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<div class=Section1>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Brilliant<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'> …………. So it is possible, and it is within
budget, but all the tecky stuff needs to be sorted out.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Thank you<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Nick<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span lang=EN-US
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font
size=2 face=Tahoma><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>
Ian Hickling [mailto:transplanfm@hotmail.com] <br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> 06 September 2015 16:53<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> The Community Media
Association Discussion List; office@thethread.org.uk<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> DAB & FM</span></font><span
lang=EN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face=Calibri><span style='font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:Calibri'>The simple answer at the moment Nick is - no-one knows.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face=Calibri><span style='font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:Calibri'>In maybe a few months' time, to duplicate the kit being
used in the trial would cost no more that an FM system - say £3500 I would
suggest.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font size=3 face=Calibri><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Calibri'>But there is no route to anyone
being able to apply for or obtain a licence - so the question of how much it
will or would cost is, I suggest, a bit academic.<br>
I'm sticking however to my point that DAB as we have it now is up against a
brick wall - as its capability to expand to accommodate a lot more stations is
very limited.<br>
To progress with any degree of positive certainty we have to adopt a different
format which isn't specifically "DAB" - but probably will get called
that by everyone else out there.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<div style='text-align:start;widows:1;word-spacing:0px'>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><b><font size=3 color="#222222"
face=Arial><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:#222222;
font-weight:bold'>Ian Hickling</span></font></b><font size=2 color="#222222"
face=Arial><span style='font-size:9.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#222222'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color="#222222" face=Arial style='text-align:
start;widows:1;word-spacing:0px'><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:
Arial;color:#222222;background:white'>Partner</span></font><font face=Calibri><span
style='font-family:Calibri'><br>
<br>
<a href="http://www.transplanuk.com/" target="_blank"><font color="#1155cc"><span
style='color:#1155CC;text-decoration:none'><img border=0 width=190 height=60
id="_x0000_i1025"
src="https://ci4.googleusercontent.com/proxy/2SkDsnIzSZgRbNnNKBSiwxiFhFQWRGV55mTjVL23fulnJpstZmYxeKrrYefY4qxiSgkMrAETld64XINLXCsujE_zI5gAsQyWeCWvHixcrNYtar3Sij4YlVBgN2NSQ-n2DsgZvrnpWZlfwCQ=s0-d-e1-ft#http://www.transplanuk.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/transplan_UK_weblogo_190x60.png"></span></font></a><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><i><font size=3 color="#222222" face=Arial><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:#222222;font-style:italic'>Office:
01635 578435 (7am-11pm <st1:country-region w:st="on"><st1:place
w:st="on">UK</st1:place></st1:country-region> time)</span></font></i><font
size=2 color="#222222" face=Arial><span style='font-size:9.5pt;font-family:
Arial;color:#222222'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><i><font size=3 color="#222222" face=Arial><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:#222222;font-style:italic'>Carphone:
07530 980115 (only responds when driving)</span></font></i><font size=2
color="#222222" face=Arial><span style='font-size:9.5pt;font-family:Arial;
color:#222222'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><st1:address w:st="on"><st1:Street w:st="on"><i><font
size=3 color="#222222" face=Arial><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:
Arial;color:#222222;font-style:italic'>6 Horn Street</span></font></i></st1:Street><i><font
color="#222222" face=Arial><span style='font-family:Arial;color:#222222;
font-style:italic'>, <st1:City w:st="on">Compton</st1:City></span></font></i></st1:address><i><font
color="#222222" face=Arial><span style='font-family:Arial;color:#222222;
font-style:italic'>, <st1:place w:st="on"><st1:City w:st="on">NEWBURY</st1:City>,
<st1:PostalCode w:st="on">RG20 6QS</st1:PostalCode></st1:place></span></font></i><font
size=2 color="#222222" face=Arial><span style='font-size:9.5pt;font-family:
Arial;color:#222222'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font size=3 face=Calibri><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Calibri'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><font size=3
face=Calibri><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Calibri'>
<hr size=2 width="100%" align=center id=stopSpelling>
</span></font></div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font size=3 face=Calibri><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Calibri'>From: office@thethread.org.uk<br>
To: cma-l@mailman.commedia.org.uk<br>
Date: Sun, 6 Sep 2015 13:08:46 +0100<br>
Subject: Re: [cma-l] Eddie on DAB v FM new discussion DAB & FM<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>Chaps</span></font><font face=Calibri><span
style='font-family:Calibri'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'> </span></font><font face=Calibri><span
style='font-family:Calibri'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>All this technical Radio jargon is very
interesting indeed and very educational …. I have to confess I don’t understand
all of it but I’m getting to learn about 40% of it with a couple of our tecky
chaps hovering around 70% ….you guys are clearly experts (re :-
James / Ian / Alex / Glynn et al) however chaps,
we never seem to manage to get to the nitty gritty, and I would imagine at
least half of the folk on the message board are slightly more interested in how
much money does each Community Radio Station need to save in its Piggy Bank to
get itself on small scale DAB & FM, as opposed to learning about algorithms
….. (this is a tongue in-cheek joke chaps merely asking what I feel the
more important question, so don’t shoot the messenger)</span></font><font
face=Calibri><span style='font-family:Calibri'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'> </span></font><font face=Calibri><span
style='font-family:Calibri'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>I have already asked the question and I
would imagine that the likes of Ian being in his field of work (for example)
would be able to come up with a ball-park figure) I
know DAB trials are taking place but surely whether successful or not the end
result is can it be afforded ? if it can’t be afforded
then the whole exercise is pointless anyway isn’t it ???</span></font><font
face=Calibri><span style='font-family:Calibri'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'> </span></font><font face=Calibri><span
style='font-family:Calibri'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>I am merely picking up on James’s
observations and Glynn (I think) who pointed out that possibly this
DAB malarkey is one of those situations whereby we some of us may end being
dragged kicking and screaming as failure to hook into it would mean the big
boys clear up completely.</span></font><font face=Calibri><span
style='font-family:Calibri'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'> </span></font><font face=Calibri><span
style='font-family:Calibri'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>We all understand what Community Radio is
about, but regardless of the whys, whats and wherefores we still have to
compete at some kind of level or we wither and die (unless of
course we win the lottery or receive grants that don’t exist)(re my post
earlier this week)</span></font><font face=Calibri><span style='font-family:
Calibri'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'> </span></font><font face=Calibri><span
style='font-family:Calibri'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>Would you gentlemen of great Community
Radio loveliness please flop a ball park figure on this message board for all
to see re the cost of medium priced equipment, set up and running for DAB …… on
top of what I have roughly worked out to be and ongoing cost of around = £5000
quid for those already broadcasting (new additions of course would have
their initial set up – transmitters / aerials / installation etc)</span></font><font
face=Calibri><span style='font-family:Calibri'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'> </span></font><font face=Calibri><span
style='font-family:Calibri'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>This five grand figure allows for
maintainance and includes PPL/PRS/Canstream/other licences/Internet/Ofcom
licence ….. I have kept it top side as opposed to lower end.</span></font><font
face=Calibri><span style='font-family:Calibri'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>Assuming that PPL/PRS will be hovering,
circling and then charging additionally for something that technically is
already covered, would the figure be roughly the same? as I have to admit
reading all the posts we seem to have gone from DAB being really expensive to
it not being quite as expensive as we first thought, to it being rather cheap
and then back to reasonably expensive again and for us to do it we would be
doing it because we simply ‘had to’ ’or else’ as opposed to wanting to do
it in otherwords the ‘getting left behind discussion.</span></font><font
face=Calibri><span style='font-family:Calibri'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'> </span></font><font face=Calibri><span
style='font-family:Calibri'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>I hope you have followed my thread and
got the gist of it, apologies if it is in laymans terms. </span></font><font
face=Calibri><span style='font-family:Calibri'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'> </span></font><font face=Calibri><span
style='font-family:Calibri'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>Let’s us call the discussion not
‘’’versus’’’ but DAB & FM</span></font><font face=Calibri><span
style='font-family:Calibri'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'> </span></font><font face=Calibri><span
style='font-family:Calibri'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>Thank you</span></font><font
face=Calibri><span style='font-family:Calibri'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'> </span></font><font face=Calibri><span
style='font-family:Calibri'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>Regards</span></font><font face=Calibri><span
style='font-family:Calibri'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'> </span></font><font face=Calibri><span
style='font-family:Calibri'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>Nick</span></font><font face=Calibri><span
style='font-family:Calibri'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'> </span></font><font face=Calibri><span
style='font-family:Calibri'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><font size=3
color=black face="Times New Roman"><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;
color:black'>
<hr size=2 width="100%" align=center tabindex=-1>
</span></font></div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span lang=EN-US
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font
size=2 face=Tahoma><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>
cma-l-bounces@mailman.commedia.org.uk
[mailto:cma-l-bounces@mailman.commedia.org.uk] <b><span style='font-weight:
bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>James Cridland<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> 05 September 2015 20:47<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> Two Lochs Radio; cma-l<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [cma-l] Eddie on DAB
v FM</span></font><font face=Calibri><span style='font-family:Calibri'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'> </span></font><font face=Calibri><span style='font-family:Calibri'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>I use TuneIn's app too.</span></font><font face=Calibri><span
style='font-family:Calibri'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'> </span></font><font face=Calibri><span style='font-family:Calibri'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>Radioplayer provides:</span></font><font face=Calibri><span
style='font-family:Calibri'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>1. A web player that actually works, and that lets people find your
station from BBC Radio 2!</span></font><font face=Calibri><span
style='font-family:Calibri'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>2. A capable app that surfaces your station - first - for people in
your transmission area on iOS and Android, Amazon and Windows.</span></font><font
face=Calibri><span style='font-family:Calibri'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>3. Logos, schedules and broadcast details for your station for a
variety of uses including Radioplayer Car, RadioDNS-enabled tuners, and other
things</span></font><font face=Calibri><span style='font-family:Calibri'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>4. A Chrome app (which I wrote <- disclosure) that puts your station
onto everyone's desktop</span></font><font face=Calibri><span style='font-family:
Calibri'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>5. An app that puts your station onto Ford Sync, Apple CarPlay and
Android Auto (and lets you control it from Apple Watch and Android Wear)</span></font><font
face=Calibri><span style='font-family:Calibri'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>6. Liason on behalf of the entire radio industry to set-top box
manufacturers, car manufacturers and other organisations that you don't talk to
nor have the clout to</span></font><font face=Calibri><span style='font-family:
Calibri'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>7. Usage data</span></font><font face=Calibri><span style='font-family:
Calibri'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
10.0pt'>...and is run on behalf of the radio industry with your goals in mind.</span></font><font
face=Calibri><span style='font-family:Calibri'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'> </span></font><font face=Calibri><span style='font-family:Calibri'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>Even for #1 on that list, it's worth the £99. I appreciate it isn't
free; but then, it isn't slotting ads in front of your streams or making you
compete with 100,000 other stations, either.</span></font><font face=Calibri><span
style='font-family:Calibri'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'> </span></font><font face=Calibri><span style='font-family:Calibri'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>//j</span></font><font face=Calibri><span style='font-family:Calibri'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'> </span></font><font face=Calibri><span style='font-family:Calibri'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'> </span></font><font face=Calibri><span style='font-family:Calibri'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>On Sat, Sep 5, 2015 at 8:32 PM Two Lochs Radio <<a
href="mailto:tlr@gairloch.co.uk">tlr@gairloch.co.uk</a>> wrote:</span></font><font
face=Calibri><span style='font-family:Calibri'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;
margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><em><i><font size=3 color="#333399" face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;color:#333399'>Your fee for Radioplayer is £99. “A more
proportionate fee”?!</span></font></i></em><font face=Calibri><span
style='font-family:Calibri'><br>
</span></font> <font face=Calibri><span style='font-family:Calibri'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>Just so, but Michael originally asked £300, which we negotiated down to
£90 (that was at launch, it has increased 10% since).</span></font><font
face=Calibri><span style='font-family:Calibri'><br>
</span></font> <font face=Calibri><span style='font-family:Calibri'><br>
</span></font>TuneIn's app provides more advanced facilities than Radioplayer
and the service is entirely free to originating stations. They also provide a
schedule and 'On now' without us having to lift a finger - they scrape our own
published schedule periodically (I must ask them to update it as it seems to be
slightly out of date).<font face=Calibri><span style='font-family:Calibri'><br>
</span></font> <font face=Calibri><span style='font-family:Calibri'><br>
</span></font>Alex<font face=Calibri><span style='font-family:Calibri'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'> </span></font><font face=Calibri><span style='font-family:Calibri'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>On 05 September 2015 at 20:03 James Cridland <<a
href="mailto:james@cridland.net" target="_blank">james@cridland.net</a>>
wrote:</span></font><font face=Calibri><span style='font-family:Calibri'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>Your fee for Radioplayer is £99. "A more proportionate fee"?!</span></font><font
face=Calibri><span style='font-family:Calibri'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'> </span></font><font face=Calibri><span style='font-family:Calibri'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>On Sat, 5 Sep 2015 19:47 Two Lochs Radio <<a
href="mailto:tlr@gairloch.co.uk" target="_blank">tlr@gairloch.co.uk</a>>
wrote:</span></font><font face=Calibri><span style='font-family:Calibri'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>Yes, of course I'm aware of the other variants of FM, my point was that
there seems ot be alarge enough market for RDS for set makers, even portables
and some phones, such as HTC, to judge it worthwhile supporting RDS. </span></font><font
face=Calibri><span style='font-family:Calibri'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'> </span></font><font face=Calibri><span style='font-family:Calibri'><br>
</span></font><em><i><font color="#666699" face="Times New Roman"><span
style='color:#666699'>And you need to be continuously scanning the FM and DAB
bands to populate this station list name, otherwise when travelling you'll
never find local radio.</span></font></i></em><font face=Calibri><span
style='font-family:Calibri'><br>
</span></font> <font face=Calibri><span style='font-family:Calibri'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>The radio does that for itself unbidden. I routinely use the radio's
station list to see what stations are in range.</span></font><font
face=Calibri><span style='font-family:Calibri'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'> </span></font><font face=Calibri><span style='font-family:Calibri'><br>
</span></font><em><i><font color="#666699" face="Times New Roman"><span
style='color:#666699'>Incidentally, I cannot comprehend why anyone wouldn't be
on Radioplayer, I must say: its the R&D department for the whole of <st1:country-region
w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">UK</st1:place></st1:country-region> radio.</span></font></i></em><font
face=Calibri><span style='font-family:Calibri'><br>
</span></font> <font face=Calibri><span style='font-family:Calibri'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>The main reason for not being on RadioPlayer would be the cost and the
fact that ithey won't allow you to be on mobiles if you don't provide a
low-rate bitstream. We joined it when the BBC was on it and didn't have its own
radioplayer which rather undermined UK Radioplayer's proposition. But we
did first have to negotiate a more proportionate fee!</span></font><font
face=Calibri><span style='font-family:Calibri'><br>
</span></font> <font face=Calibri><span style='font-family:Calibri'><br>
</span></font>As a user, I still prefer to use TuneIn. It has far more
facilities.<font face=Calibri><span style='font-family:Calibri'><br>
</span></font> <font face=Calibri><span style='font-family:Calibri'><br>
</span></font>Alex<font face=Calibri><span style='font-family:Calibri'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'> </span></font><font face=Calibri><span style='font-family:Calibri'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>On 05 September 2015 at 18:45 James Cridland <<a
href="mailto:james@cridland.net" target="_blank">james@cridland.net</a>>
wrote:</span></font><font face=Calibri><span style='font-family:Calibri'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>Hi, Alex,</span></font><font face=Calibri><span style='font-family:
Calibri'><br>
</span></font>The <st1:country-region w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">UK</st1:place></st1:country-region>
market is a tiny and inconsequential one to most manufacturers. The Digital
Radio tickmark thing is actually deliberately set to mirror similar
accreditation systems in Europe and <st1:country-region w:st="on"><st1:place
w:st="on">Australia</st1:place></st1:country-region>. Further, the radio
industry is uninterested in how radio sets operate, and not big or united
enough to talk to most manufacturers in a coherent manner.<font face=Calibri><span
style='font-family:Calibri'><br>
</span></font>Really, we have a "<st1:place w:st="on">North America</st1:place>
vs rest-of-world" thing going on in radio receivers. You are correct that
AM is different - so is FM, in fact, with different deemphasis values used as
well as different frequency spacing. Pedants: <st1:country-region w:st="on"><st1:place
w:st="on">Japan</st1:place></st1:country-region>'s different still, with FM
from 76 to 108MHz. And parts of ex Soviet countries use something different
again.<font face=Calibri><span style='font-family:Calibri'><br>
</span></font>"Animated and dynamic RDS names do not break tuning by
name" - I bow to your obvious knowledge. I'd only observe that scrolling
now-playing info, in place in many parts of the world, means that you end up
with station names like "TY PERRY" or even "LE NOW O" which
really isn't the sort of user experience any one wants to give, and certainly
isn't recognisable.<font face=Calibri><span style='font-family:Calibri'><br>
</span></font>Tuning by station name doesn't work on AM - but I'd argue that AM
isn't part of radio's future anyway. (Pedants: it does, if you use AMSS, a kind
of RDS for AM. Nobody does).<font face=Calibri><span style='font-family:Calibri'><br>
</span></font>Further, the ideal is tuning by station name irrespective of
waveband - so you'd get "BBC 6 Music" in the same list as
"TwoLochs". (You want that, right?) The issue here is that de-duping
the list isn't simple; "BBC R Scot" on FM in your part of the world
could be different to "BBC Radio <st1:country-region w:st="on"><st1:place
w:st="on">Scotland</st1:place></st1:country-region>" on an available
local multiplex, because of local optouts. The BBC have deliberately broken
service-following between FM and DAB, which has the side effect of also
breaking any way that your radio can de-dupe Radio 4 FM from Radio 4 DAB. And
so on.<font face=Calibri><span style='font-family:Calibri'><br>
</span></font>And you need to be continuously scanning the FM and DAB bands to
populate this station list name, otherwise when travelling you'll never find
local radio.<font face=Calibri><span style='font-family:Calibri'><br>
</span></font>The "Radioplayer Car" unit, currently in test, does all
you have asked for and more - linking to IP as well (and more importantly
linking back), and letting you tune by station name and logo. <a
href="https://media.info/radio/stations/two-lochs-radio" target="_blank">https://media.info/radio/stations/two-lochs-radio</a>
tells me that you are on Radioplayer, so you'll benefit when that is available
for sale later this year.<font face=Calibri><span style='font-family:Calibri'><br>
</span></font>Incidentally, I cannot comprehend why anyone wouldn't be on
Radioplayer, I must say: its the R&D department for the whole of <st1:country-region
w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">UK</st1:place></st1:country-region> radio.<font
face=Calibri><span style='font-family:Calibri'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font size=3
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>James</span></font><font
face=Calibri><span style='font-family:Calibri'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'> </span></font><font face=Calibri><span style='font-family:Calibri'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'> </span></font><font face=Calibri><span style='font-family:Calibri'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>On Sat, 5 Sep 2015 18:17 Two Lochs Radio <<a
href="mailto:tlr@gairloch.co.uk" target="_blank">tlr@gairloch.co.uk</a>>
wrote:</span></font><font face=Calibri><span style='font-family:Calibri'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><em><i><font size=3 color="#666699" face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;color:#666699'>The reason RDS names aren't used as a
method of tuning is that RDS isn't ubiquitous in the <st1:country-region w:st="on">US</st1:country-region>,
and in <st1:place w:st="on">Europe</st1:place> many stations use animated and
dynamic RDS names, which breaks this stuff.</span></font></i></em><font
face=Calibri><span style='font-family:Calibri'><br>
</span></font> <font face=Calibri><span style='font-family:Calibri'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>I can't see any great force in that as a reason for not using station
name tuning by default. The RDS radio market is clearly big enough to support
it as an option perfectly economically in the rest of world without needing to
work in the <st1:country-region w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">US</st1:place></st1:country-region>.
More to the point, I don't think DAB is exactly ubiquitous in the <st1:country-region
w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">US</st1:place></st1:country-region> either is
it? And yet we have a market full of DAB sets!</span></font><font face=Calibri><span
style='font-family:Calibri'><br>
</span></font> <font face=Calibri><span style='font-family:Calibri'><br>
</span></font>Same sort of thing applies to push button tuning on AM - the US
uses 10kHz channel spacing and we use 9kHz, so radio circuits/chipsets in
portables have to support both. Anyway, a radio that can tune by station list
can still be operated by frequency if it finds itself in a non-RDS region, so
it can only be a gain or neutral, not negative.<font face=Calibri><span
style='font-family:Calibri'><br>
</span></font> <font face=Calibri><span style='font-family:Calibri'><br>
</span></font>Animated and dynamic RDS names do not break tuning by name - as I
said, my car can tune by station list, and it works perfectly well in
continental countries that use more advanced techniques - the station list
shows a static shot of the 8 character name which is usually perfectly
recognizable. And again, if not, you can fall back to frequency tuning. Tuning
by station name doesn't have to be the only mode available, but it should (IMO)
be available and the default option for a radio to get the tick mark.<font
face=Calibri><span style='font-family:Calibri'><br>
</span></font> <font face=Calibri><span style='font-family:Calibri'><br>
</span></font>The IP stuff is a further argument, and perfectly fine, but no
bearing on my suggestion that for DAB/FM radios sold for the UK market should
have been required to offer tuning by station name across FM & DAB. <font
face=Calibri><span style='font-family:Calibri'><br>
</span></font> <font face=Calibri><span style='font-family:Calibri'><br>
</span></font>Alex<font face=Calibri><span style='font-family:Calibri'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'> </span></font><font face=Calibri><span style='font-family:Calibri'><br>
</span></font> <font face=Calibri><span style='font-family:Calibri'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>On 05 September 2015 at 15:59 James Cridland <<a
href="mailto:james@cridland.net" target="_blank">james@cridland.net</a>>
wrote:</span></font><font face=Calibri><span style='font-family:Calibri'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>The reason RDS names aren't used as a method of tuning is that RDS
isn't ubiquitous in the <st1:country-region w:st="on">US</st1:country-region>,
and in <st1:place w:st="on">Europe</st1:place> many stations use animated and
dynamic RDS names, which breaks this stuff.</span></font><font face=Calibri><span
style='font-family:Calibri'><br>
</span></font>Neither RDS nor DAB offer handoff to IP, nor direct links to
other IP-based resources either, so they're not, by themselves, future-proof.<font
face=Calibri><span style='font-family:Calibri'><br>
</span></font>RadioDNS provides that mapping, which makes radio receivers
significantly more user friendly.<font face=Calibri><span style='font-family:
Calibri'><br>
</span></font>IP is four times smaller than DAB use here in the <st1:country-region
w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">UK</st1:place></st1:country-region>, and is
growing slower as well. (Indeed, growth appears to have stagnated for most.)<font
face=Calibri><span style='font-family:Calibri'><br>
</span></font>The future is multi-platform, and better sets. Sadly, existing
broadcasters aren't entirely on-board.<font face=Calibri><span
style='font-family:Calibri'><br>
</span></font>James<font face=Calibri><span style='font-family:Calibri'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>_______________________________________________<br>
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face=Calibri><span style='font-family:Calibri'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</blockquote>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>-- </span></font><font face=Calibri><span style='font-family:Calibri'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><a href="http://james.cridland.net" target="_blank">http://james.cridland.net</a>
- get my weekly newsletter<br>
<a href="https://media.info" target="_blank">https://media.info</a> - the media
information website</span></font><font face=Calibri><span style='font-family:
Calibri'><br>
</span></font>Tel: +44 7941 251474 | @jamescridland<font face=Calibri><span
style='font-family:Calibri'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><br>
</span></font><font face=Calibri><span style='font-family:Calibri'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>-- </span></font><font face=Calibri><span style='font-family:Calibri'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><a href="http://james.cridland.net" target="_blank">http://james.cridland.net</a>
- get my weekly newsletter<br>
<a href="https://media.info" target="_blank">https://media.info</a> - the media
information website</span></font><font face=Calibri><span style='font-family:
Calibri'><br>
</span></font>Tel: +44 7941 251474 | @jamescridland<font face=Calibri><span
style='font-family:Calibri'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><br>
</span></font><font face=Calibri><span style='font-family:Calibri'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>-- </span></font><font face=Calibri><span style='font-family:Calibri'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><a href="http://james.cridland.net" target="_blank">http://james.cridland.net</a>
- get my weekly newsletter<br>
<a href="https://media.info" target="_blank">https://media.info</a> - the media
information website</span></font><font face=Calibri><span style='font-family:
Calibri'><br>
</span></font>Tel: +44 7941 251474 | @jamescridland<font face=Calibri><span
style='font-family:Calibri'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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