[cma-l] been thinking ???

admin at edenfm.co.uk admin at edenfm.co.uk
Sat Jul 15 15:33:06 BST 2017

Hi Nick

Re SSDAB you said “I see the thing has yet again been hi-jacked by commercial radio as there is no show without Punch and they’ve got their conks poked in it again.”

Can you point us to something which shows that please, as I’d like to take a look?




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From: cma-l-bounces at mailman.commedia.org.uk [mailto:cma-l-bounces at mailman.commedia.org.uk] On Behalf Of Canalside's Thread events guide for NE Cheshire
Sent: 14 July 2017 15:27
To: 'The Community Media Association Discussion List' <cma-l at mailman.commedia.org.uk>
Subject: Re: [cma-l] been thinking ???


Alan et al


My sentiments also. I have been saying for years that if someone is advertising across social media / papers / magazines / commercial radio adding another string to the bow (ie:- US) does no harm. It does no harm because     1) the amount of cost involved is literally peanuts in most cases certainly in our case     2) and if you’ve got a double whammy on the go hitting both eyes and ears then you have more chance of pinching a sale from your competitors.


Alan is correct, but more so in the fact that all this baloney and malarkey regarding figures is exactly that = A Load of Baloney !!     it will always fall back to the proof of the pudding in the eating. Has no one ever given a thought to the fact that certain things sell better on Community Radio than on Commercial and visa versa ……… I suggest what we do is work out which ………. I’ve given you two already – Handymen and Painters and Decorators ……… they can’t afford Commercial Radio prices anyway


Oooooops     here we go again, Wrighty drifting off into another one of his ramblings about restrictions   😊    LOL              of course this was one of the original arguments against restrictions back in 2003      the fact that in the main there was no clash as many costs were simply too much on Commercial Radio for the Local Butcher, Baker and Candlestickmaker --------- all the facts are there staring you in the face, trouble is if the Commercial sector are wining and dining the DCMS, then we ain’t gonna get very far are we, sadly for the wrong reasons.


…certainly back in 2003 / 2004 / 2005 when we came out of the starting blocks only to find ourselves running up an extremely steep hill as opposed to a level flat. Not much seems to have changed, we’re still the underdog and in most cases going backwards through no fault of our own …. Which clearly is not acceptable.


Back to the script, figures are whatever you want them to be --- I am surprised and extremely disappointed that when experts try to help us with at least some kind of guidelines, some take it to have a pop at them.

I suggest those folk (whoever they are / you are)  start having a pop at the ones who are our pains in the butt, not the ones trying to help.


On a slightly different subject I had to laugh at the Radio Hub meeting a month ago in Wycombe when Bill was explaining about the (Bill) (pardon the pun)   going through Parliament at the moment in relation to small scale DAB …. Of course the route it will be taking is past the dining tables awash with wine and then onto Law. I see the thing has yet again been hi-jacked by commercial radio as there is no show without Punch and they’ve got their conks poked in it again.

My working class laymans terminology would have simply been that we are basically already operating as Small Scale FM (that’s what we are)(dress it up how you want, call it what you want, that’s what we are) … so where’s the difference ?    I don’t see a difference ?    NO Commercial wallers are on small scale FM so why has it been allowed to be hijacked again ?               apparently our team raised a few pointers that could have rocked the Boat slightly … and were accosted and told to be quiet and go and stand in the little boys corner as it could upset the applecart and delay the Bill.


I’m afraid to say, that if they had said that to me in the meeting I would have let em av it lock stock and barrel.

Respect for the authorities went out the window with me a long long time ago. By the way, anyone whoi stands up at Conference in September bleeting on about this will be tackled yet again from the auditorium by moi with a microphone or without.


I repeat ………. On top of all the other balls-ups over the past 14 years, here we yet again have another to add to the list. Mark my words, it will come back to haunt us, the door is open, the wedge is in and the unscrupulous are poised to pounce. Best go and set up the fall back plan      Third Fiddle DAB          Personally, all I think has happened over the years is we have been patronised, and I reckon this new guy Hancocks is going to be the worst one of the lot. By all means send him this e-mail and let him prove me wrong.


It’ll be yet another Humpty    I told you so.




From: cma-l-bounces at mailman.commedia.org.uk <mailto:cma-l-bounces at mailman.commedia.org.uk>  [mailto:cma-l-bounces at mailman.commedia.org.uk] On Behalf Of Alan Coote
Sent: 14 July 2017 14:01
To: cma-l at mailman.commedia.org.uk <mailto:cma-l at mailman.commedia.org.uk> 
Subject: Re: [cma-l] been thinking ???




What that radio centre research (£7 for every £1 invested) didn’t explain is the exceptions to the rule, of which there are many.


Advertiser’s ROI varies considerably and I personally only use the 7:1 ratio to put radio in context with other forms of advertising. It’s not a very reliable metric. 


Using radio in conjunction with online advertising (so called cross media) in my view gives significantly more reliable results.   


I think you have a much more powerful local story to tell of advertisers receiving a great response from their spending with you. 



Kind Regards



Alan Coote

Email -  <mailto:alan.coote at 5digital.co.uk> alan.coote at MonogramMedia.co.uk

Phone - 0800 949 6655

Mobile - 07801 518858

Twitter -  <http://www.twitter.com/TheAlanCoote> @TheAlanCoote 


Twitter -  <http://www.twitter.com/TheAlanCoote> @LTBShow

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From: <cma-l-bounces at mailman.commedia.org.uk <mailto:cma-l-bounces at mailman.commedia.org.uk> > on behalf of Canalside Community Radio Ltd <office at canalsideradio.net <mailto:office at canalsideradio.net> >
Reply-To: "cma-l at mailman.commedia.org.uk <mailto:cma-l at mailman.commedia.org.uk> " <cma-l at mailman.commedia.org.uk <mailto:cma-l at mailman.commedia.org.uk> >
Date: Friday, 14 July 2017 at 13:00
To: "cma-l at mailman.commedia.org.uk <mailto:cma-l at mailman.commedia.org.uk> " <cma-l at mailman.commedia.org.uk <mailto:cma-l at mailman.commedia.org.uk> >
Subject: [cma-l] been thinking ???


Dear All


I have been thinking about this for a long time now and similar discussions pop up from time to time on our message board. It’s all connected with the usual malarkey about rajar and figures and who’s listening, who isn’t, for how long etc etc ……… in the same ball park area of course we have the attack from social media (commercial radio under the same onslaught as well)    so it’s not just us …..and even they are going back to basics on their new campaigns.


Reminding people that in the main Radio Adverts are difficult to miss or avoid because they are in real time, one is not always in a position to meddle and even if driving other things occupy your mind (or at least they ought to do)(one being concentration)   that even with the best intention, Station hopping doesn’t actually happen, it is just a myth, and a lot of folk have given it up because just like on the extra Channels on TV, when you skip over from the adverts you end up with more adverts at the same time on the other channels anyway. I suppose you could go to the BBC          but ?


Link all of this with a figure that I have been hearing for a long time now, and a figure that pops up in some of the strangest places and strangest conversations with people who you think ‘’how do you know that ?’’     I have had meetings with Senior bosses, Council Officials, Charities and this topic has cropped up -------- the figure being for every £1 spent, an investor and/or advertiser can expect to receive £8 quids worth of business in return.


Good stuff I say.


This of course is the figure banded around by commercial radio .. personally seeing as they have [apparently] nudged ahead of the BBC, that figure I suppose could be claimed as £9 quid .. But £8 quid will do for this argument.


That leads me on to the assistance we received on these matters from James Cridland and a few other people. As with lots of organisations you can very easily find yourself in those little irritating situations ‘’damned if I do, damned if I don’t’’ scenario and/or ‘’you can’t do right for doing wrong’’        I never noticed myself but ‘’’apparently’’’ all these guidelines and figures have been ‘taken-down’ owing to some folk taking offence to them ????       why ?          surely some kind of guideline or rule of thumb is better than going around in circles, banging ones head against a brick wall and getting absolutely nowhere ?    so well done to those people who stand up, stick their heads above the parapet and ‘get on with it’                               reminds me a bit of the Mother Teresa Anyway Poem


We at Canalside are sticking with the old rule of thumb guidelines from our kind helpers & experts as the figures for us dropped within the 250 figure marker which we worked out over a period of 2 years ---- in Radio terms basically ‘bang on !’    I reckon if it fits us, then it fits most others.


I couldn’t give a flying cactus about the commercial radio big-wigs poking their conks in on the figures nor those in Noddyland who seem to want to claim that all and sundrie are listening when actually their figures are quite average just like the rest of us.

I have always been a believer that ‘’’average’’’ figures for us at Community Radio is actually a success story and not a hindrance. Remember that we hit more people because of the diversity and variety and going off the beaten track ---- they may listen for slightly less hours, but there’s more of them.


So, after going through the Trees, uphill and down dale, cut to the chase. I’m not a very good mathematician but looking at the commercial radio figures and comparing them to the Community Radio figures (using rule of thumb and taking into consideration the pointers I have made)      every £1 spent with Community Radio equates to £4 - £5 pounds in return. About £4.60p actually ….. which over a smaller coverage area and LOCAL is very good.


I personally think that is good …………… what are  the thoughts of everyone on the board and our head honchos please?                     Bear-in-mind that there is one figure that is always missing on this and that is the key figure on ‘take up’       I was told many many moons ago that for every hundred folk, 7 do something positve about it. Of course it depends on the product and the type of event as some will be more popular than others, but the average it’s 7 people.


Discuss   😊


Oh by the way, if there is anyone a bit backward of coming forward, take note that we can use whatever figures we want, it is no business of commercial radio ---- at the end of the day the proof of the pudding is in the eating. We have had a couple of nice puddings recently with a handyman coming on-board with us and within 6 weeks increasing the size of the Package because he has been snowed under with calls for work which will now take him up to and beyond Chrimbo ……….. another chap (a Painter and decorator)(and sadly you may recall this has happened before where we can become victims of our own success)      he has cancelled his advertising with us as he received 31 phone calls within the space of a couple of months which he has turned into 21 jobs --- he now doesn’t need the money. He kindly agreed to see out the contract. His final payment goes out next month.


Worth noting though that owing to grant funding virtually being none existant and a community radio fund that is ‘crap’     [ yes, unprofessional to use words like that, but I will do anyway, because it is ----]      then the £1 into £5 doesn’t really apply because according to my figures we’re only allowed £3 quid.

I say it again, the restrictions need to go …. That’s 14 years I have been saying it and still counting and it is a fact that without Jaqui, Dom and Bills Volunteer time the majority of us would have been up swannee creek without both paddles !! …………… you can argue with me on this till the Cows come home, sadly it is a fact !  as a brotherly Community of Radio Operators it’s time we started facing up to the facts and stopped allowing others to brush things aside, under the carpet or hoodwink their way through proceedings. They’ve never kidded me.


Onwards and Upwards though


Nicholas H Dumpty

Station Plate Spinner



Canalside Community Radio Ltd.

Canal 2B, 

Clarence Mill, 



SK10 5JZ


01625 576689

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