[cma-l] Licensing and VAT

Geoff Rogers geoff at susyradio.com
Wed Jan 4 22:32:46 GMT 2017 

I only asked :-)

On 4 January 2017 at 18:27, Artisan Broadcast (Sales) <
sales at artisanbroadcast.uk> wrote:

> US "licences" are not charge for mechanical rights for exactly the
> promotional and prospecting reason Nick outlines. I've always found that a
> great many UK 'authorities' are out to charge for everything without
> considering the 'potential benefit or income' of a particular arrangement
> that may (in turn) generate a commission/revenue for the authority up the
> chain. A very blinkered approach if you ask me.
>
> Regards,
>
> *Catie Lake*
>
> --
>
>
> Sales & Support: 0333 37 00 252 : http://www.artisanbroadcast.uk
>
> *'Artisan Broadcast' is a brand name of Artisan Internet Limited*
>
> Artisan Internet Ltd.  ::  Reg. No. 4577129  ::  VAT No. 750 3706 48
> mail: 56 Kenilworth Court, Kenilworth Close, New Milton, BH25 6BN
>
>
>
> On 4 January 2017 at 16:04, David (RadioPeople) <
> david at theradiopeople.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> Beautifully described, Bill.
>>
>> The analogy i’ve heard used in the past is that of the 'cornershop
>> window' - where one pays the owner to place a card in the shop window
>> describing the item you have for sale. You wouldn’t expect the shop owner
>> to pay you for the privilege of having your card in their window.
>> Therefore, it goes, artists should be paying radio stations for advertising
>> their product (songs) in their shop window (radio).
>>
>> However, where this falls over is, unlike the corner shop radio stations
>> have a quid pro quo. By choosing to use an artist's product (songs) you are
>> able to attract an audience and also to be able to charge for and sell your
>> product (advertising). Therein lies the fundamental principle. If you’re
>> not going to accept, understand, acknowledge that principle then you should
>> not be in music radio.  No one is compelled to use copyrighted music.  Use
>> music that is not copyrighted and see what that does to your audience
>> figures and/or income.
>>
>> David
>> theradiopeople.co.uk
>>
>>
>> > On 4 Jan 2017, at 15:30, Bill Best <bill.best at commedia.org.uk> wrote:
>> >
>> > Good afternoon
>> >
>> > Nick, you said:
>> >
>> > > In a nutshell, why do you have to apply for a licence to allow you to
>> > > do something with something that you have already paid for ???
>> > > it’s bonkers !     I can’t think of any other system like it ………………
>> > > …… can you ?
>> >
>> > Purchasing a CD does not confer to you any rights of broadcast - for
>> which you need a separate licence. If you look at any CD that you own it
>> will say on it "All rights reserved" meaning that the original creator of
>> the work still owns every right to the material i.e. they have not given
>> away the right, among others, to broadcast the material.
>> >
>> > An example of something similar, as you asked, is if you buy a licence
>> for some software that doesn't give you the right to do anything that you
>> like with that software such as share it. You would not have the right to
>> upload a copy of that software to a torrent server and distribute that
>> application over the Internet - which would be analogous to webcasting a
>> piece of music.
>> >
>> > So, there are plenty of precedents and analogous examples. Your TV
>> licence does not permit you to stream (e.g. broadcast) the content over the
>> Internet or open up a theatre and charge admission for people to come and
>> watch "Strictly".
>> >
>> > PPL and PRS for Music were invited to last year's Community Media
>> Conference in order to put these quite basic misunderstandings to rest. I
>> see that I may have to invite them back again this year.
>> >
>> > Best regards
>> >
>> > Bill
>> > --
>> > Operations Manager
>> > Community Media Association
>> > http://www.commedia.org.uk
>> > https://twitter.com/community_media
>> > https://facebook.com/CommunityMediaAssociation
>> >
>> > Canstream Internet Radio
>> > http://www.canstream.co.uk
>> > https://twitter.com/canstream
>> >
>> > On 4 January 2017 at 13:55, Canalside's The Thread <
>> office at thethread.org.uk> wrote:
>> > I understand the legalities of it all but DISAGREE with it all with a
>> vengeance !
>> >
>> > It’s nothing more than a legal money making racket concocted up back
>> 1912 by a few clever boffins who knew how to work a system.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > By rights, if I buy or purchase something, then I own it, and I can do
>> what I want with it because I own it. If an ‘artist’ or whoever doesn’t
>> want people to use their material then don’t put it up for use, keep it to
>> yourself.
>> >
>> > Put your talent and your material in a shop and if it is good enough
>> folk will buy it, if it isn’t, they won’t and that dear all is how life
>> works. If ever there was a classic example of cake and eat it here it is.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > If I buy a Ford Car next week and decide to open up a Taxi business,
>> Ford don’t charge me each time I drive it … I buy it and then I own it. If
>> I earn money (as in this Taxi case .. so what ?)   do I have to report to
>> Ford every year on how much I have earned so that they can charge me 3% of
>> it …….
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > What has happened is CONVENIENTLY ‘they’ as in the powers that be have
>> confused Performance etc with PIRACY and by doing so they have been able to
>> force through legislation. No doubt the ones who forced it through
>> originally had their fingers in the Pie and were getting a nice tickle out
>> of it £££ and possibly still are …………..
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > I see it like this :-
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > If I wish to play Elton Johns music then I go out and purchase it on
>> record / cd / download / spottyface / yogurt carton and piece of string
>> ………. Including all his albums and singles back in the 70’s (I started
>> buying records back in 1969) plus then cd’s, I reckon Elton has had a good
>> butty out of me.
>> >
>> > I happen to work in an industry where I can then showcase (for Elton)
>> his work in the hope that perhaps others will purchase his talent. In
>> otherwords we are all happy bunnies as it benefits us as well. Please don’t
>> be distracted or foget though by the fact we have already paid for it.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Elton can then pay who he wishes for helping him write a song or play
>> spoons on one of his songs.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > If Joe Public go out and buy his material he makes money, if people
>> don’t because they don’t like it then he doesn’t make money ---- a bit like
>> us really. If no ones listens to us and we’re not very good, there’s no
>> PRS/PPL safety net for us !        ie:- getting paid for doing nothing.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > If I steal Eltons talent though and don’t pay him for his record or cd
>> then that is breaking the law --- it is theft.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > So, to conclude ……………. Buy it, do what you want with it because it
>> becomes yours. If he/she doesn’t want you to buy it, don’t do it in the
>> first place and don’t put it up for sale.
>> >
>> > It’s just a money making racket.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > To rub salt in the wounds we then have PRS/PPL coming to us    official
>> Charities / Not-for-profit Organisations asking for reports and poking
>> their conks into our Business. Our Business is exactly what it says on the
>> can – Not-for-profit so the end result is = zero …………..also     all the
>> music on our system bar a handful have been bought / purchased and I have a
>> receipt for the lot going back to 1969
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > It’s a complete joke and folk have just gone along with it. Of course
>> it is a multi-million pound circus now so it will probably never be tweaked.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > I disagree totally with this new licence and I am unsure as to what to
>> do??    The idea and concept is good (something I suggested 8 years ago and
>> was told ‘’oh we can’t do that’’)             By applying for it and
>> signing the form means that you are agreeing with the terms ……… we do not
>> agree with the terms and therefore ‘’houston we have a problem’’
>>        this wasn’t a consultation, it was merely yet another lipservice
>> exercise.
>> >
>> > I have asked them to send me the invoice for the year and who to pay it
>> to, as of yet all I have received are two letters full of gobbled gook and
>> the usual telling me what I already know.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > We refuse as a Charity / Not-for-profit Organisation to fill in report
>> forms on whether a window cleaner cleans your windows for a philanthropic
>> thank you … I have far more important things to do each day than work out
>> mathematically the value of that.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >       • It’s none of Elton Johns business           and
>> >       • What don’t they understand about our Net being = zero ??
>> >
>> >
>> > I am sick of banging my head against a brick wall
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > In a nutshell, why do you have to apply for a licence to allow you to
>> do something with something that you have already paid for ???   it’s
>> bonkers !     I can’t think of any other system like it …………………… can you ?
>>   I’m all ears
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Nick
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> >
>> > Reply - cma-l at commedia.org.uk
>> >
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>> > Canstream Internet Radio & Video: http://www.canstream.co.uk/
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-- 
Geoff Rogers
Programme Director
Susy Radio, Local Community Radio for Redhill and Reigate
On-air across Sussex and Surrey on 103.4FM NOW
Web: susyradio.com <http://www.susyradio.com>

Susy Radio Ltd. A company registered in England and Wales.
Registered Office: 54 Nutfield Road, Merstham, Redhill, Surrey, RH1 3EP.
Registered Number: 06748586
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