l@commedia.org.uk" target="_blank"> cma-l@commedia.org.uk</a> The cma-l mailing list is a members' service provided by the Community Media Association - <a href="http://www.commedia.org.uk" target="_blank">http://www.commedia.org.uk</a> Twitter: <a href="http://twitter.com/community_media" target="_blank"> http://twitter.com/community_media</a> <a href="http://www.facebook.com/CommunityMediaAssociation" target="_blank"> http://www.facebook.com/CommunityMediaAssociation</a> Canstream Internet Radio & Video: <a href="http://www.canstream.co.uk/" target="_blank">http://www.canstream.co.uk/</a> _______________________________________________ Mailing list guidelines: <a href="http://www.commedia.org.uk/about/cma-email-lists/email-list-guidelines/" target="_blank"> http://www.commedia.org.uk/about/cma-email-lists/email-list-guidelines/</a> _______________________________________________ To unsubscribe or manage your CMA-L mailing list subscription please visit: <a href="http://mailman.commedia.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/cma-l" target="_blank">http://mailman.commedia.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/cma-l</a><u></u><u></u></span></p></div></div></div></div></div></div>The information in this email is confidential and may be privileged. 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