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Well - no - which is why I wrote it that way.<BR>
The CIC works exactly as does a Limited Company (but is not entitled to style itself "Limited") and is run within its Articles (and Memoranda) by a Board of Directors - not as a club or association with Members and a Constitution.<BR>
Because it is not entitled to make a profit it will not now be accepted by HMR&C for VAT registration and hence cannot claim back Input Tax.<BR>
That is why the commercial limited company is required to be a separate trading unit in order to be able to make unrestricted profits, reclaim VAT and feed funding back to the CIC.<BR>
Corporation or any other Tax will only be paid on profits and correctly-organised accounting will ensure that this is minimised.<BR>
If properly set up, the whole system can be run on a few days a year by one sensible (probably retired) person who does not have to be an accountant but has basic mathematical skills and on an ordinary PC with no special software and three simple spreadsheets.<BR> <BR>
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To: transplanfm@hotmail.com; office@ccr-fm.co.uk; info@a-bc.co.uk; cma-l@commedia.org.uk<BR>From: tlr@gairloch.co.uk<BR>Subject: Re: [cma-l] Charitable Status<BR>Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2011 00:10:44 +0000<BR><BR>
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1 & 3 can be combined in a company limited by guarantee with a suitable constitution, which is in effect what most of us do, isn't it? <BR><BR>If you run part of the operation as a company returning profits it is subject to Corporation Tax isn't it? <BR><BR>Alex<BR><BR>
<DIV id=ecxhtc_header>----- Reply message -----<BR>From: "Ian Hickling" <transplanfm@hotmail.com><BR>Date: Sat, Feb 5, 2011 18:57<BR>Subject: [cma-l] Charitable Status<BR>To: "office@ccr-fm.co.uk" <office@ccr-fm.co.uk>, "Glyn Gloss" <info@a-bc.co.uk>, "cma-l" <cma-l@commedia.org.uk><BR><BR></DIV> <BR>As I have said many times - the obvious solution is to run three businesses concurrently:<BR> <BR>1 - The Community Radio station as a CIC which does not return a profit.<BR>2 - A Charitable arm which can accept charitable donations which does not retrun a profit and feeds the station.<BR>3 - A commercial limited company which can return a profit from a wide range of activities, is VAT-registered and feeds the station.<BR> <BR>It's sensible business practice - not rocket science.<BR> <BR>To lose that much VAT by default is just plain stupid - sorry!<BR> <BR>
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From: office@ccr-fm.co.uk<BR>To: info@a-bc.co.uk; cma-l@commedia.org.uk<BR>Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2011 14:34:48 +0000<BR>Subject: Re: [cma-l] charity status<BR><BR>
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<P class=ecxMsoNormal><FONT color=navy size=2 face=Arial><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Glyn n all</SPAN></FONT></P>
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<P class=ecxMsoNormal><FONT color=navy size=2 face=Arial><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Thanks Glyn
. As I said
. It looks like everyone is fumbling around in the dark. Either we can as a fraturnity / brotherhood or we cant
.. which is it
. ?? I dunno?</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=ecxMsoNormal><FONT color=navy size=2 face=Arial><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> </SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=ecxMsoNormal><FONT color=navy size=2 face=Arial><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Regards</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=ecxMsoNormal><FONT color=navy size=2 face=Arial><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> </SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=ecxMsoNormal><FONT color=navy size=2 face=Arial><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Nick</SPAN></FONT></P>
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<P class=ecxMsoNormal><B><FONT size=2 face=Tahoma><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-WEIGHT: bold" lang=EN-US>From:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT size=2 face=Tahoma><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma; FONT-SIZE: 10pt" lang=EN-US> glyn.m.roylance@googlemail.com [mailto:glyn.m.roylance@googlemail.com] <B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">On Behalf Of </SPAN></B>Associated Broadcast Consultants<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> 04 February 2011 22:59<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> Office - ccr-fm<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Cc:</SPAN></B> CMA-L<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> Re: [cma-l] charity status</SPAN></FONT><SPAN lang=EN-US></SPAN></P></DIV>
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<P class=ecxMsoNormal><FONT size=3 face="Times New Roman"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Yes we had the same experience. Essentially we discovered that a community radio station could not be a charity unless it fulfilled one of a number of narrow categories . ie: if we decided to be a religious radio station then bingo, but we did not want to go that way.</SPAN></FONT></P>
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<P class=ecxMsoNormal><FONT size=3 face="Times New Roman"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Instead we went down the CIC route. It was "sold" to us as being equivalent to being a charity, but from a recent approach from Inland Revenue I think it might have some drawbacks compared to being a charity (they seem to treat us like any other ommercial Ltd company) - but I'm not an expert.</SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
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<P class=ecxMsoNormal><FONT size=3 face="Times New Roman"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Glyn Roylance</SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
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<P class=ecxMsoNormal><FONT size=3 face="Times New Roman"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">GLOSS FM.org</SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
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<P class=ecxMsoNormal><FONT size=3 face="Times New Roman"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">On 4 February 2011 18:16, Office - ccr-fm <<A href="mailto:office@ccr-fm.co.uk">office@ccr-fm.co.uk</A>> wrote:</SPAN></FONT></P>
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<P class=ecxMsoNormal><FONT size=2 face=Arial><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Dear All</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=ecxMsoNormal><FONT size=2 face=Arial><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> </SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=ecxMsoNormal><FONT size=2 face=Arial><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Just a quick enquiry
. Does anyone know how many Community Radio Stations in our fraturnity/brotherhood are actually charities ?? I know that we looked into it 7 years ago but the process was a complete nightmare. Also, in 2004 I clearly remember that the Charities commision simply had NO category for radio
.. it was almost as if they didnt understand it >?>? I think the key to it and the crux of the matter was that we were technically all over the place in what we were providing
in otherwords, providing a lot, but nothing specific ! almost a jack of all trades but master of none</SPAN></FONT></P>
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<P class=ecxMsoNormal><FONT size=2 face=Arial><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Have any of you guys had a similar experience ? I seem to recall that there is a station on the south coast as a charity ?? plus Regen (near to us) in South Manchester who do run Wythenshawe FM and ALL FM
outside of that, Im a bit clueless to be honest
. Any ideas ?</SPAN></FONT></P>
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<P class=ecxMsoNormal><FONT size=2 face=Arial><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">What about Sheffield and of course the CMA ?</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=ecxMsoNormal><FONT size=2 face=Arial><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> </SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=ecxMsoNormal><FONT size=2 face=Arial><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Many thanks</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=ecxMsoNormal><FONT size=2 face=Arial><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> </SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=ecxMsoNormal><FONT size=2 face=Arial><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Regards</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=ecxMsoNormal><FONT size=2 face=Arial><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> </SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=ecxMsoNormal><FONT size=2 face=Arial><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Nick</SPAN></FONT></P></DIV></DIV>
<P style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt" class=ecxMsoNormal><FONT size=3 face="Times New Roman"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><BR>_______________________________________________<BR><BR>cma-l mailing list - <A href="mailto:cma-l@commedia.org.uk">cma-l@commedia.org.uk</A><BR><BR>Community Media Association - <A href="http://www.commedia.org.uk/" target=_blank>http://www.commedia.org.uk</A><BR>Twitter: <A href="http://twitter.com/community_media" target=_blank>http://twitter.com/community_media</A><BR>Facebook Fans: <A href="http://bit.ly/cog8n5" target=_blank>http://bit.ly/cog8n5</A><BR>Canstream Internet Radio: <A href="http://www.canstream.co.uk/" target=_blank>http://www.canstream.co.uk/</A><BR>_______________________________________________<BR><BR>To unsubscribe or manage your CMA-L mailing list subscription please visit:<BR><A href="http://mailman.commedia.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/cma-l" target=_blank>http://mailman.commedia.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/cma-l</A></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<P style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt" class=ecxMsoNormal><FONT size=3 face="Times New Roman"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><BR><BR clear=all><BR>-- <BR>GLOSS FM now broadcasting on 87.7FM across South Gloucestershire<BR><A href="http://www.glossfm.org/" target=_blank>http://www.glossfm.org</A>.<BR>Why not download the GLOSS FM browser toolbar for easy access to radio player, local information and more!<BR><A href="http://glossfm.toolbar.fm/" target=_blank>http://GLOSSFM.Toolbar.fm/</A></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV></DIV><BR>_______________________________________________ cma-l mailing list - cma-l@commedia.org.uk Community Media Association - http://www.commedia.org.uk Twitter: http://twitter.com/community_media Facebook Fans: http://bit.ly/cog8n5 Canstream Internet Radio: http://www.canstream.co.uk/ _______________________________________________ To unsubscribe or manage your CMA-L mailing list subscription please visit: http://mailman.commedia.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/cma-l </body>
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