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</head><body><p>It's embodied in the Copyright Acts Ian. This has all been rehearsed at great length in past discussions on CMA-L.</p><p>In a nutshell the law says that in return for the privilege of being a statutorily recognized 'collecting society' they are obliged to offer suitable and reasonable licences to anyone who wishes to use the copyright holdings of their members'.</p><p>The law also provides for any would-be copyright user who feels an appropriate and fair licence is not being offered to deem their own licence terms for the time being, but with the obligation then to make an application to the copyright tribunal for it to determine what would be fair terms. </p><p>And that's where the problem lies - the Copyright tribunal is essentially a court process with the same sorts of potential costs and legal procedures as a court of law, and in my view this essentially denies justice to small bodies without the financial resources to risk engaging in the process. PPL also has a history of deliberately racking up unnecessarily large legal costs at tribunal (which could fall on the appelant regardless of who wins the underlying case). </p><p>PPL relies heavily upon this 'David and Goliath' position to impose burdensome licences, comforted by the knowledge that none of us (nor would appear the CMA) has the stomach or financial backing for such a fight.</p><p>The tribunal decision on which the current tariffs are based was the result of the last major case brought before the tribunal by the (then) Association of independent Radio Companies, many years ago and long before not-for-profit radio was envisaged. It did *not* incidentally include any provision for a minimum fee to be levied.</p><p>Alex</p><blockquote type="cite"><div id="ox-f09d1c624c" class="ox-f09d1c624c-hmmessage">On 30 June 2016 at 22:21 Ian Hickling <transplanfm@hotmail.com> wrote:<br><br><div dir="ltr"><span style="color: #000000;">That's surprising - they were always traditionally at daggers drawn.</span><div><span style="color: #000000;">But it still doesn't answer two points:<br>1 - Exactly where in Law dies it require broadcasters to pay these two private organisations a fee that they determine between them?<br>2 - If it is a firm legal requirement - why doesn't Ofcom include it as an integral part of the mandatory licence fee structure?<br>My feeling is that the answer to the second point determines the first point.<br id="ox-f09d1c624c-FontBreak"></span><br><div style="line-height: 21.3px; color: #444444; background-color: #ffffff;"><p class="ox-f09d1c624c-ecxMsoNormal" style="line-height: 22.72px;"><span style="font-family: Calibri; font-size: medium;"><span style="line-height: 22.72px;"><span style="line-height: 22.72px; color: #222222;">Ian Hickling</span></span></span></p></div><p class="ox-f09d1c624c-ecxMsoNormal" style="line-height: 22.72px; color: #444444; background-color: #ffffff;"><span style="line-height: 22.72px; color: #222222;"><span style="font-family: Calibri; font-size: medium;">Partner</span></span><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; line-height: 22.72px;"><br style="line-height: 22.72px;"><br style="line-height: 22.72px;"><a style="line-height: 22.72px; color: blue; cursor: pointer;" href="http://www.transplanuk.com/" target="_blank"><span style="line-height: 22.72px; color: #1155cc; text-decoration: none;"><img id="ox-f09d1c624c-ecx_x0000_i1025" style="line-height: 22.72px; border: none;" src="https://ci4.googleusercontent.com/proxy/2SkDsnIzSZgRbNnNKBSiwxiFhFQWRGV55mTjVL23fulnJpstZmYxeKrrYefY4qxiSgkMrAETld64XINLXCsujE_zI5gAsQyWeCWvHixcrNYtar3Sij4YlVBgN2NSQ-n2DsgZvrnpWZlfwCQ=s0-d-e1-ft#http://www.transplanuk.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/transplan_UK_weblogo_190x60.png" alt="" border="0"></span></a></span></p><div style="line-height: 21.3px; color: #444444; background-color: #ffffff;"><p class="ox-f09d1c624c-ecxMsoNormal" style="line-height: 22.72px; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-size: small;"><em style="line-height: 22.72px;"><span style="line-height: 22.72px; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: #222222;">Office: 016 3557 8435  (07h to 22h GTS)</span></em></span></p></div><div style="line-height: 21.3px; color: #444444; background-color: #ffffff;"><p class="ox-f09d1c624c-ecxMsoNormal" style="line-height: 22.72px; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-size: small;"><em style="line-height: 22.72px;"><span style="line-height: 22.72px; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: #222222;">Car: 075 3098 0115 (only responds when driving)</span></em></span></p></div><div style="line-height: 21.3px; color: #444444; background-color: #ffffff;"><p class="ox-f09d1c624c-ecxMsoNormal" style="line-height: 22.72px; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><em style="line-height: 22.72px;"><span style="line-height: 22.72px; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: #222222;"><span style="font-size: small;">6 Horn Street, Compton, NEWBURY, RG20 6QS</span></span></em></p></div><br><br><div><hr id="ox-f09d1c624c-stopSpelling">From: tlr@gairloch.co.uk<br>To: cma-l@mailman.commedia.org.uk<br>Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2016 11:54:39 +0100<br>Subject: [cma-l] Joint PRS/PPL licences<br><br><div class="ox-f09d1c624c-ecxWordSection1"><p class="ox-f09d1c624c-ecxMsoNormal">We received an interesting letter today from PPL giving notice of termination of our current licence on 31 Dec because they are proposing to come up with a joint PPL/PRS licence for community radio from that date.</p><p class="ox-f09d1c624c-ecxMsoNormal"> </p><p class="ox-f09d1c624c-ecxMsoNormal">This should make things easier for everyone and reduce the admin burden, which is good news, and I guess will be generally welcomed.</p><p class="ox-f09d1c624c-ecxMsoNormal"> </p><p class="ox-f09d1c624c-ecxMsoNormal">The letter says PPL and PRS will be consulting with the sector over the plan - I would urge CMA and anyone else able to respond to press for the new minimum fee to be no more than the present minimum fee of either <u>one</u> of the two bodies.</p><p class="ox-f09d1c624c-ecxMsoNormal"> </p><p class="ox-f09d1c624c-ecxMsoNormal">It seems to me if the new system will reduce their admin costs, there should be no need for more than the equivalent of one current minimum fee to cover that, especially as no doubt nowadays more of the admin is done at low cost by IT than it used to be, rather than an army of clerks.</p><p class="ox-f09d1c624c-ecxMsoNormal"> </p><p class="ox-f09d1c624c-ecxMsoNormal">Alex</p></div><br><table class="mce-item-table" style="border-top: 1px solid #D3D4DE;"><tbody><tr><td style="width: 55px; padding-top: 13px;"><a href="https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient" target="_blank"><img style="width: 46px; height: 29px;" src="https://ipmcdn.avast.com/images/2016/icons/icon-envelope-tick-round-orange_184x116-v1.png" alt="" width="46" height="29"></a></td><td style="width: 470px; padding-top: 12px; color: #41424e; font-size: 13px; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; line-height: 18px;">Virus-free. <a style="color: #4453ea;" href="https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient" target="_blank">www.avast.com</a></td></tr></tbody></table><br>_______________________________________________ Reply - cma-l@commedia.org.uk The cma-l mailing list is a members' service provided by the Community Media Association - http://www.commedia.org.uk Twitter: http://twitter.com/community_media http://www.facebook.com/CommunityMediaAssociation Canstream Internet Radio & Video: http://www.canstream.co.uk/ _______________________________________________ Mailing list guidelines: http://www.commedia.org.uk/about/cma-email-lists/email-list-guidelines/ _______________________________________________ To unsubscribe or manage your CMA-L mailing list subscription please visit: http://mailman.commedia.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/cma-l</div></div></div></div></blockquote><p><br> </p><blockquote type="cite">_______________________________________________<br><br>Reply - cma-l@commedia.org.uk<br><br>The cma-l mailing list is a members' service provided by the Community Media Association - http://www.commedia.org.uk<br>Twitter: http://twitter.com/community_media<br>http://www.facebook.com/CommunityMediaAssociation<br>Canstream Internet Radio & Video: http://www.canstream.co.uk/<br>_______________________________________________<br><br>Mailing list guidelines: http://www.commedia.org.uk/about/cma-email-lists/email-list-guidelines/<br>_______________________________________________<br><br>To unsubscribe or manage your CMA-L mailing list subscription please visit:<br>http://mailman.commedia.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/cma-l</blockquote></body></html>