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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>They’re not a revenue collection
agency, they’re a half legalised money making racket ………..
as not-for-profit charitable groups in this instance our reports are actually
NOTHING TO REPORT or n/a not applicable.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>It has no bearing on what we are doing
whatsoever except to create a bureaucratic pain in the butt, and I am sick to
the back teeth of all of em.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>I do not know what you guys are doing, but
I shall fight our corner and I am making things as awkward and as inconvenient
as they make my life<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Period<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>I’m actually more annoyed with the
reporting than the actual payments.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>I think some in our organisation need to
grow some ???????????????<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Nick<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><font size=3
color=black face="Times New Roman"><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;
color:windowtext'>
<hr size=2 width="100%" align=center tabindex=-1>
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<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 color=black face=Tahoma><span lang=EN-US
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:windowtext;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font
size=2 color=black face=Tahoma><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma;color:windowtext'> <st1:PersonName w:st="on">cma-l-bounces@mailman.commedia.org.uk</st1:PersonName>
[mailto:<st1:PersonName w:st="on">cma-l-bounces@mailman.commedia.org.uk</st1:PersonName>]
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>Tony Bailey<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> 13 March 2015 15:01<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> cma-l@mailman.commedia.org.uk;
tlr@gairloch.co.uk; david@theradiopeople.co.uk<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> [cma-l] The Cost Of The
DAB Trials</span></font><font color=black><span lang=EN-US style='color:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>Revenue collection agencies would be falling down on
the job if they agreed to collect less cash. You can't argue with them,
unless you have a cheaper legal team than they have! I don't know if the
Tribunal route is viable for similar reasons. One other possibility,
which might be worth a look is the ex-competition regulator, now re-born as -
the CMA! Only this time it means the Competition and Markets
Authority. As new boys on the block they might be worth asking since the
collection agencies are effectively monopolies and have to act in the public
interest under the 1973 Fair Trading Act (as amended by the 1998 Competition
Act). The CMA will hear complaints from business as well as consumers.<br>
<br>
Tony Bailey<br>
<br>
On 12/03/15 21:06, <a href="mailto:tlr@gairloch.co.uk">tlr@gairloch.co.uk</a>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'
cite="mid:250953027.84355.1426194406751.JavaMail.open-xchange@oxbaltgw55.schlund.de"
type=cite>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>Re the question of profits, I gave my take on that in
my reply to Nick. PPL's position would be that it isn't concerned with your
profits, it is concerned to get a fair return on the value you get from their
members in being able to run the radio station at all, whether that is for
social gain or financial gain.The argument I have with PPL is in their approach
and attitude, and the actual amounts they try to levy. Especially I see
no true justification for the large minimum charges under the licences (that
just encourages them to have inefficient admin with the costs covered by small
stations). Nor do I believe there should be additional fees for simulcasts. The
strange thing is you could treble your population coverage geographically
(Ofocm permitting) and there would be no change whatever in the licence other
than reflected in increased revenue, but if you add a different access method,
even covering teh same area, they want a huge increase in charges. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>The trouble is that with annual revenues approaching
£200m, PPL can rely on the principle of 'might is right' to have it all its own
way with small operators. The present system denies justice to those who can't
afford the barristers' fees and risk the potential legal costs of arguing their
case before the Copyright Tribunal, which is the arbitration route offered by
the law. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>The only routes left for thise without thousands to
spend on legalities are either individual negotiation, which PPL says it won't
do, a collective approach, which is where CMA could really come into its own,
lobbying the legislators, civil disobedience, or a combination of all the
above. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>Sadly, CMA's track record of negotiating with PPL
isn't very inspiring - they have achieved tiny concessions around the edges of
the licence, but no overall rationalization or serious reduction in charges.
The whole sector should long ago have held out for a simple low percentage of
revenue royalty - I would propose 1% of NBR for micro/non-profit stations (eg
turnover less than say £100k or a similar threshold figure related to the
current 2% and 3% bands). Full stop. No minimum charges, no extra licences for
simulcasts. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>Alex <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 8.0pt;
margin-left:0cm;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt' type=cite>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font size=3 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>On 12 March 2015 at 18:21
David Duffy <a href="mailto:david@theradiopeople.co.uk"><david@theradiopeople.co.uk></a>
wrote: <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>Hi Nick/Phil <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>Just before I reply. can I ask. This email thread
it’s missing other people's contributions on the subject of 'The Cost Of
The DAB Trials’ that were made previously (including one from me). I
don’t begin to understand how mailman works but my earlier response is
still on the thread online but not in this email. What’s that all
about? <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>Anyhow, I wholeheartedly agree. I think there is
a strong case for the CMA to talk to both copyright bodies on the grounds that
as the use of their members material is on a not-for-profit basis, community
radio stations should be exempt from fees. Unlike a commercial radio
station where ultimately the shareholders gain financially from the use of
copyrighted material; or in a shop where the proprietor benefits commercially
from playing copyrighted material; the use of the very same copyrighted
material on a not-for-profit community radio station just contributes to the service
perpetuating. There is no net financial gain. If anything, the playing of their
members material contributes to sales, downloads, merchandise, concert tickets,
etc. So their must surely be a zero sum argument to be negotiated here on
behalf of the Community Radio sector? <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>David <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'><a href="http://www.theradiopeople.co.uk"
moz-do-not-send=true>www.theradiopeople.co.uk</a> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt' type=cite>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>On 12 Mar 2015, at 16:38, Canalside's The Thread < <a
href="mailto:office@thethread.org.uk" moz-do-not-send=true>office@thethread.org.uk</a>>
wrote: <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'><br>
<br>
<br>
<fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<pre><font size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>Reply - <a
href="mailto:cma-l@commedia.org.uk">cma-l@commedia.org.uk</a><o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>The cma-l mailing list is a members' service provided by the Community Media Association - <a
href="http://www.commedia.org.uk">http://www.commedia.org.uk</a><o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>Twitter: <a
href="http://twitter.com/community_media">http://twitter.com/community_media</a><o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'><a
href="http://www.facebook.com/CommunityMediaAssociation">http://www.facebook.com/CommunityMediaAssociation</a><o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>Canstream Internet Radio & Video: <a
href="http://www.canstream.co.uk/">http://www.canstream.co.uk/</a><o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>Mailing list guidelines: <a
href="http://www.commedia.org.uk/about/cma-email-lists/email-list-guidelines/">http://www.commedia.org.uk/about/cma-email-lists/email-list-guidelines/</a><o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>To unsubscribe or manage your CMA-L mailing list subscription please visit:<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'><a
href="http://mailman.commedia.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/cma-l">http://mailman.commedia.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/cma-l</a><o:p></o:p></span></font></pre></blockquote>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'><br>
<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<pre><font size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>-- <o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>Local Reports at <a
href="http://www.ravensound.pilgrimsound.co.uk">http://www.ravensound.pilgrimsound.co.uk</a><o:p></o:p></span></font></pre></div>
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