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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Phil<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>You have managed to explain something in a
few sentences which took me almost a scroll ………………….
Playing devils advocate again ….. the data for the survey tool may have
to be manipulated …………… ‘sorry’ a
radio station doing a reggae programme followed a programme on claiming
benefits followed by the history of the water wheel and the local cotton and
silk industry is NOT going to win a number crunching game.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>This is not nice reading I know, but it is
a fact.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>The point I am trying to make and the
question that I am asking is ……………………..
Can Community Radio number crunch for advertising agencies etc whilst at the
same time tick all the social gain boxes …………………..
my answer to this is NO ……………. But please prove
me wrong.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Regards<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Nick<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
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face="Times New Roman"><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt'>
<hr size=2 width="100%" align=center tabindex=-1>
</span></font></div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span lang=EN-US
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font
size=2 face=Tahoma><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>
cma-l-bounces@mailman.commedia.org.uk
[mailto:cma-l-bounces@mailman.commedia.org.uk] <b><span style='font-weight:
bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>Phil Korbel<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> 03 May 2011 21:49<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> <st1:PersonName w:st="on">martin@martinsteers.co.uk</st1:PersonName><br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Cc:</span></b> Phil Edmonds;
cma-l@mailman.commedia.org.uk<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [cma-l] National
Advertising</span></font><span lang=EN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font size=3
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>Hi all<br>
<br>
just to mention that getting that 'other data' is central to the Community
Radio Fund backed project - 'Prove It' that we're just starting with ALLFM and
other <st1:City w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Manchester</st1:place></st1:City>
stations. The aim is to give stations an authoritative and affordable
survey tool that, yes, will give 'the numbers' but also assess the other
impacts - some of the social gain - that is delivered to stations' communities.
<br>
<br>
We'll be putting updates on <a href="http://www.communityradiotoolkit.net">www.communityradiotoolkit.net</a>
and on CM-L - including a frank couple of interviews with a supportive council
officers who want to see community radio doing more... stay tuned...<br>
<br>
bests<br>
<br>
Phil<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>On 1 May 2011 12:43, Martin Steers <<a
href="mailto:martin@martinsteers.co.uk">martin@martinsteers.co.uk</a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>Havent had chance to reply (in process of moving! yay)<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>RAJAR should be considered but only considered. I still think that if
we can get a trusted community radio related survey that not only provided
numbers that can be used for advertising etc but also valuable data
that the stations can actually use for other items (programming, grants etc)<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
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<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>I know many different stations already commission or run their own data
collection, but is there common methodology or has it
been independently audited.. because if we can achieve that (or a low
cost organisation thats willing to do it.. and the surveys) then that would
really help.. what a national advertising organisation then does is raise
awareness of this survey and grow trust in that data for themselves and the
rest of the community radio sector.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>There seems to be some interest.. I still think a national advertising
organisation is a viable opportunity.. and once i finish moving I might start
the ball rolling...<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>Martin<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>On Fri, Apr 29, 2011 at 9:03 PM, ROBERT TYLER <<a
href="mailto:bobtyler@btinternet.com" target="_blank">bobtyler@btinternet.com</a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
<blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;
margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm'>
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<div>
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<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>Phil<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>RAJAR is not the
ideal tool unless community radio becomes a brand, ie CR Frome or CR
Manchester 103.5fm. Then RAJAR could pick up the ‘brand’ id
as a sort of generic.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>Guessing now but
perhaps 4% of listening hours could bring in £1 – £2m with very small
cost of RAJAR and net agency commission.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>My thoughts are
that a ‘caring package’ or ‘ECO package’ is a better
direction, selling to advertisers that want to offset other spend for
whatever reason.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>This has legs.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>Bob<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'><br>
<br>
--- On <b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Tue, 26/4/11, Phil Edmonds <i><span
style='font-style:italic'><<a href="mailto:lists@philedmonds.info"
target="_blank">lists@philedmonds.info</a>></span></i></span></b> wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'><br>
From: Phil Edmonds <<a href="mailto:lists@philedmonds.info" target="_blank">lists@philedmonds.info</a>><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'><br>
Subject: Re: [cma-l] National Advertising<br>
To: <a href="mailto:cma-l@mailman.commedia.org.uk" target="_blank">cma-l@mailman.commedia.org.uk</a><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>Date: Tuesday, 26 April, 2011, 19:39<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font size=3
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>Again my personal views....<br>
<br>
On 23/04/2011 20:56, ROBERT TYLER wrote:<br>
> In any event, all of national advertising is sold based on RAJAR data,<br>
> in other words, no RAJAR no interest.<br>
<br>
Just pondering - in the last RAJAR figures, 'other listening' counts for <br>
6% reach.<br>
<br>
This 'other listening' consists of:<br>
<br>
Non RAJAR subscribing stations - i.e. many Digital only, Community, <br>
Student, Hospital and Pirate stations.<br>
'Out of area' listening (i.e. if I ticked Liverpool's '<st1:PlaceName w:st="on">Radio</st1:PlaceName>
<st1:PlaceType w:st="on">City</st1:PlaceType>' as a <br>
<st1:City w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Manchester</st1:place></st1:City>
listener I'd be in 'other listening' as I'm outside their TSA).<br>
<br>
<br>
Also RAJAR state that 25% of listening is via Digital Platforms.<br>
<br>
Therefore you could argue that discounting 25% of the 6% of 'other <br>
listening' - leaves us with Community Radio having 'the best part of' a <br>
4% audience reach.<br>
<br>
Of course some Community Radio listening is via Internet - which is <br>
Digital in the RAJAR survey and there are many other non Community <br>
'other' stations.<br>
<br>
<br>
The biggest, of many, blows to the statistical validity of this 4% <br>
figure is that there is not universal enough coverage of Community <br>
Radio. We are all so different that if a respondent in Town A listens to <br>
a Community Radio station, we can't justifiably assume that a similar <br>
demographic non surveyed listener in Town B listens to their local <br>
Community Radio station.<br>
<br>
Even if you take a margin out of the 'other listening' for listeners to <br>
non Rajar, non Community Radio, a 2% reach brings us in line with the <br>
reach of BBC 6Music - but still this is pretty dodgy ground to claim <br>
with any validity.. In any case in the commercial world there's only <br>
Premier Christian Radio, Kissmat, Buzz Asia, Gold Devon and Yorkshire <br>
Radio at such low reach figures (the first three being niche <br>
broadcasters, the last digital only and we can only assume Oldies on AM <br>
is not a mass market attraction in Devon.)<br>
<br>
So depending on how you spin it 2% may or may not be that 'attractive' a <br>
statistic.<br>
<br>
However I believe the reach of Community Radio will be greater than this <br>
- but a significant audience will only tune in for one or two specific <br>
programmes.<br>
<br>
The Rajar methodology will never work for this as the survey size is <br>
just many a factor (I'd argue at least hundreds times) too small to <br>
catch all these niche one or two hours a week listeners. BUT it is <br>
perfectly "statistically valid" to "gauge" the audience
of large <br>
mainstream radio stations.<br>
<br>
<br>
Anyway this is some food for thought - I'm sure some Rajar gurus might <br>
be able to pull apart some of this argument as I don't claim to be any <br>
expert!<br>
<br>
Phil.<br>
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
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<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font size=3
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<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font size=3
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'><br>
<br clear=all>
<br>
-- <br>
Phil Korbel<br>
Director<br>
0161 237 5454<br>
<br>
Radio Regen is a community, media and urban regeneration charity <br>
A company limited by guarantee and registered in England and Wales No. 3753832 <br>
Registered office: 12 Hilton Street, Manchester, M1 1JF <br>
Registered Charity No. 1077763 <br>
<a href="http://www.radioregen.org" target="_blank">www.radioregen.org</a><br>
<a href="http://www.communityradiotoolkit.net/consult/radio-regen-consultancy/"
target="_blank">http://www.communityradiotoolkit.net/consult/radio-regen-consultancy/</a><br>
<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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