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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Just so, they rely on the fact that you
can't afford to challenge their legality.<br>
<br>
Tony<br>
<br>
On 13/03/15 16:50, Canalside's The Thread wrote:<br>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span
style="font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">They’re not a
revenue collection
agency, they’re a half legalised money making racket
………..
as not-for-profit charitable groups in this instance our
reports are actually
NOTHING TO REPORT or n/a not applicable.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span
style="font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span
style="font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">It has no bearing
on what we are doing
whatsoever except to create a bureaucratic pain in the
butt, and I am sick to
the back teeth of all of em.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span
style="font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span
style="font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">I do not know what
you guys are doing, but
I shall fight our corner and I am making things as
awkward and as inconvenient
as they make my life<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span
style="font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span
style="font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">Period<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span
style="font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span
style="font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">I’m actually more
annoyed with the
reporting than the actual payments.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span
style="font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span
style="font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">I think some in our
organisation need to
grow some ???????????????<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span
style="font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span
style="font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">Nick<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span
style="font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:center"
align="center"><font color="black" face="Times New Roman"
size="3"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;
color:windowtext" lang="EN-US">
<hr tabindex="-1" size="2" width="100%" align="center">
</span></font></div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><font color="black" face="Tahoma"
size="2"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:windowtext;font-weight:bold"
lang="EN-US">From:</span></font></b><font
color="black" face="Tahoma" size="2"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma;color:windowtext" lang="EN-US"> <st1:personname
w:st="on"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:cma-l-bounces@mailman.commedia.org.uk">cma-l-bounces@mailman.commedia.org.uk</a></st1:personname>
[mailto:<st1:personname w:st="on"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:cma-l-bounces@mailman.commedia.org.uk">cma-l-bounces@mailman.commedia.org.uk</a></st1:personname>]
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">On Behalf Of </span></b>Tony
Bailey<br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">Sent:</span></b> 13
March 2015 15:01<br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">To:</span></b>
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:cma-l@mailman.commedia.org.uk">cma-l@mailman.commedia.org.uk</a>;
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:tlr@gairloch.co.uk">tlr@gairloch.co.uk</a>; <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:david@theradiopeople.co.uk">david@theradiopeople.co.uk</a><br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">Subject:</span></b>
[cma-l] The Cost Of The
DAB Trials</span></font><font color="black"><span
style="color:windowtext" lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="black" face="Times New
Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="black" face="Times New
Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">Revenue
collection agencies would be falling down on
the job if they agreed to collect less cash. You
can't argue with them,
unless you have a cheaper legal team than they have!
I don't know if the
Tribunal route is viable for similar reasons. One
other possibility,
which might be worth a look is the ex-competition
regulator, now re-born as -
the CMA! Only this time it means the Competition and
Markets
Authority. As new boys on the block they might be
worth asking since the
collection agencies are effectively monopolies and
have to act in the public
interest under the 1973 Fair Trading Act (as amended
by the 1998 Competition
Act). The CMA will hear complaints from business as
well as consumers.<br>
<br>
Tony Bailey<br>
<br>
On 12/03/15 21:06, <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:tlr@gairloch.co.uk">tlr@gairloch.co.uk</a>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt"
cite="mid:250953027.84355.1426194406751.JavaMail.open-xchange@oxbaltgw55.schlund.de"
type="cite">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="black" face="Times New
Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">Re the
question of profits, I gave my take on that in
my reply to Nick. PPL's position would be that it
isn't concerned with your
profits, it is concerned to get a fair return on the
value you get from their
members in being able to run the radio station at
all, whether that is for
social gain or financial gain.The argument I have
with PPL is in their approach
and attitude, and the actual amounts they try to
levy. Especially I see
no true justification for the large minimum charges
under the licences (that
just encourages them to have inefficient admin with
the costs covered by small
stations). Nor do I believe there should be
additional fees for simulcasts. The
strange thing is you could treble your population
coverage geographically
(Ofocm permitting) and there would be no change
whatever in the licence other
than reflected in increased revenue, but if you add
a different access method,
even covering teh same area, they want a huge
increase in charges. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="black" face="Times New
Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="black" face="Times New
Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">The
trouble is that with annual revenues approaching
£200m, PPL can rely on the principle of 'might is
right' to have it all its own
way with small operators. The present system
denies justice to those who can't
afford the barristers' fees and risk the potential
legal costs of arguing their
case before the Copyright Tribunal, which is the
arbitration route offered by
the law. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="black" face="Times New
Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="black" face="Times New
Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">The
only routes left for thise without thousands to
spend on legalities are either individual
negotiation, which PPL says it won't
do, a collective approach, which is where CMA
could really come into its own,
lobbying the legislators, civil disobedience, or a
combination of all the
above. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="black" face="Times New
Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="black" face="Times New
Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">Sadly,
CMA's track record of negotiating with PPL
isn't very inspiring - they have achieved tiny
concessions around the edges of
the licence, but no overall rationalization or
serious reduction in charges.
The whole sector should long ago have held out for a
simple low percentage of
revenue royalty - I would propose 1% of NBR for
micro/non-profit stations (eg
turnover less than say £100k or a similar threshold
figure related to the
current 2% and 3% bands). Full stop. No minimum
charges, no extra licences for
simulcasts. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="black" face="Times New
Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="black" face="Times New
Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">Alex <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="black" face="Times New
Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid blue
1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 8.0pt;
margin-left:0cm;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt"
type="cite">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><font
color="black" face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt">On 12 March 2015 at 18:21
David Duffy <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:david@theradiopeople.co.uk"><david@theradiopeople.co.uk></a>
wrote: <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="black" face="Times New
Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">Hi
Nick/Phil <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="black" face="Times New
Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="black" face="Times New
Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">Just
before I reply. can I ask. This email thread
it’s missing other people's contributions on the
subject of 'The Cost Of
The DAB Trials’ that were made previously
(including one from me). I
don’t begin to understand how mailman works but my
earlier response is
still on the thread online but not in this email.
What’s that all
about? <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="black" face="Times New
Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="black" face="Times New
Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">Anyhow,
I wholeheartedly agree. I think there is
a strong case for the CMA to talk to both
copyright bodies on the grounds that
as the use of their members material is on a
not-for-profit basis, community
radio stations should be exempt from fees. Unlike
a commercial radio
station where ultimately the shareholders gain
financially from the use of
copyrighted material; or in a shop where the
proprietor benefits commercially
from playing copyrighted material; the use of the
very same copyrighted
material on a not-for-profit community radio
station just contributes to the service
perpetuating. There is no net financial gain. If
anything, the playing of their
members material contributes to sales, downloads,
merchandise, concert tickets,
etc. So their must surely be a zero sum argument
to be negotiated here on
behalf of the Community Radio sector? <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="black" face="Times New
Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="black" face="Times New
Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">David
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="black" face="Times New
Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><a
href="http://www.theradiopeople.co.uk"
moz-do-not-send="true">www.theradiopeople.co.uk</a>
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="black" face="Times New
Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="black" face="Times New
Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt"
type="cite">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="black" face="Times
New Roman" size="3"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt">On 12 Mar 2015, at
16:38, Canalside's The Thread < <a
href="mailto:office@thethread.org.uk"
moz-do-not-send="true">office@thethread.org.uk</a>>
wrote:
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="black" face="Times New
Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="black" face="Times New
Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><br>
<br>
<br>
</span></font></p>
<fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
<font color="black" face="Times New Roman" size="3"><o:p></o:p></font>
<pre><font color="black" face="Courier New" size="2"><span style="font-size:10.0pt">_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre>
<pre><font color="black" face="Courier New" size="2"><span style="font-size:10.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></pre>
<pre><font color="black" face="Courier New" size="2"><span style="font-size:10.0pt">Reply - <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:cma-l@commedia.org.uk">cma-l@commedia.org.uk</a><o:p></o:p></span></font></pre>
<pre><font color="black" face="Courier New" size="2"><span style="font-size:10.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></pre>
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<pre><font color="black" face="Courier New" size="2"><span style="font-size:10.0pt">_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre>
<pre><font color="black" face="Courier New" size="2"><span style="font-size:10.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></pre>
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<pre><font color="black" face="Courier New" size="2"><span style="font-size:10.0pt">_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre>
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<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<pre><font color="black" face="Courier New" size="2"><span style="font-size:10.0pt">-- <o:p></o:p></span></font></pre>
<pre><font color="black" face="Courier New" size="2"><span style="font-size:10.0pt">Local Reports at <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.ravensound.pilgrimsound.co.uk">http://www.ravensound.pilgrimsound.co.uk</a><o:p></o:p></span></font></pre>
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