[cma-l] News release from PPL

Thu Jun 1 13:53:46 BST 2017

Bill

I know the rules, but     good stuff, well done and thanks for explaining them again for the point of this discussion. I’m not possibly explaining myself very well. Trimming it down in a nutshell, what I am trying to say is :-

1.	I purchase it, so they receive money
2.	I broadcast it, so this benefits them and perhaps more people go and purchase it

I repeat …. Where the issue gets confused is the ‘Piracy’ debated gets slung into the mix. It’s hard to Police so they don’t even go there – take the easy way out and go for the ones who can easily be milked.

You see a key word in here that fits this discussion is the word   ‘’’shared’’’       ‘cannot be shared’            shared for Piracy / Copy reasons or shared so that they can receive exposure and promotion and gain from it. I say again, the ‘sharing’ on the Piracy front is WRONG (I agree) but is not easy to Police, but the other sharing is.

This is the point I am trying to make and this is why we have this rule / law       I don’t agree with it, but we’re lumped with it, and for sure a mere insect like me ain’t gonna change things.

Always a good one though to get the heart pumping   😊

Onwards and Upwards

Nick

From: cma-l-bounces at mailman.commedia.org.uk [mailto:cma-l-bounces at mailman.commedia.org.uk] On Behalf Of Bill Best
Sent: 31 May 2017 18:35
To: The Community Media Association Discussion List <cma-l at mailman.commedia.org.uk>
Subject: Re: [cma-l] News release from PPL

Hi Nick

 I always thought if you buy it, it becomes yours to do what the hell you want with it.

Ah, that's the problem, right there.

When you buy the item you are granted a limited set of rights as to how you might use it. You can play it at home, to a few friends, perhaps even play it at a party with your friends if the mood takes you.

However, you are not granted the right to do "what the hell you want with it".

If you look closely, the CD will have "All rights reserved" printed on it somewhere. This is a copyright formality indicating that the copyright holder reserves, or holds for their own use, all the rights provided by copyright law i.e. the content cannot be copied, shared, publicly performed, etc.

And it actually doesn't matter whether the item has "All rights reserved" printed on it or not as the rights of artists, writers, and content creators are automatically protected worldwide without any formal notice of copyright under the Buenos Aires Convention of 1910.

An analogy is if you bought a copy of a DVD (remember them?) and decided to set up your own cinema without going through the appropriate licensing process. You can see that such an arrangement might not be very fair to the originators of the DVD.

Another analogy, whilst we are here, is if you bought a copy of a computer programme/application and decided that you wanted to share it via BitTorrent ("Because you bought it and you can do what the hell you want with it"). Is this allowed? No, it certainly isn't.

Purchase of an item of media generally confers a limited set of rights which usually excludes an automatic right to broadcast it.

Hope that helps and best regards

Bill

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On 31 May 2017 at 16:15, Canalside's Thread events guide for NE Cheshire <office at thethread.org.uk <mailto:office at thethread.org.uk> > wrote:

Then the age old argument kicks in that we’re paying twice !       I buy a CD from Uncle Elton for £10 quid, broadcast it, 500 more folk go and buy it and then some money making racket who he’s signed up to charge me for the pleasure ???!        it’s got to be the best system in the World. I always thought if you buy it it becomes yours to do what the hell you want with it. As always though the ‘Piracy’ argument gets dragged into the debate. If the ‘’’work’’’ has been ‘Pirated’ or ‘nicked’ ‘thieved’ ‘half-hinched’   then it doesn’t belong to you. Artists, song writers, publishers, record companies get their monies and dues from what they sell, AND YES they deserved to be paid for it ….. it’s quite simple really ….. it’s made deliberately difficult because it is what I said at the outset ……….. a money making racket that is conveniently backed up by certain laws.

So far as James final point goes     just for the record ---- I don’t use PPL material that I/We don’t like, so basically they don’t get their lolly …. We PURCHASE / BUY material we do like and we promote it. A nice two way street, we help them, they help us …. Trouble is, at the end of the deal they send us a Bill.

Sorry guys and gals, I know we’re lumped with it and that’s life, but I’m sticking to my beliefs       it’s never right in the memory of man

Nick HD

From:  <mailto:cma-l-bounces at mailman.commedia.org.uk> cma-l-bounces at mailman.commedia.org.uk [mailto: <mailto:cma-l-bounces at mailman.commedia.org.uk> cma-l-bounces at mailman.commedia.org.uk] On Behalf Of James Cridland
Sent: 31 May 2017 00:17
To: The Community Media Association Discussion List < <mailto:cma-l at mailman.commedia.org.uk> cma-l at mailman.commedia.org.uk>;  <mailto:martin at martinsteers.co.uk> martin at martinsteers.co.uk

Subject: Re: [cma-l] News release from PPL

>I didn’t suggest the artists shouldn’t be paid – they would in effect be invited to effectively donate 0.1% of their dues

PPL is for record companies, not artists. It's up to record companies how they pay their artists, not PPL.

PPL does blanket deals on behalf of the record companies. So, if you want to change how PPL charges, start with the record companies, not PPL.

As ever, if you don't want to pay your PPL bill, you don't have to. Just don't broadcast any PPL repertoire. And if you're claiming that would be impossible, look at every single podcast out there and wonder how they get billions of downloads without any PPL repertoire...

On Wed., 31 May 2017, 03:21 Alex Gray, Two Lochs Radio, <tlr at gairloch.co.uk <mailto:tlr at gairloch.co.uk> > wrote:

I didn’t suggest the artists shouldn’t be paid – they would in effect be invited to effectively donate 0.1% of their dues to support a worthy sector that works for social gain, supports smaller artists, is tightly regulated and easily identified. 

Also bear in mind only 40% of the PPL distribution goes to the performers – the majority of it is distributed to the big record labels whose interests PPL primarily serves.

I don’t think Glastonbury and co would be greatly affected since they are mostly live performance – not much of Glastobury is playback of phonographic recordings is it?!

Fetes, villages halls etc are generally already on lower cost flat rate licences.

Alex

From:  <mailto:cma-l-bounces at mailman.commedia.org.uk> cma-l-bounces at mailman.commedia.org.uk [mailto: <mailto:cma-l-bounces at mailman.commedia.org.uk> cma-l-bounces at mailman.commedia.org.uk] On Behalf Of Martin Steers
Sent: 30 May 2017 17:48
To: CMA-Mailing-List < <mailto:cma-l at mailman.commedia.org.uk> cma-l at mailman.commedia.org.uk>

Subject: Re: [cma-l] News release from PPL

Do we not believe that artists should receive due renumeration for their work? Would we expect all our staff to work for little or nothing?

Also what about all the other not for profit activities, fates, events and isn't Glastonbury technically not for profit?

I like the idealism and if we could get some big name artists to agree or propose it.

On May 30, 2017 5:39 PM, "Alex Gray, Two Lochs Radio" <tlr at gairloch.co.uk <mailto:tlr at gairloch.co.uk> > wrote:

Ha, I’ll collect the award later Nick.

But seriously, it does show that PPL has plenty of scope to propose to its members that they could introduce a social benefit licence scheme for very little cost by offering a low cost flat-fee (say £200) licence to stations constituted to operate not-for-profit and for social gain.

A back of the envelope calculation suggests this might drop their revenue from £212.1m to £211.8m (ie by about 0.15%).

So it would make the tiniest difference to their bottom line, while making a big difference to many hard-pressed community operations, while PPL would get the publicity kudos of showing what excellent public benefit-minded souls they are, and also support stations that tend to give more exposure to their less well-known and less well-heeled members.

Must go now – I want to try and get a photo of the pig that just passed my window.

Alex

From:  <mailto:cma-l-bounces at mailman.commedia.org.uk> cma-l-bounces at mailman.commedia.org.uk [mailto: <mailto:cma-l-bounces at mailman.commedia.org.uk> cma-l-bounces at mailman.commedia.org.uk] On Behalf Of Canalside Community Radio Ltd
Sent: 30 May 2017 15:39

To: 'The Community Media Association Discussion List' < <mailto:cma-l at mailman.commedia.org.uk> cma-l at mailman.commedia.org.uk>

Subject: Re: [cma-l] News release from PPL

Alex

If you going for the wind-up-merchant of the year award 2017     I think you’ve just won it    LOL   :

Nick

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