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<body class='hmmessage'><div dir='ltr'>A valid analysis certainly.<div>A logical solution would be that an individual commercial operator be required to assert its case for restricting the local "offending" CR - rather than the other way round.</div><div>I would like to see RadioCentre challenged to provide specifics of a member's commercial viability being threatened by a CR.</div><div>The majority of the CRs that we know that are not allowed advertising are within the coverage of a commercial station which was at the time independent but is now part of a group and effectively offering little or no local service whilst maintaining its claim of localness within its unchanged Licence format.<br>Ofcom has agreed that this is wrong - but the onus is on the Licensee to apply to amend its Licence, which of course it's not going to do - is it?<br><br><div><hr id="stopSpelling">From: james@cridland.net<br>Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2015 11:09:48 +0000<br>To: cma-l@mailman.commedia.org.uk<br>Subject: Re: [cma-l] RadioCentre unimpressed with community radio changes<br><br><p dir="ltr">You're not really comparing like with like. For the Global and Bauer's of this world, they account for a large chunk of national advertising and large regional advertising. Community radio isn't in this market.</p>
<p dir="ltr">Small local commercial stations rely most heavily on smaller, local advertisers. Where some have two or three community stations in their patch, the prospect of potentially losing £35k of ad revenue a year is, of course, going to be a concern.</p>
<p dir="ltr">RadioCentre represents many different operators, not just Global and Bauer. It is right to acknowledge that for some smaller independent operators - many of which do not make appreciable profit - this change will not be welcome.</p>
<br><div class="ecxgmail_quote">On Fri, 23 Jan 2015 10:45 Den Packer <<a href="mailto:d.packer@csrfm.com">d.packer@csrfm.com</a>> wrote:<br><blockquote class="ecxgmail_quote" style="border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;"><div dir="ltr"><div>It would seem that way Cat. And even more of a reason to ignore them when you read these stats from the link that Glyn posted.</div><div><br></div><div>"Community radio currently has a 0.7% share of radio advertising in the UK (source Ofcom Communications Market report 2014). If all CR stations take 100% advantage of the new £15k advertising ability it will increase to around 1.4% – hardly earth shattering."</div><div><br></div><div>'nuff said?<br></div><div><br></div><div>Den</div><div>CSR FM</div><div><br></div><div class="ecxgmail_extra"><div><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><b style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;"><font size="1">Dennison Packer | Media Co-ordinator | CSRfm</font><span style="font-size:11px;"><br></span></b><font color="#666666"><font size="1"><font face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif"><b>Tel:</b><b> </b>01227 816101</font></font><span style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:x-small;"> | <b>Website</b>: </span><b style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:x-small;"><a href="http://www.csrfm.com" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:x-small;" target="_blank">www.csrfm.com</a> | </b><span style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:x-small;">97.4 FM in Canterbury | <a href="http://www.twitter.com/csrfm" target="_blank">@CSRfm</a></span></font><BR></div><div></div></div></div></div></div></div>
<br><div class="ecxgmail_quote">On 22 January 2015 at 18:51, <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:cma-l-request@mailman.commedia.org.uk" target="_blank">cma-l-request@mailman.commedia.org.uk</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="ecxgmail_quote" style="border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex;">Send cma-l mailing list submissions to<br>
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Today's Topics:<br>
<br>
1. Re: RadioCentre unimpressed with community radio changes<br>
(Cat Lake)<br>
2. Re: RadioCentre unimpressed with community radio changes<br>
(Two Lochs Radio)<br>
3. Re: RadioCentre unimpressed with community radio changes<br>
(Canalside's The Thread)<br>
<br>
<br>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 1<br>
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2015 18:35:09 +0000<br>
From: Cat Lake <<a href="mailto:connect@catlake.uk" target="_blank">connect@catlake.uk</a>><br>
To: <a href="mailto:martin@martinsteers.co.uk" target="_blank">martin@martinsteers.co.uk</a>, CMA-Mailing-List<br>
<<a href="mailto:cma-l@mailman.commedia.org.uk" target="_blank">cma-l@mailman.commedia.org.uk</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [cma-l] RadioCentre unimpressed with community radio<br>
changes<br>
Message-ID:<br>
<<a href="mailto:CAAERnb4dYhHtn7kwAV3sr9OMudzV8biCpTK0fD2Wfk-D2zxcSA@mail.gmail.com" target="_blank">CAAERnb4dYhHtn7kwAV3sr9OMudzV8biCpTK0fD2Wfk-D2zxcSA@mail.gmail.com</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"<br>
<br>
Just ignore this. It's not like we've gone from no advertising to<br>
unlimited. We've been competing for local advertising for years now. Stupid<br>
people.<br>
<br>
Cat<br>
On Jan 22, 2015 2:52 PM, "Martin Steers" <<a href="mailto:martin@martinsteers.co.uk" target="_blank">martin@martinsteers.co.uk</a>> wrote:<br>
<br>
> Via Radio Today:<br>
> <a href="http://radiotoday.co.uk/2015/01/radiocentre-unimpressed-with-community-radio-changes/" target="_blank">http://radiotoday.co.uk/2015/01/radiocentre-unimpressed-with-community-radio-changes/</a><br>
><br>
> RadioCentre, the industry body for commercial radio, says changes to the<br>
> way community radio stations can fund themselves is a concern for<br>
> commercial stations.<br>
><br>
> The Government today said<br>
> <<a href="http://radiotoday.co.uk/2015/01/community-radio-order-updated/" target="_blank">http://radiotoday.co.uk/2015/01/community-radio-order-updated/</a>> the<br>
> not-for-profit stations can now make the majority of its income from<br>
> advertising, rather than the previous 50% rule.<br>
><br>
> Siobhan Kenny, Chief Executive of RadioCentre said: ?This is a<br>
> disappointing outcome and will be a real cause for concern for small<br>
> commercial radio stations where margins are already squeezed.<br>
><br>
> ?The changes proposed by the Department of Culture, Media and Sport (DCMS)<br>
> risk blurring the lines between community and commercial stations and puts<br>
> them in direct competition for limited local advertising, alongside local<br>
> press, local television and online.<br>
><br>
> ?Community radio can perform a valuable complementary role to commercial<br>
> radio and the BBC, but it must offer something significantly different to<br>
> the communities it serves. Any changes must be accompanied by a renewed<br>
> emphasis on enforcement and compliance with the key commitments of these<br>
> stations.?<br>
><br>
> The Government?s announcement follows a consultation carried out by the<br>
> DCMS launched in February 2013.<br>
><br>
> More details on today?s changes can be found here<br>
> <<a href="http://radiotoday.co.uk/2015/01/community-radio-order-updated/" target="_blank">http://radiotoday.co.uk/2015/01/community-radio-order-updated/</a>>.<br>
><br>
> _______________________________________________<br>
><br>
> Reply - <a href="mailto:cma-l@commedia.org.uk" target="_blank">cma-l@commedia.org.uk</a><br>
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Message: 2<br>
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2015 18:43:44 -0000<br>
From: "Two Lochs Radio" <<a href="mailto:tlr@gairloch.co.uk" target="_blank">tlr@gairloch.co.uk</a>><br>
To: "The Community Media Association Discussion List"<br>
<<a href="mailto:cma-l@mailman.commedia.org.uk" target="_blank">cma-l@mailman.commedia.org.uk</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [cma-l] RadioCentre unimpressed with community radio<br>
changes<br>
Message-ID: <F87C18B650A048FEA0BA4A100D30EEC0@wwpc04><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"<br>
<br>
I agree that with a ?15,000 cap there is no serious threat from community stations to most commercial stations, but I'm not sure you're right regarding spot rates. Many very small commercial stations charge ?4-12 per 30s spot. Is that an order of magnitude higher than those CR stations that can sell commercial time?<br>
<br>
I might have a distorted picture from the commercial/community overlap that exists in Scotland, but I always had the impression there was significant rate overlap in the ?5-10/spot region between CR advertising rates (where available) and very small commercial station ratecards.<br>
<br>
Alex<br>
----- Original Message -----<br>
From: Geoff Rogers<br>
To: The Community Media Association Discussion List<br>
Sent: Thursday, January 22, 2015 6:21 PM<br>
Subject: Re: [cma-l] RadioCentre unimpressed with community radio changes<br>
<br>
<br>
Even the smallest commercial radio stations have advertising rates an order of magnitude higher than many (most?) Community Radio stations. (I work in both sectors so I think I have the right to comment here.)<br>
<br>
<br>
Therefore customers of Community Radio stations would be very unlikely to take out advertising on the local commercial station, so RadioCentre do not have a point here.<br>
<br>
<br>
It's this kind of comment that further alienates commercial radio operators while co-operation between the two, can and does work.<br>
<br>
<br>
These opinions are my own.<br>
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Message: 3<br>
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2015 18:49:33 -0000<br>
From: "Canalside's The Thread" <<a href="mailto:office@thethread.org.uk" target="_blank">office@thethread.org.uk</a>><br>
To: "'The Community Media Association Discussion List'"<br>
<<a href="mailto:cma-l@mailman.commedia.org.uk" target="_blank">cma-l@mailman.commedia.org.uk</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [cma-l] RadioCentre unimpressed with community radio<br>
changes<br>
Message-ID:<br>
<!&!AAAAAAAAAAAYAAAAAAAAAJdWVmK8n0ZDnFrnt7yKPuLCgAAAEAAAAIoYk2n0xVNBmtTHf+krZdcBAAAAAA==@<a href="http://thethread.org.uk" target="_blank">thethread.org.uk</a>><br>
<br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"<br>
<br>
The middle bit is the key bit here SOMEONE IN THE COMMERCIAL<br>
SECTOR DOESN'T HAVE A POINT<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
That has always been the point, my point, your point, the Community Radio<br>
point .. They don't have a point, never have and never will, there is no<br>
point.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Finally, has no one ever thought that if the rules go and the 50% even gets<br>
wavered, we could reduce our prices right down on an individual basis (which<br>
we do anyway) and then business4es in the Community could run with both<br>
and it wouldn't cost that much more and then we would all be happy.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
I am desperately trying to walk away from this debate and weigh up the<br>
options . they ain't looking good at the minute. I can't walk away because<br>
I'm getting wound up again. I wanted to remain calm ....why are words like<br>
'cop-out' 'hoodwinked' 'shafted' 'conned' 'bottled out'<br>
springing to mind ?? something must be amiss<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
I would like to receive an e-mail from someone / anyone who thinks this is<br>
brilliant ! I'm not going to argue or fall out as you are entitled to your<br>
opinion, and if you think that something has been gained (which I'm not sure<br>
if you add the others bits to the debate) it's just a bit of a token<br>
gesture.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
There's another one 'token gesture'<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Thoughts please ? obviously we have to be careful here that we<br>
don't undermine the efforts of Bill and Dom .. This is NOT a criticism of<br>
them, they have got out of this all that could be got out of it as it is the<br>
mindset at the top and the mindset in Government that has swerved. Well it<br>
hasn't, it was never on the straight and narrow from the outset.<br>
<br>
Number 6 deserves a pat on the back for everyone though .. and I mean<br>
everyone .they have moved well over half-way on that one.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Nick<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
_____<br>
<br>
From: <a href="mailto:cma-l-bounces@mailman.commedia.org.uk" target="_blank">cma-l-bounces@mailman.commedia.org.uk</a><br>
[mailto:<a href="mailto:cma-l-bounces@mailman.commedia.org.uk" target="_blank">cma-l-bounces@mailman.commedia.org.uk</a>] On Behalf Of Geoff Rogers<br>
Sent: 22 January 2015 18:22<br>
To: The Community Media Association Discussion List<br>
Subject: Re: [cma-l] RadioCentre unimpressed with community radio changes<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Even the smallest commercial radio stations have advertising rates an order<br>
of magnitude higher than many (most?) Community Radio stations. (I work in<br>
both sectors so I think I have the right to comment here.)<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Therefore customers of Community Radio stations would be very unlikely to<br>
take out advertising on the local commercial station, so RadioCentre do not<br>
have a point here.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
It's this kind of comment that further alienates commercial radio operators<br>
while co-operation between the two, can and does work.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
These opinions are my own.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
On 22 January 2015 at 16:58, Alan Coote <<a href="mailto:alan.coote@5digital.co.uk" target="_blank">alan.coote@5digital.co.uk</a>> wrote:<br>
<br>
"[CR] must offer something significantly different to the communities it<br>
serves";<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
True. I think many of my commercial radio friends would agree, that's a bit<br>
rich coming from the head of a sector which is better resourced and funded<br>
than CR, yet over the years has lacked innovation and all but erased any<br>
creativity.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Just a thought.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Alan<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
From: <a href="mailto:cma-l-bounces@mailman.commedia.org.uk" target="_blank">cma-l-bounces@mailman.commedia.org.uk</a><br>
[mailto:<a href="mailto:cma-l-bounces@mailman.commedia.org.uk" target="_blank">cma-l-bounces@mailman.commedia.org.uk</a>] On Behalf Of Martin Steers<br>
Sent: 22 January 2015 14:46<br>
To: CMA-Mailing-List<br>
Subject: [cma-l] RadioCentre unimpressed with community radio changes<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Via Radio Today:<br>
<a href="http://radiotoday.co.uk/2015/01/radiocentre-unimpressed-with-community-radio%0d-changes/" target="_blank">http://radiotoday.co.uk/2015/01/radiocentre-unimpressed-with-community-radio<br>
-changes/</a><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
RadioCentre, the industry body for commercial radio, says changes to the way<br>
community radio stations can fund themselves is a concern for commercial<br>
stations.<br>
<br>
The Government today<br>
<<a href="http://radiotoday.co.uk/2015/01/community-radio-order-updated/" target="_blank">http://radiotoday.co.uk/2015/01/community-radio-order-updated/</a>> said the<br>
not-for-profit stations can now make the majority of its income from<br>
advertising, rather than the previous 50% rule.<br>
<br>
Siobhan Kenny, Chief Executive of RadioCentre said: "This is a disappointing<br>
outcome and will be a real cause for concern for small commercial radio<br>
stations where margins are already squeezed.<br>
<br>
"The changes proposed by the Department of Culture, Media and Sport (DCMS)<br>
risk blurring the lines between community and commercial stations and puts<br>
them in direct competition for limited local advertising, alongside local<br>
press, local television and online.<br>
<br>
"Community radio can perform a valuable complementary role to commercial<br>
radio and the BBC, but it must offer something significantly different to<br>
the communities it serves. Any changes must be accompanied by a renewed<br>
emphasis on enforcement and compliance with the key commitments of these<br>
stations."<br>
<br>
The Government's announcement follows a consultation carried out by the DCMS<br>
launched in February 2013.<br>
<br>
More details on today's changes can be found<br>
<<a href="http://radiotoday.co.uk/2015/01/community-radio-order-updated/" target="_blank">http://radiotoday.co.uk/2015/01/community-radio-order-updated/</a>> here.<br>
<br>
<br>
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