[cma-l] been thinking ???
admin at edenfm.co.uk
admin at edenfm.co.uk
Tue Jul 18 08:48:55 BST 2017
Hi Clive
My take on what you are saying, is for the community stations to get together and run the SSDAB for the area. For the right structure of company and have the community stations as the members/shareholders.
That way, you can rent space to Heart Herts and anyone else for that matter. Global don’t have to be any part of it, other than a customer.
That is something which could work where there are overlapping community stations.
-Nigel-
Eden FM Radio Ltd
Address: Mostyn Hall, Friargate, Penrith CA11 7XR
Office: 01768 899 101
Studio: 01768 899 107
Email: <mailto:admin at edenfm.co.uk> admin at edenfm.co.uk
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From: cma-l-bounces at mailman.commedia.org.uk [mailto:cma-l-bounces at mailman.commedia.org.uk] On Behalf Of Clive Glover
Sent: 17 July 2017 15:00
To: The Community Media Association Discussion List <cma-l at mailman.commedia.org.uk>
Subject: Re: [cma-l] been thinking ???
As ever, the devil is in the detail.
The OFCOM "notional" frequency plan for our area (South Hertfordshire) actually incorporates three existing local radio services - us (Radio Verulam in St Albans), Vibe (Watford) and (I kid you not!) a service called Heart Herts. The latter is a "small commercial" service which is not on DAB yet. Honest! It is a separate company which originally run the local commercial service but was taken over by Global (100%) but not absorbed into Global plc. So it counts as a small commercial service even though its programmes are almost entirely the same as the regional Heart service (which is on DAB already).
Apart from the service issues there is a problem with having a DAB multiplex covering three adjacent areas like this when two stations are Community and one is commercial. If the SSDAB rules say multiplex operators cannot include a company already a multiplex operator (i.e. Global) then presumably a 100% owned subsidiary can't be part of the SSDAB operator. Or can it? And the operator can't have shareholders if it is to be a Company Limited by Guarantee to make it a not-for -profit company. So, does this mean that the two CR stations will need to set up and fund a "large SSDAB" which may require 5 or 6 or more transmitters to cover the area?
I hope the now long-awaited consultations will clarify all this but I suspect they won't!
Clive Glover
Radio Verulam 92.6FM
St Albans
http://www.radioverulam.com
On 17 Jul 2017, at 14:31, Richard Hilton wrote:
Mike
' but one snippet says that the SSDAB multiplexes are to be operated on a not-for-profit basis'. This is what we should be pushing for. And pushing hard. But I'm not sure It is in the Act. Mike, can you point us to what you saw this.
I think the big commercial operators will look SSDAB over as they already have the infrastructure in place so it could possibly become quite a cost effective add-on for them and helps to spread their costs.
Richard
-----Original Message-----
From: cma-l-bounces at mailman.commedia.org.uk <mailto:cma-l-bounces at mailman.commedia.org.uk> [mailto:cma-l-bounces at mailman.commedia.org.uk] On Behalf Of Mike Davison
Sent: 17 July 2017 10:47
To: cma-l at mailman.commedia.org.uk <mailto:cma-l at mailman.commedia.org.uk>
Subject: Re: [cma-l] been think Really? Pleaseing ???
I also have not the patience to go through the nitty-gritty of the new Act but one snippet says that the SSDAB multiplexes are to be operated on a not-for-profit basis so I can't see the big commercials going for it or getting involved. It is entirely up to us and I am sure the financing of each multiplex will become more affordable than is being suggested in time judging by my experiences with the software.
Mike D. Tempo FM.
On 17/07/2017 09:31, Canalside's Thread events guide for NE Cheshire wrote:
David / Nigel / Mike n' all
I always appreciate a reply chaps. Thank you.
You will find that the majority of folk in our sector don't actually know the full ins and outs mainly due to not having enough time to go through it all. Unfortunately I don't have time to sit watching debates all day long and can only rely on soundbites and tit-bits of information from our crew. I also can't attend every meeting, I try my best to attend as many as possible.
In the last 5 weeks alone we have had 26 Youngsters in with us, all learning about and enjoying taking part in Broadcasting. Every single one of them has enjoyed it with 15 of them staying with us as full-time Volunteers / Presenters. We have another three this week and then we get a breather.
We have also re-introduced some of our past Programming to which once again there is a clear divide now between us and commercial radio output. As one is not aiming for the 'masses' and owing to the fact that we operate over a very small area Financial support from Government level is essential. The DCMS set this Community Ship a sail back in 2003 and then abandoned it in the middle of the Ocean. In basic simple common sense terms you can't have a useless Radio Support Fund plus Restrictions. It can only be one or the other -------- common sense tells us that.
This bill WAS hi-jacked by Commercial Radio from the outset (and quite frankly it has nothing to do with them at all) and we have always been on the back foot and second fiddle. My reaction to the latest 'bill' was prompted by the latest Minister (Mr Hancocks) opening speech. We weren't even mentioned as an afterthought, so like I say, apologies if I don't get the chance to sit watching debates.
I'm more than prepared to stick my head up above the parapet even if from time to time it is an '''ooops''' '''missed that one''' if it creates 'debate' and we are all better informed (David / Mike / Nigel / Bill) have done exactly that. So thank you for that.
However, going back to simplistic lingo. I have been listening and watching from afar and attending some meetings and the main thrust and crux of the conversation is Small Scale DAB. There was actually a key reason as to why I didn't attend this meeting and it was posted. My rhetoric didn't just come from some fruit and nutcase in Bollington as a voice crying in the wilderness, but a voice that was actually speaking up for the silent majority.
What is the point of turning up for a meeting like this when one hasn't got a cat in hells chance of being able to implement it ???? that is why I did not attend the meeting ...... no other reason. We can barely afford what we've got and keeping it running is a challenge. I shall continue to speak out for the silent majority, even if one or two of my facts might be slightly off-piste.
Perhaps = £16,000 Grand per-year per Station and no restrictions would allow us to function properly and afford all the fruits of Radio. The more money we receive from Central Government means the less money we chase and take from the Commercial sector --- a win/win for everyone.
Going back to my original blast, I was always on the assumption that even though we are called Community Radio, technically we are Small Scale FM aren’t we ?? --- I just took the introduction of Small Scale DAB to mean the same thing FOR the same people.
Without reading bills and debates would it be correct to now assume that the New Bill is to please the Commercial sector ? ie:- a bigger scale altogether and that as you guys say the Small Scale DAB is for Community Stations [ONLY] if of course they can afford it.
On a final note, I take a lot of pleasure in knowing that regardless of my possibly unorthodox style I just '''may/might''' have in some areas helped shape (a little) Community Radio over the years even if only giving the alternative picture (perhaps with a few mistakes?) and the concerns of those people who in fairness have been on the receiving end of a lot of nonsense.
I didn't suddenly wake up one morning and think ''what shall I do today ? I know, have a go at Commercial Radio'' I have a pop when I see things that we finish up on the receiving end of. I believe nationally and '''certainly''' locally we have had a lot to endure. Unfortunately I can't tell you everything that has gone on as it would possibly overload the Internet.
So to conclude, we can all live happily ever after now following this in-house debate ....... Small Scale DAB for Community Radio only ----- bigger Multiplexes for the Commercial Sector only ..... an affordable route for Community Radio, no hijacking, Commercial Radio possibly having a nudge nudge wink wink in a Ministers ear stating that after 15 Years possibly restrictions on Small Fry Radio are simply not Cricket and at last against all odds the Kings Horses and Kings Men have actually managed to put Humpty back together again.
Nick HD onwards and upwards I say and a big thanks to Nigel / Mike and David for clarifying things for us all, much appreciated.
PS :- and the big question which was asked by moi over 12 months ago --- if Canalside Community Radio were to go onto DAB (small scale) tomorrow .... how much will it cost ? the original figure that was thrown up came with some Pie-in-the-Sky has the cost gone down considerably ?
-----Original Message-----
From: cma-l-bounces at mailman.commedia.org.uk <mailto:cma-l-bounces at mailman.commedia.org.uk>
[mailto:cma-l-bounces at mailman.commedia.org.uk] On Behalf Of David
(Niocast Digital)
Sent: 15 July 2017 18:02
To: The Community Media Association Discussion List
<cma-l at mailman.commedia.org.uk <mailto:cma-l at mailman.commedia.org.uk> >
Subject: Re: [cma-l] been thinking ???
Hi Nick
>From what you’ve written, it appears that you don’t know - the Bill isn’t ‘still going through Parliament at the moment’. It was passed into law back in April. It is now the 'Broadcasting (Radio Multiplex Services) Act 2017’. Have a read. It wasn’t hijacked by anyone.
If you took the time to watch any of the debates in the House you would have heard a succession of Members, from both sides, talk effusively about their community radio stations. The Bill had full cross party support and was passed without commercial/community interference. In fact, it contains a number of recommendations in favour of community radio. Primarily that capacity on small scale multiplexes is to be reserved for community stations. It also provides that existing owners and those with an interest in national and local multiplexes are disqualified from being able to hold a small scale DAB licence. So where’s the hijack by commercial radio?
You might have been better informed if you’d attended the excellent event that Bill and Martin (et Al) staged in March for the community radio sector (SSDAB & Community Radio) . Or perhaps read the Act.
There is to be a DCMS/Ofcom consultation in the autumn to frame the licensing process for small scale DAB. Can I suggest that you use that to contribute to helping shape the digital future for community radio.
David
Niocast Digital - operator of the Manchester small scale DAB multiplex
On 15 Jul 2017, at 15:33, <admin at edenfm.co.uk <mailto:admin at edenfm.co.uk> > <admin at edenfm.co.uk <mailto:admin at edenfm.co.uk> > wrote:
Hi Nick
Re SSDAB you said “I see the thing has yet again been hi-jacked by commercial radio as there is no show without Punch and they’ve got their conks poked in it again.”
Can you point us to something which shows that please, as I’d like to take a look?
Thanks.
-Nigel-
Eden FM Radio Ltd
Address: Mostyn Hall, Friargate, Penrith CA11 7XR
Office: 01768 899 101
Studio: 01768 899 107
Email: admin at edenfm.co.uk <mailto:admin at edenfm.co.uk>
Facebook: /EdenFMonline
Twitter: @edenfmradio
From: cma-l-bounces at mailman.commedia.org.uk <mailto:cma-l-bounces at mailman.commedia.org.uk>
[mailto:cma-l-bounces at mailman.commedia.org.uk] On Behalf Of
Canalside's Thread events guide for NE Cheshire
Sent: 14 July 2017 15:27
To: 'The Community Media Association Discussion List'
<cma-l at mailman.commedia.org.uk <mailto:cma-l at mailman.commedia.org.uk> >
Subject: Re: [cma-l] been thinking ???
Alan et al
My sentiments also. I have been saying for years that if someone is advertising across social media / papers / magazines / commercial radio adding another string to the bow (ie:- US) does no harm. It does no harm because 1) the amount of cost involved is literally peanuts in most cases certainly in our case 2) and if you’ve got a double whammy on the go hitting both eyes and ears then you have more chance of pinching a sale from your competitors.
Alan is correct, but more so in the fact that all this baloney and malarkey regarding figures is exactly that = A Load of Baloney !! it will always fall back to the proof of the pudding in the eating. Has no one ever given a thought to the fact that certain things sell better on Community Radio than on Commercial and visa versa ……… I suggest what we do is work out which ………. I’ve given you two already – Handymen and Painters and Decorators ……… they can’t afford Commercial Radio prices anyway
Oooooops here we go again, Wrighty drifting off into another one of his ramblings about restrictions 😊 LOL of course this was one of the original arguments against restrictions back in 2003 the fact that in the main there was no clash as many costs were simply too much on Commercial Radio for the Local Butcher, Baker and Candlestickmaker --------- all the facts are there staring you in the face, trouble is if the Commercial sector are wining and dining the DCMS, then we ain’t gonna get very far are we, sadly for the wrong reasons.
…certainly back in 2003 / 2004 / 2005 when we came out of the starting blocks only to find ourselves running up an extremely steep hill as opposed to a level flat. Not much seems to have changed, we’re still the underdog and in most cases going backwards through no fault of our own …. Which clearly is not acceptable.
Back to the script, figures are whatever you want them to be --- I am surprised and extremely disappointed that when experts try to help us with at least some kind of guidelines, some take it to have a pop at them.
I suggest those folk (whoever they are / you are) start having a pop at the ones who are our pains in the butt, not the ones trying to help.
On a slightly different subject I had to laugh at the Radio Hub meeting a month ago in Wycombe when Bill was explaining about the (Bill) (pardon the pun) going through Parliament at the moment in relation to small scale DAB …. Of course the route it will be taking is past the dining tables awash with wine and then onto Law. I see the thing has yet again been hi-jacked by commercial radio as there is no show without Punch and they’ve got their conks poked in it again.
My working class laymans terminology would have simply been that we are basically already operating as Small Scale FM (that’s what we are)(dress it up how you want, call it what you want, that’s what we are) … so where’s the difference ? I don’t see a difference ? NO Commercial wallers are on small scale FM so why has it been allowed to be hijacked again ? apparently our team raised a few pointers that could have rocked the Boat slightly … and were accosted and told to be quiet and go and stand in the little boys corner as it could upset the applecart and delay the Bill.
I’m afraid to say, that if they had said that to me in the meeting I would have let em av it lock stock and barrel.
Respect for the authorities went out the window with me a long long time ago. By the way, anyone whoi stands up at Conference in September bleeting on about this will be tackled yet again from the auditorium by moi with a microphone or without.
I repeat ………. On top of all the other balls-ups over the past 14 years, here we yet again have another to add to the list. Mark my words, it will come back to haunt us, the door is open, the wedge is in and the unscrupulous are poised to pounce. Best go and set up the fall back plan Third Fiddle DAB Personally, all I think has happened over the years is we have been patronised, and I reckon this new guy Hancocks is going to be the worst one of the lot. By all means send him this e-mail and let him prove me wrong.
It’ll be yet another Humpty I told you so.
Nick
From: cma-l-bounces at mailman.commedia.org.uk <mailto:cma-l-bounces at mailman.commedia.org.uk>
[mailto:cma-l-bounces at mailman.commedia.org.uk] On Behalf Of Alan
Coote
Sent: 14 July 2017 14:01
To: cma-l at mailman.commedia.org.uk <mailto:cma-l at mailman.commedia.org.uk>
Subject: Re: [cma-l] been thinking ???
Nick,
What that radio centre research (£7 for every £1 invested) didn’t explain is the exceptions to the rule, of which there are many.
Advertiser’s ROI varies considerably and I personally only use the 7:1 ratio to put radio in context with other forms of advertising. It’s not a very reliable metric.
Using radio in conjunction with online advertising (so called cross media) in my view gives significantly more reliable results.
I think you have a much more powerful local story to tell of advertisers receiving a great response from their spending with you.
Kind Regards
Alan
Alan Coote
Email - alan.coote at MonogramMedia.co.uk <mailto:alan.coote at MonogramMedia.co.uk> Phone - 0800 949 6655 Mobile -
07801 518858 Twitter - @TheAlanCoote
Twitter - @LTBShow
Join Fortune Copilot - The World Leading Entrepreneurs Community
HERE
From: <cma-l-bounces at mailman.commedia.org.uk <mailto:cma-l-bounces at mailman.commedia.org.uk> > on behalf of Canalside
Community Radio Ltd <office at canalsideradio.net <mailto:office at canalsideradio.net> >
Reply-To: "cma-l at mailman.commedia.org.uk <mailto:cma-l at mailman.commedia.org.uk> "
<cma-l at mailman.commedia.org.uk <mailto:cma-l at mailman.commedia.org.uk> >
Date: Friday, 14 July 2017 at 13:00
To: "cma-l at mailman.commedia.org.uk <mailto:cma-l at mailman.commedia.org.uk> " <cma-l at mailman.commedia.org.uk <mailto:cma-l at mailman.commedia.org.uk> >
Subject: [cma-l] been thinking ???
Dear All
I have been thinking about this for a long time now and similar discussions pop up from time to time on our message board. It’s all connected with the usual malarkey about rajar and figures and who’s listening, who isn’t, for how long etc etc ……… in the same ball park area of course we have the attack from social media (commercial radio under the same onslaught as well) so it’s not just us …..and even they are going back to basics on their new campaigns.
Reminding people that in the main Radio Adverts are difficult to miss or avoid because they are in real time, one is not always in a position to meddle and even if driving other things occupy your mind (or at least they ought to do)(one being concentration) that even with the best intention, Station hopping doesn’t actually happen, it is just a myth, and a lot of folk have given it up because just like on the extra Channels on TV, when you skip over from the adverts you end up with more adverts at the same time on the other channels anyway. I suppose you could go to the BBC but ?
Link all of this with a figure that I have been hearing for a long time now, and a figure that pops up in some of the strangest places and strangest conversations with people who you think ‘’how do you know that ?’’ I have had meetings with Senior bosses, Council Officials, Charities and this topic has cropped up -------- the figure being for every £1 spent, an investor and/or advertiser can expect to receive £8 quids worth of business in return.
Good stuff I say.
This of course is the figure banded around by commercial radio .. personally seeing as they have [apparently] nudged ahead of the BBC, that figure I suppose could be claimed as £9 quid .. But £8 quid will do for this argument.
That leads me on to the assistance we received on these matters from James Cridland and a few other people. As with lots of organisations you can very easily find yourself in those little irritating situations ‘’damned if I do, damned if I don’t’’ scenario and/or ‘’you can’t do right for doing wrong’’ I never noticed myself but ‘’’apparently’’’ all these guidelines and figures have been ‘taken-down’ owing to some folk taking offence to them ???? why ? surely some kind of guideline or rule of thumb is better than going around in circles, banging ones head against a brick wall and getting absolutely nowhere ? so well done to those people who stand up, stick their heads above the parapet and ‘get on with it’ reminds me a bit of the Mother Teresa Anyway Poem
We at Canalside are sticking with the old rule of thumb guidelines from our kind helpers & experts as the figures for us dropped within the 250 figure marker which we worked out over a period of 2 years ---- in Radio terms basically ‘bang on !’ I reckon if it fits us, then it fits most others.
I couldn’t give a flying cactus about the commercial radio big-wigs poking their conks in on the figures nor those in Noddyland who seem to want to claim that all and sundrie are listening when actually their figures are quite average just like the rest of us.
I have always been a believer that ‘’’average’’’ figures for us at Community Radio is actually a success story and not a hindrance. Remember that we hit more people because of the diversity and variety and going off the beaten track ---- they may listen for slightly less hours, but there’s more of them.
So, after going through the Trees, uphill and down dale, cut to the chase. I’m not a very good mathematician but looking at the commercial radio figures and comparing them to the Community Radio figures (using rule of thumb and taking into consideration the pointers I have made) every £1 spent with Community Radio equates to £4 - £5 pounds in return. About £4.60p actually ….. which over a smaller coverage area and LOCAL is very good.
I personally think that is good …………… what are the thoughts of everyone on the board and our head honchos please? Bear-in-mind that there is one figure that is always missing on this and that is the key figure on ‘take up’ I was told many many moons ago that for every hundred folk, 7 do something positve about it. Of course it depends on the product and the type of event as some will be more popular than others, but the average it’s 7 people.
Discuss 😊
Oh by the way, if there is anyone a bit backward of coming forward, take note that we can use whatever figures we want, it is no business of commercial radio ---- at the end of the day the proof of the pudding is in the eating. We have had a couple of nice puddings recently with a handyman coming on-board with us and within 6 weeks increasing the size of the Package because he has been snowed under with calls for work which will now take him up to and beyond Chrimbo ……….. another chap (a Painter and decorator)(and sadly you may recall this has happened before where we can become victims of our own success) he has cancelled his advertising with us as he received 31 phone calls within the space of a couple of months which he has turned into 21 jobs --- he now doesn’t need the money. He kindly agreed to see out the contract. His final payment goes out next month.
Worth noting though that owing to grant funding virtually being none existant and a community radio fund that is ‘crap’ [ yes, unprofessional to use words like that, but I will do anyway, because it is ----] then the £1 into £5 doesn’t really apply because according to my figures we’re only allowed £3 quid.
I say it again, the restrictions need to go …. That’s 14 years I have been saying it and still counting and it is a fact that without Jaqui, Dom and Bills Volunteer time the majority of us would have been up swannee creek without both paddles !! …………… you can argue with me on this till the Cows come home, sadly it is a fact ! as a brotherly Community of Radio Operators it’s time we started facing up to the facts and stopped allowing others to brush things aside, under the carpet or hoodwink their way through proceedings. They’ve never kidded me.
Onwards and Upwards though
Nicholas H Dumpty
Station Plate Spinner
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Canalside Community Radio Ltd.
Canal 2B,
Clarence Mill,
Bollington,
Cheshire,
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01625 576689
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