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<body class='hmmessage'><div dir='ltr'><font color="#000000">Alan - thank you - but we do this all the time with professional-quality RF systems.<br>The point I was making - which seems to have eluded everyone - is that the phrase you used - </font><span style="background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"><span style="font-size: 12pt; line-height: 19.88px;">"20cm patch antennas" - gives no indication as I said of the make, model, design, propagation </span><span style="line-height: 19.88px;">characteristics</span><span style="font-size: 12pt; line-height: 19.88px;"> or </span><span style="line-height: 19.88px;">operating</span><span style="font-size: 12pt; line-height: 19.88px;"> frequency of the system you are proposing - just the size and basic </span><span style="line-height: 19.88px;">construction</span><span style="font-size: 12pt; line-height: 19.88px;"> format.</span></span><div><font color="#000000"><span style="line-height: 19.88px;">We would describe the type of system we provide as "a 5,8 GHz two-way data link using IP-fed Ubiquity 40cm dishes"<br id="FontBreak"></span></font>Just a difference of philosophy maybe?<br><br><div style="line-height:21.3px;color:rgb(68, 68, 68);background-color:rgb(255, 255, 255);"><p class="ecxMsoNormal" style="line-height:22.72px;background-image:initial;background-attachment:initial;background-size:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial;background-position:initial;background-repeat:initial;"><font face="Calibri" size="3"><span style="line-height:22.72px;"><span style="line-height:22.72px;color:rgb(34, 34, 34);">Ian Hickling</span></span><span style="color:rgb(34, 34, 34);line-height:17.9867px;line-height:17.9867px;"></span></font></p></div><p class="ecxMsoNormal" style="line-height:22.72px;color:rgb(68, 68, 68);background-color:rgb(255, 255, 255);"><span style="line-height:22.72px;color:rgb(34, 34, 34);background-image:initial;background-attachment:initial;background-size:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial;background-position:initial;background-repeat:initial;"><font face="Calibri" size="3">Partner</font></span><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;line-height:22.72px;"><br style="line-height:22.72px;"><br style="line-height:22.72px;"><a href="http://www.transplanuk.com/" target="_blank" style="line-height:22.72px;font-weight:inherit;color:blue;cursor:pointer;"><span style="line-height:22.72px;color:rgb(17, 85, 204);text-decoration:none;"><img border="0" id="ecx_x0000_i1025" src="https://ci4.googleusercontent.com/proxy/2SkDsnIzSZgRbNnNKBSiwxiFhFQWRGV55mTjVL23fulnJpstZmYxeKrrYefY4qxiSgkMrAETld64XINLXCsujE_zI5gAsQyWeCWvHixcrNYtar3Sij4YlVBgN2NSQ-n2DsgZvrnpWZlfwCQ=s0-d-e1-ft#http://www.transplanuk.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/transplan_UK_weblogo_190x60.png" style="line-height:22.72px;border:none;"></span></a></span></p><div style="line-height:21.3px;color:rgb(68, 68, 68);background-color:rgb(255, 255, 255);"><p class="ecxMsoNormal" style="line-height:22.72px;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;"><font size="2"><i style="line-height:22.72px;"><span style="line-height:22.72px;font-family:Arial, sans-serif;color:rgb(34, 34, 34);">Office: 016 3557 8435 (07h to 22h GTS)</span></i><span style="font-family:Arial, sans-serif;color:rgb(34, 34, 34);line-height:17.9867px;"></span></font></p></div><div style="line-height:21.3px;color:rgb(68, 68, 68);background-color:rgb(255, 255, 255);"><p class="ecxMsoNormal" style="line-height:22.72px;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;"><font size="2"><i style="line-height:22.72px;"><span style="line-height:22.72px;font-family:Arial, sans-serif;color:rgb(34, 34, 34);">Car: 075 3098 0115 (only responds when driving)</span></i><span style="line-height:17.9867px;font-family:Arial, sans-serif;color:rgb(34, 34, 34);"></span></font></p></div><div style="line-height:21.3px;color:rgb(68, 68, 68);background-color:rgb(255, 255, 255);"><p class="ecxMsoNormal" style="line-height:22.72px;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;"><i style="line-height:22.72px;"><span style="line-height:22.72px;font-family:Arial, sans-serif;color:rgb(34, 34, 34);"><font size="2">6 Horn Street, Compton, NEWBURY, RG20 6QS</font></span></i></p></div><br><br><div><hr id="stopSpelling">Date: Sat, 4 Jun 2016 19:11:54 +0100<br>From: alan.coote@5digital.co.uk<br>To: cma-l@mailman.commedia.org.uk<br>Subject: Re: [cma-l] Radio Link Transmission systems<br><br><div><div>Alex, </div><div><br></div><div>Excellent information, very informative – thank you!</div><div><br></div><div>Ian, if you would like to know more (although Alex clearly knows his stuff), then I’m more than happy to put you in touch with the MD of a company who have vast experience setting these systems up.</div><div><br></div><div>Regards</div><div> </div><div><div id=""><p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><font size="3">Alan</font></span></p><p class="ecxMsoNormal"><br></p><p class="ecxMsoNormal" style="font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;font-size:14px;"><span lang="EN-US"><font size="3"><span style="color:rgb(107, 0, 109);"></span></font></span></p></div></div></div><div><br></div><span id="ecxOLK_SRC_BODY_SECTION"><div style="font-family:Calibri;font-size:12pt;text-align:left;color:black;BORDER-BOTTOM:medium none;BORDER-LEFT:medium none;PADDING-BOTTOM:0in;PADDING-LEFT:0in;PADDING-RIGHT:0in;BORDER-TOP:#b5c4df 1pt solid;BORDER-RIGHT:medium none;PADDING-TOP:3pt;"><span style="font-weight:bold;">From: </span> <<a href="mailto:cma-l-bounces@mailman.commedia.org.uk">cma-l-bounces@mailman.commedia.org.uk</a>> on behalf of "<a href="mailto:tlr@gairloch.co.uk">tlr@gairloch.co.uk</a>" <<a href="mailto:tlr@gairloch.co.uk">tlr@gairloch.co.uk</a>><br><span style="font-weight:bold;">Reply-To: </span> "<a href="mailto:cma-l@mailman.commedia.org.uk">cma-l@mailman.commedia.org.uk</a>" <<a href="mailto:cma-l@mailman.commedia.org.uk">cma-l@mailman.commedia.org.uk</a>><br><span style="font-weight:bold;">Date: </span> Saturday, 4 June 2016 at 15:46<br><span style="font-weight:bold;">To: </span> "<a href="mailto:cma-l@mailman.commedia.org.uk">cma-l@mailman.commedia.org.uk</a>" <<a href="mailto:cma-l@mailman.commedia.org.uk">cma-l@mailman.commedia.org.uk</a>><br><span style="font-weight:bold;">Subject: </span> [cma-l] [***SPAM***] Re: Radio Link Transmission systems<br></div><div><br></div><p dir="ltr">Ah, I see, but he was just giving a broad description of the setup wasn't he?</p><p dir="ltr">Of course if you know the frequency (5.8GHz in this case), you can make a pretty good assumption about the antenna gain, pattern etc, especially if it's a simple old single polarisation model. </p><p dir="ltr">Alex<br></p><div class="ecxgmail_quote">On 4 Jun 2016 14:08, Ian Hickling <<a href="mailto:transplanfm@hotmail.com">transplanfm@hotmail.com</a>> wrote:<br><blockquote class="ecxquote" style="border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;"><div><div dir="ltr"><font color="#000000">All accepted Alex - yes - this is my </font>subject as you know and has been for well over 50 years<div><font color="#000000">I was simply pointing out to Alan that using the phrase </font><span style="background-color:rgb( 255 , 255 , 255 );"><font size="3"><span style="line-height:19.88px;">"20cm patch antennas" in isolation conveys no useful information whatsoever.</span></font></span><font color="#000000"><br></font><br><div style="line-height:21.3px;color:rgb( 68 , 68 , 68 );background-color:rgb( 255 , 255 , 255 );"><p style="line-height:22.72px;"><font face="Calibri" size="3"><span style="line-height:22.72px;"><span style="line-height:22.72px;color:rgb( 34 , 34 , 34 );">Ian Hickling</span></span><span style="color:rgb( 34 , 34 , 34 );line-height:17.9867px;line-height:17.9867px;"></span></font></p></div><p style="line-height:22.72px;color:rgb( 68 , 68 , 68 );background-color:rgb( 255 , 255 , 255 );"><span style="line-height:22.72px;color:rgb( 34 , 34 , 34 );"><font face="Calibri" size="3">Partner</font></span><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:'calibri' , sans-serif;line-height:22.72px;"><br style="line-height:22.72px;"><br style="line-height:22.72px;"><a href="http://www.transplanuk.com/" style="line-height:22.72px;font-weight:inherit;color:blue;" target="_blank"><span style="line-height:22.72px;color:rgb( 17 , 85 , 204 );text-decoration:none;"><img border="0" src="https://ci4.googleusercontent.com/proxy/2SkDsnIzSZgRbNnNKBSiwxiFhFQWRGV55mTjVL23fulnJpstZmYxeKrrYefY4qxiSgkMrAETld64XINLXCsujE_zI5gAsQyWeCWvHixcrNYtar3Sij4YlVBgN2NSQ-n2DsgZvrnpWZlfwCQ=s0-d-e1-ft#http://www.transplanuk.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/transplan_UK_weblogo_190x60.png" style="line-height:22.72px;border:none;"></span></a></span></p><div style="line-height:21.3px;color:rgb( 68 , 68 , 68 );background-color:rgb( 255 , 255 , 255 );"><p style="line-height:22.72px;font-family:'times new roman' , serif;"><font size="2"><i style="line-height:22.72px;"><span style="line-height:22.72px;font-family:'arial' , sans-serif;color:rgb( 34 , 34 , 34 );">Office: 016 3557 8435 (07h to 22h GTS)</span></i><span style="font-family:'arial' , sans-serif;color:rgb( 34 , 34 , 34 );line-height:17.9867px;"></span></font></p></div><div style="line-height:21.3px;color:rgb( 68 , 68 , 68 );background-color:rgb( 255 , 255 , 255 );"><p style="line-height:22.72px;font-family:'times new roman' , serif;"><font size="2"><i style="line-height:22.72px;"><span style="line-height:22.72px;font-family:'arial' , sans-serif;color:rgb( 34 , 34 , 34 );">Car: 075 3098 0115 (only responds when driving)</span></i><span style="line-height:17.9867px;font-family:'arial' , sans-serif;color:rgb( 34 , 34 , 34 );"></span></font></p></div><div style="line-height:21.3px;color:rgb( 68 , 68 , 68 );background-color:rgb( 255 , 255 , 255 );"><p style="line-height:22.72px;font-family:'times new roman' , serif;"><i style="line-height:22.72px;"><span style="line-height:22.72px;font-family:'arial' , sans-serif;color:rgb( 34 , 34 , 34 );"><font size="2">6 Horn Street, Compton, NEWBURY, RG20 6QS</font></span></i></p></div><br><br><div><hr>From: <a href="mailto:tlr@gairloch.co.uk">tlr@gairloch.co.uk</a><br>To: <a href="mailto:cma-l@mailman.commedia.org.uk">cma-l@mailman.commedia.org.uk</a><br>Date: Sat, 4 Jun 2016 12:14:50 +0100<br>Subject: Re: [cma-l] Radio Link Transmission systems<br><br><div><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:'calibri' , sans-serif;color:#1f497d;">Just look up the datasheets for any of the antennas Ian – they give all the usual polar patterns, gain figures, FB ratios etc as you would get for any broadcast antenna. They’re much what you expect – the panel antennas are in simplest terms just a broadside phased array, just like you might construct with conventional metalwork antennas.</span><BR><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:'calibri' , sans-serif;color:#1f497d;"> </span><BR><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:'calibri' , sans-serif;color:#1f497d;">As with the more familiar dipoles and Yagis they can be scaled and optimized for gain, pattern and operating frequencies, but typically aren’t used below 300MHz. Gains typically range over 0-24dBi, for higher gains dishes tend to be more practical and better controlled patterns. Panels tend to have more sidelobes and poorer front-back ratios than end fire arrays like Yagis or dishes, but can be relatively easily screened at higher frequencies.</span><BR><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:'calibri' , sans-serif;color:#1f497d;"> </span><BR><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:'calibri' , sans-serif;color:#1f497d;">Eg for the <a href="http://www.amphenol-antennas.com/getattachment/d407a33f-db8d-40cb-999a-f17377f11410/Products/Antennas/Antenna-Accessories-%281%29/Tri-Sector-TRIO-Accessories-%281%29/GPS-Antenna-Mounts/5680000.aspx" target="_blank">Jaybeam 14dB 568000</a> one we use on our STL: </span><BR><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:'calibri' , sans-serif;color:#1f497d;"> </span><BR><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:'calibri' , sans-serif;color:#1f497d;"><img border="0" width="719" height="265" src="https://cid:image002.jpg@01D1BE5A.B1586770"></span><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:'calibri' , sans-serif;color:#1f497d;"></span><BR><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:'calibri' , sans-serif;color:#1f497d;"> </span><BR><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:'calibri' , sans-serif;color:#1f497d;">For a typical 5.8GHz 21dBi w-fi panel:</span><BR><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:'calibri' , sans-serif;color:#1f497d;"> </span><BR><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:'calibri' , sans-serif;color:#1f497d;"><img border="0" width="746" height="354" src="https://cid:image003.jpg@01D1BE5A.58FCED80"></span><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:'calibri' , sans-serif;color:#1f497d;"></span><BR><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:'calibri' , sans-serif;color:#1f497d;"> </span><BR><div><div style="border:none;border-top:solid #e1e1e1 1pt;padding:3pt 0cm 0cm 0cm;"><b><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:'calibri' , sans-serif;">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:'calibri' , sans-serif;"> <a href="mailto:cma-l-bounces@mailman.commedia.org.uk">cma-l-bounces@mailman.commedia.org.uk</a> [<a href="mailto:cma-l-bounces@mailman.commedia.org.uk">mailto:cma-l-bounces@mailman.commedia.org.uk</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Ian Hickling<br><b>Sent:</b> 03 June 2016 22:45<br><b>To:</b> The Community Media Association Discussion List <<a href="mailto:cma-l@mailman.commedia.org.uk">cma-l@mailman.commedia.org.uk</a>><br><b>Subject:</b> [cma-l] Radio Link Transmission systems</span><BR></div></div> <BR><div><span style="font-family:'calibri' , sans-serif;color:black;">I'm familiar with that general principle - very common in mobile phone base station panel construction - but as an antenna engineer I was more concerned with the operating frequency, forward gain and propagation pattern - which as yet are not clear from what I can read here.</span><span style="font-family:'calibri' , sans-serif;"></span><BR><div><p style="line-height:17.05pt;background:white;"><span style="font-family:'calibri' , sans-serif;color:#222222;">Ian Hickling</span><span style="font-family:'calibri' , sans-serif;color:#444444;"></span></p></div><p style="line-height:17.05pt;background:white;"><span style="font-family:'calibri' , sans-serif;color:#222222;">Partner</span><span style="font-family:'calibri' , sans-serif;color:#444444;"><br><br><a href="http://www.transplanuk.com/" target="_blank"><span style="color:#1155cc;text-decoration:none;"><img border="0" src="https://ci4.googleusercontent.com/proxy/2SkDsnIzSZgRbNnNKBSiwxiFhFQWRGV55mTjVL23fulnJpstZmYxeKrrYefY4qxiSgkMrAETld64XINLXCsujE_zI5gAsQyWeCWvHixcrNYtar3Sij4YlVBgN2NSQ-n2DsgZvrnpWZlfwCQ=s0-d-e1-ft#http://www.transplanuk.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/transplan_UK_weblogo_190x60.png"></span></a></span></p><div><p style="line-height:17.05pt;background:white;"><i><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:'arial' , sans-serif;color:#222222;">Office: 016 3557 8435 (07h to 22h GTS)</span></i><span style="color:#444444;"></span></p></div><div><p style="line-height:17.05pt;background:white;"><i><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:'arial' , sans-serif;color:#222222;">Car: 075 3098 0115 (only responds when driving)</span></i><span style="color:#444444;"></span></p></div><div><p style="line-height:17.05pt;background:white;"><i><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:'arial' , sans-serif;color:#222222;">6 Horn Street, Compton, NEWBURY, RG20 6QS</span></i><span style="color:#444444;"></span></p></div></div></div><br><table style="border-top:1px solid #d3d4de;"><tbody><tr><td style="width:55px;padding-top:13px;"><a href="https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient" target="_blank"><img src="https://ipmcdn.avast.com/images/2016/icons/icon-envelope-tick-round-orange_184x116-v1.png" height="29px"></a></td><td style="width:470px;padding-top:12px;color:#41424e;font-size:13px;font-family:'arial' , 'helvetica' , sans-serif;line-height:18px;">Virus-free. <a href="https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient" style="color:#4453ea;" target="_blank">www.avast.com</a>
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