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<body class='hmmessage'><div dir='ltr'><font color="#000000">James - can I take you up on two points:</font><div><i> I am now arguing that it is no longer a technical trial, and that Ofcom are just letting these muxes continue on-air while they work out what to do next. Good for listeners. Good for those people who gambled successfully to run those muxes. I can't see the downside.</i><font color="#000000"><br id="FontBreak"></font>The down side is surely that those who were arbitrarily and apparently quite unfairly in some cases not selected to run these trials - hardly a gamble - are deprived from contributing.</div><div><i>But, this being the community radio list, don't let me stand in the way of more gripes and moans about Ofcom and how desperately unfair life is in general. We haven't heard how much PRS and PPL are going to charge yet! A rich seam!</i></div><div>No - come on - that sort of sarcasm is beneath you. <span style="font-size: 12pt;">If you saw first hand every day like we do how hard some of these guys have to work against such unfair restrictions, you might have a bit more sympathy.</span></div><div><span style="font-size: 12pt;">At least some of us are getting to the root of their problems and pushing the right doors - as Ed Vaizey would say.</span></div><div><br><div style="line-height:21.3px;color:rgb(68, 68, 68);background-color:rgb(255, 255, 255);"><p class="ecxMsoNormal" style="line-height:22.72px;background-image:initial;background-attachment:initial;background-size:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial;background-position:initial;background-repeat:initial;"><font face="Calibri" size="3"><span style="line-height:22.72px;"><span style="line-height:22.72px;color:rgb(34, 34, 34);">Ian Hickling</span></span><span style="color:rgb(34, 34, 34);line-height:17.9867px;line-height:17.9867px;"></span></font></p></div><p class="ecxMsoNormal" style="line-height:22.72px;color:rgb(68, 68, 68);background-color:rgb(255, 255, 255);"><span style="line-height:22.72px;color:rgb(34, 34, 34);background-image:initial;background-attachment:initial;background-size:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial;background-position:initial;background-repeat:initial;"><font face="Calibri" size="3">Partner</font></span><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;line-height:22.72px;"><br style="line-height:22.72px;"><br style="line-height:22.72px;"><a href="http://www.transplanuk.com/" target="_blank" style="line-height:22.72px;font-weight:inherit;color:blue;cursor:pointer;"><span style="line-height:22.72px;color:rgb(17, 85, 204);text-decoration:none;"><img border="0" id="ecx_x0000_i1025" src="https://ci4.googleusercontent.com/proxy/2SkDsnIzSZgRbNnNKBSiwxiFhFQWRGV55mTjVL23fulnJpstZmYxeKrrYefY4qxiSgkMrAETld64XINLXCsujE_zI5gAsQyWeCWvHixcrNYtar3Sij4YlVBgN2NSQ-n2DsgZvrnpWZlfwCQ=s0-d-e1-ft#http://www.transplanuk.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/transplan_UK_weblogo_190x60.png" style="line-height:22.72px;border:none;"></span></a></span></p><div style="line-height:21.3px;color:rgb(68, 68, 68);background-color:rgb(255, 255, 255);"><p class="ecxMsoNormal" style="line-height:22.72px;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;"><font size="2"><i style="line-height:22.72px;"><span style="line-height:22.72px;font-family:Arial, sans-serif;color:rgb(34, 34, 34);">Office: 016 3557 8435 (07h to 22h GTS)</span></i><span style="font-family:Arial, sans-serif;color:rgb(34, 34, 34);line-height:17.9867px;"></span></font></p></div><div style="line-height:21.3px;color:rgb(68, 68, 68);background-color:rgb(255, 255, 255);"><p class="ecxMsoNormal" style="line-height:22.72px;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;"><font size="2"><i style="line-height:22.72px;"><span style="line-height:22.72px;font-family:Arial, sans-serif;color:rgb(34, 34, 34);">Car: 075 3098 0115 (only responds when driving)</span></i><span style="line-height:17.9867px;font-family:Arial, sans-serif;color:rgb(34, 34, 34);"></span></font></p></div><div style="line-height:21.3px;color:rgb(68, 68, 68);background-color:rgb(255, 255, 255);"><p class="ecxMsoNormal" style="line-height:22.72px;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;"><i style="line-height:22.72px;"><span style="line-height:22.72px;font-family:Arial, sans-serif;color:rgb(34, 34, 34);"><font size="2">6 Horn Street, Compton, NEWBURY, RG20 6QS</font></span></i></p></div><br><br><div><hr id="stopSpelling">Date: Tue, 8 Mar 2016 14:48:42 +0000<br>From: ravensound@pilgrimsound.co.uk<br>To: cma-l@mailman.commedia.org.uk<br>Subject: Re: [cma-l] UpsidedownNews<br><br>
<div class="ecxmoz-cite-prefix">Well, who wouldn't be unhappy in
Victoria for example with a digital radio system that is not only
up to date but gives access to the community stations on the main
mux. They also have "pork barrel politics" which helps group
initiatives along the way....<br>
<br>
Tony Bailey <br>
<br>
On 08/03/16 12:31, James Cridland wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote cite="mid:CADxZ7UTRO6z_1g6vSWJA6auxt29=YPUnn+zhdVuseGpxkG7mMQ@mail.gmail.com">
>Much of the qualifying criteria were technical and designed so
that Ofcom could gain empirical data, therefore it’s a technical
trial.<
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I think you misunderstand. It was a 9 month technical trial.
I am now arguing that it is no longer a technical trial, and
that Ofcom are just letting these muxes continue on-air while
they work out what to do next. Good for listeners. Good for
those people who gambled successfully to run those muxes. I
can't see the downside.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>But, this being the community radio list, don't let me stand
in the way of more gripes and moans about Ofcom and how
desperately unfair life is in general. We haven't heard how much
PRS and PPL are going to charge yet! A rich seam!</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>In separate news, I'm really impressed at the quality of
radio from the community radio sector here in Australia. I
visited Bay FM in Byron Bay a few weeks ago, who had massively
impressive news gathering, and 4ZZZ in Brisbane also has
tremendous and unexpected programming (a fascinating computer
games news show the other day). 4ZZZ appears to directly feed
the local ABC with staff, and similarly many of the local ABC
staff are also involved with 4ZZZ too. I've yet to hear anyone
moan about ACMA, much less whine about the general unfairness of
everything. Seems that people just get on and make great radio,
with the same lack of resource as the UK manages on, by the way.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
<div class="ecxgmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr">On Tue, 8 Mar 2016, 20:48 Alan Coote <<a href="mailto:alan.coote@5digital.co.uk">alan.coote@5digital.co.uk</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="ecxgmail_quote">
<div>
<div>
<div>Hi James,</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Much of the qualifying criteria were technical and
designed so that Ofcom could gain empirical data,
therefore it’s a technical trial.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>If it were a business feasibility study that would
be structured very differently and it could be 90%
completed without the need for a trial.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>It's perfectly acceptable to run a trial and then
have an assessment period to analyse the data. It’s
also fully understandable to allow the existing
services to continue; we wouldn’t expect anything less
of course.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>However, if your conjecture regarding plurality is
right then the only reason for extending the trial is
to stress test the stations and multiplex operators.
Putting it bluntly, the actual reason for the trial is
to find out how many will go bust.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">Kind Regards</span></p>
<p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">Alan</span></p>
<p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">Alan Coote</span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">Email - </span><a href="mailto:alan.coote@5digital.co.uk" target="_blank">alan.coote@MonogramMedia.co.uk</a></p>
<p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">Phone - 0800
949 6655</span></p>
<p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">Mobile -
07801 518858</span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">Twitter - <span><a href="http://www.twitter.com/TheAlanCoote" target="_blank">@TheAlanCoote</a></span></span><span> </span></p>
<p class="ecxMsoNormal"><br>
</p>
<p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">Twitter - <a href="http://www.twitter.com/TheAlanCoote" target="_blank"><span>@LTBShow</span></a></span></p>
<p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">Web - <span><a href="http://www.5digital.co.uk/" target="_blank">http://www.LetsTalkBusinessOnline.com</a></span></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div><br>
</div>
<span>
<div><span>From: </span> <<a href="mailto:cma-l-bounces@mailman.commedia.org.uk" target="_blank">cma-l-bounces@mailman.commedia.org.uk</a>>
on behalf of James Cridland <<a href="mailto:james@cridland.net" target="_blank">james@cridland.net</a>><br>
<span>Reply-To: </span> "<a href="mailto:cma-l@mailman.commedia.org.uk" target="_blank">cma-l@mailman.commedia.org.uk</a>"
<<a href="mailto:cma-l@mailman.commedia.org.uk" target="_blank">cma-l@mailman.commedia.org.uk</a>><br>
<span>Date: </span> Tuesday, 8 March 2016 at 02:26</div>
</span></div>
<div><span>
<div><br>
<span>To: </span> "<a href="mailto:martin@martinsteers.co.uk" target="_blank">martin@martinsteers.co.uk</a>" <<a href="mailto:martin@martinsteers.co.uk" target="_blank">martin@martinsteers.co.uk</a>>, "<a href="mailto:cma-l@mailman.commedia.org.uk" target="_blank">cma-l@mailman.commedia.org.uk</a>"
<<a href="mailto:cma-l@mailman.commedia.org.uk" target="_blank">cma-l@mailman.commedia.org.uk</a>><br>
</div>
</span></div>
<div><span>
<div><span>Subject: </span> Re: [cma-l] Ofcom: 10th
March, DCMS: 11th March<br>
</div>
</span></div>
<div><span>
<div><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">In a stakeholder meeting, I asked (when
these were first advertised) whether they'd really be
pulled off after nine months, denying audiences the
additional choice they may have become accustomed to.
Ofcom wriggled a bit in their answer, but seemed to
say "we'll look at that when the time comes". There
was a clue there.</div>
<span></span>
<p dir="ltr">>As this is a technical feasibility
trial how is extending it to 3 years going to give a
significantly better outcome?<</p>
<span></span>
<p dir="ltr">It isn't. The actual technical feasibility
trial is over; at least, without making a few changes
to the multiplexes, Ofcom won't learn more over the
next two years. That's not the point really.</p>
<span></span>
<p dir="ltr">It's worthwhile examining why Ofcom exists.
<a href="http://www.ofcom.org.uk/about/what-is-ofcom/statutory-duties-and-regulatory-principles/" target="_blank">http://www.ofcom.org.uk/about/what-is-ofcom/statutory-duties-and-regulatory-principles/</a>
- it is there to ensure a wide range of services and a
plurality of providers. Turning off services while men
in suits look at broadcast law and at broadcast field
strengths is against Ofcom's statutory duty. More to
the point, it is also unnecessary.</p>
<span></span>
<p dir="ltr">So, Ofcom has elected not to remove the
additional choice to listeners that these small-scale
multiplexes offer. They now have two years to look at
the results of the data and then at the legislation.
It's the right choice for the listener, and I'm
surprised that anyone would want anything else.</p>
<span></span>
<p dir="ltr">J<br>
</p>
<span></span><br>
</span></div>
<div><span>
<div class="ecxgmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr">On Tue, 8 Mar 2016, 3:51 AM Martin
Steers <<a href="mailto:martin@martinsteers.co.uk" target="_blank">martin@martinsteers.co.uk</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
</div>
</span></div>
<div><span>
<div class="ecxgmail_quote">
<blockquote class="ecxgmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>Hiya all,</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Going in everyone concerned knew and expected
it to be a 9 month trial.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>If anything this extension could be seen as a
testament as to possible success and the future
off it. The government is already considering
the longer term implementation and don't want
those current stations / multiplex holders to
stop and have to restart.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>At the stakeholder meeting I pushed the DCMS
for an understanding of the timescales involved
before legislation is in place to enable others
to take advantage of the opportunity of small
scale DAB. Whilst they wouldn't be held to a
deadline or timeframe at that time, they
confirmed to me that they / the government are
keen to make it as quick as feasible. But we all
know that these things can take as long as they
take.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>This is a matter that the CMA will be taking
up and pressing the DCMS & Ofcom for a
timetable, as well as consulting with members
for the best outcome for the community media
sector. I can confirm that the CMA has already
started conversations both with PPL and PRS in
regard to the music licenses for small scale
DAB.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>They are extending it by 2 years (so max
would be 2 years 9 months), I assume (note I)
because they believe they can get the
legislation in place before then. They see it
akin to the pilot project for community radio,
which I believe the CR order was in place before
the trial licenses expired? (a bit before my
time).</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Its worth mentioning most of this is in
relation to the legislation involved with
licenses multiplexes NOT services (eg stations),
again if you have a small scale or even local /
regional DAB service in your area or where you
would like to broadcast you can already consider
applying for that (if there is space).</div>
<div> </div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</span></div>
<div><span>
<div class="ecxgmail_quote">
<blockquote class="ecxgmail_quote">
<div class="ecxgmail_extra">
<div class="ecxgmail_quote">On 7 March 2016 at 14:48,
Alan Coote <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:alan.coote@5digital.co.uk" target="_blank">alan.coote@5digital.co.uk</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</span></div>
<div><span>
<div class="ecxgmail_quote">
<blockquote class="ecxgmail_quote">
<div class="ecxgmail_extra">
<div class="ecxgmail_quote">
<blockquote class="ecxgmail_quote">
<div>
<div>
<div>Martin, et al,</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>This decision affects the whole radio
industry. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Firstly, small scale DAB operations
based their business model on a 9 month
trial. The calculation of ROI over
nearly 3 years is very different from 9
months. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>The delay puts the licensing of small
scale DAB very close to a potential
round 4. So unless community licensing
is concurrent with small scale DAB,
stations will have to choose their
platform without full knowledge of the
other.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>There are a number of commercial
analogue stations which would love to
have an affordable DAB solution. This
delay is costing them audience share and
revenue. </div>
<div> </div>
<div>Finally, what were they thinking! As
this is a technical feasibility trial
how is extending it to 3 years going to
give a significantly better outcome?
There’s only 5 things you can do in
project management; hire more people,
reduce the quality, alter the scope,
find another way to achieve the same
result or extend the time. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Anyone of the other options I believe
is preferable to extending the
deadline. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">Kind Regards</span></p>
<p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">Alan</span></p>
<p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">Alan Coote</span></p>
<p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">Twitter - <span><a href="http://www.twitter.com/TheAlanCoote" target="_blank">@TheAlanCoote</a></span></span><span> </span></p>
<p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">Twitter - <a href="http://www.twitter.com/TheAlanCoote" target="_blank"><span>@LTBShow</span></a></span></p>
<p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">Web - <span><a href="http://www.5digital.co.uk/" target="_blank">http://www.LetsTalkBusinessOnline.com</a></span></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</span></div>
<div><span>
<div class="ecxgmail_quote">
<blockquote class="ecxgmail_quote">
<div class="ecxgmail_extra">
<div class="ecxgmail_quote">
<blockquote class="ecxgmail_quote">
<div><span>
<div><span>From: </span> <<a href="mailto:cma-l-bounces@mailman.commedia.org.uk" target="_blank">cma-l-bounces@mailman.commedia.org.uk</a>>
on behalf of "<a href="mailto:martin@martinsteers.co.uk" target="_blank">martin@martinsteers.co.uk</a>"
<<a href="mailto:martin@martinsteers.co.uk" target="_blank">martin@martinsteers.co.uk</a>><br>
<span>Reply-To: </span> "<a href="mailto:martin@martinsteers.co.uk" target="_blank">martin@martinsteers.co.uk</a>"
<<a href="mailto:martin@martinsteers.co.uk" target="_blank">martin@martinsteers.co.uk</a>>,
"<a href="mailto:cma-l@mailman.commedia.org.uk" target="_blank">cma-l@mailman.commedia.org.uk</a>"
<<a href="mailto:cma-l@mailman.commedia.org.uk" target="_blank">cma-l@mailman.commedia.org.uk</a>><br>
<span>Date: </span> Monday, 7 March
2016 at 09:30<br>
<span>To: </span> "<a href="mailto:cma-l@mailman.commedia.org.uk" target="_blank">cma-l@mailman.commedia.org.uk</a>"
<<a href="mailto:cma-l@mailman.commedia.org.uk" target="_blank">cma-l@mailman.commedia.org.uk</a>><span><br>
<span>Subject: </span> Re: [cma-l]
Ofcom: 10th March, DCMS: 11th March<br>
</span></div>
</span></div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</span></div>
<div><span>
<div class="ecxgmail_quote">
<blockquote class="ecxgmail_quote">
<div class="ecxgmail_extra">
<div class="ecxgmail_quote">
<blockquote class="ecxgmail_quote">
<div><span>
<div>
<div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">Hi Ray,
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I completely understand (and
agree to an extent).</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>At its inception it was a
9month trail, and its DCMS who
have decided to extend it for an
additional 2 years.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>This is more so that the
current stations dont fall off the
trail whilst the government puts
the legislation together to enable
Small Scale DAB to happen.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>No new multiplex licenses will
be issued until that time, HOWEVER
new services (stations) can appear
on multiplexes if they have the
space.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I was recently at the Digital
Radio stakeholder meeting
representing the CMA and put some
of these questions direct to the
DCMS.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Martin</div>
</div>
<div class="ecxgmail_extra"><br>
<div class="ecxgmail_quote">On 4 March
2016 at 10:26, Ray Godby <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:ray.godby@hcrfm.co.uk" target="_blank">ray.godby@hcrfm.co.uk</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="ecxgmail_quote">
<p dir="ltr">Just the fact that
if we had known that the trial
for DAB was going on for 2
year and 9 months we would
have applied. It makes the
costing more reasonable for us
and i am sure many other
stations and do they think
that its working due to
extending the trial. And is it
really right that just a few
stations will have nearly
three years to the exclusion
of others.</p>
<div class="ecxgmail_quote">
<div>
<div>On 3 Mar 2016 19:02,
"CMA-L" <<a href="mailto:cma-l@commedia.org.uk" target="_blank">cma-l@commedia.org.uk</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
</div>
<blockquote class="ecxgmail_quote">
<div>
<div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div>The Community
Media Association is
meeting with Ofcom
on Thursday 10th
March 2016. Please
detail any specific
issues that you
would like the CMA
to raise with Ofcom
using the form
below:<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<a href="http://bit.ly/cmaOfcom" target="_blank">http://bit.ly/cmaOfcom</a>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>As well as the
extension to the
small-scale DAB
trial, the CMA will
also discuss
training and
education
initiatives with
Ofcom on key
commitments as
mentioned in their <a href="http://stakeholders.ofcom.org.uk/consultations/key-commitments/statement/" target="_blank">statement</a>
issued today:</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<blockquote>
<div><span>If the
sector thinks
that there are
benefits from
standardised
record-keeping
beyond what is
currently
required by
Ofcom, it
remains possible
for the sector
to organise
this, perhaps
via an umbrella
organisation
such as the CMA.
We welcome the
suggestion from
the CMA to
contribute to
the development
of a number of
training and
education
initiatives
around
record-keeping
under the new
Key Commitments,
and will explore
this further
with the CMA as
part of our
regular
engagement
programme with
them.</span></div>
</blockquote>
<div><span><br>
</span></div>
<div>And on Friday
11th March 2016 the
CMA is meeting with
the Department of
Culture Media &
Sport . Please
detail any specific
issues that you
would like the CMA
to raise with DCMS
here.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><a href="http://bit.ly/cmaDCMS" target="_blank">http://bit.ly/cmaDCMS</a><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>\\\</div>
<div><br>
<div>
<div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div>Community
Media
Association</div>
<div>-- <br>
<a href="http://www.commedia.org.uk/" target="_blank">http://www.commedia.org.uk/</a><br>
<a href="http://twitter.com/community_media" target="_blank">http://twitter.com/community_media</a><br>
<a href="https://www.facebook.com/CommunityMediaAssociation" target="_blank">https://www.facebook.com/CommunityMediaAssociation</a><br>
<br>
Canstream
Internet Radio
& Video<br>
<a href="http://www.canstream.co.uk/" target="_blank">http://www.canstream.co.uk/</a><br>
<a href="https://twitter.com/canstream" target="_blank">https://twitter.com/canstream</a></div>
</div>
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<pre>_______________________________________________
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The cma-l mailing list is a members' service provided by the Community Media Association - <a class="ecxmoz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.commedia.org.uk" target="_blank">http://www.commedia.org.uk</a>
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<a class="ecxmoz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.facebook.com/CommunityMediaAssociation" target="_blank">http://www.facebook.com/CommunityMediaAssociation</a>
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<pre class="ecxmoz-signature">--
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