[cma-l] Licensing and VAT

Wed Jan 4 15:53:46 GMT 2017

Yes but Uncle Bill   :)

I know what the rules are and I know how they are doled out ………………… the point I make is if I released some material next week I would be looking round for people to broadcast it and not ‘’’not’’’ broadcast it. There is a difference between     re:- streaming stuff that HASN’T been paid for or broadcasting stuff that has been paid for. And hey presto, here we go again where the piracy bit gets included into the PRS/PPL bit to create confusion.

(I’m not saying you have I’m saying the argument itself has)

Buying a TV Licence doesn’t mean you have paid for the programme but buying a cd and re-broadcasting it looking positively means Mr Artist has been paid and then might be paid again when 500 listeners go out and also buy the cd.

Look           I’m never going to win the argument because it has all been manipulated and nope, we don’t need anyone to explain it all again. I know most of the Community Radio rules better than those who wrote em.

What might be good though is all the folk who come along to our gatherings and join in consultations if they could at all be persuaded to ‘listen’ as opposed to talking at us and telling us everything we already know or stuff that has no bearing on what we do at all.

Apart from that, everything is hunky dory in the garden and all done with a great big smiley miley on my face

For alL you guys know, this could just be one big wind up    ?????????????           LOL         

I went to London before Chrimbo for a number of reasons …. To see lots of lovely people with similar interests, for a good bit of banter and I like riding on Trains.

Nick

From: cma-l-bounces at mailman.commedia.org.uk [mailto:cma-l-bounces at mailman.commedia.org.uk] On Behalf Of Bill Best
Sent: 04 January 2017 15:31
To: The Community Media Association Discussion List <cma-l at mailman.commedia.org.uk>
Subject: Re: [cma-l] Licensing and VAT

Good afternoon

Nick, you said:

> In a nutshell, why do you have to apply for a licence to allow you to

> do something with something that you have already paid for ???  

> it’s bonkers !     I can’t think of any other system like it ………………

> …… can you ? 

Purchasing a CD does not confer to you any rights of broadcast - for which you need a separate licence. If you look at any CD that you own it will say on it "All rights reserved" meaning that the original creator of the work still owns every right to the material i.e. they have not given away the right, among others, to broadcast the material.

An example of something similar, as you asked, is if you buy a licence for some software that doesn't give you the right to do anything that you like with that software such as share it. You would not have the right to upload a copy of that software to a torrent server and distribute that application over the Internet - which would be analogous to webcasting a piece of music.

So, there are plenty of precedents and analogous examples. Your TV licence does not permit you to stream (e.g. broadcast) the content over the Internet or open up a theatre and charge admission for people to come and watch "Strictly".

PPL and PRS for Music were invited to last year's Community Media Conference in order to put these quite basic misunderstandings to rest. I see that I may have to invite them back again this year.

Best regards

Bill

-- 

Operations Manager

Community Media Association

http://www.commedia.org.uk

https://twitter.com/community_media

https://facebook.com/CommunityMediaAssociation

Canstream Internet Radio

http://www.canstream.co.uk

https://twitter.com/canstream

On 4 January 2017 at 13:55, Canalside's The Thread <office at thethread.org.uk <mailto:office at thethread.org.uk> > wrote:

I understand the legalities of it all but DISAGREE with it all with a vengeance !

It’s nothing more than a legal money making racket concocted up back 1912 by a few clever boffins who knew how to work a system.

By rights, if I buy or purchase something, then I own it, and I can do what I want with it because I own it. If an ‘artist’ or whoever doesn’t want people to use their material then don’t put it up for use, keep it to yourself.

Put your talent and your material in a shop and if it is good enough folk will buy it, if it isn’t, they won’t and that dear all is how life works. If ever there was a classic example of cake and eat it here it is.

If I buy a Ford Car next week and decide to open up a Taxi business, Ford don’t charge me each time I drive it … I buy it and then I own it. If I earn money (as in this Taxi case .. so what ?)   do I have to report to Ford every year on how much I have earned so that they can charge me 3% of it …….

What has happened is CONVENIENTLY ‘they’ as in the powers that be have confused Performance etc with PIRACY and by doing so they have been able to force through legislation. No doubt the ones who forced it through originally had their fingers in the Pie and were getting a nice tickle out of it £££ and possibly still are …………..

I see it like this :-

If I wish to play Elton Johns music then I go out and purchase it on record / cd / download / spottyface / yogurt carton and piece of string ………. Including all his albums and singles back in the 70’s (I started buying records back in 1969) plus then cd’s, I reckon Elton has had a good butty out of me. 

I happen to work in an industry where I can then showcase (for Elton) his work in the hope that perhaps others will purchase his talent. In otherwords we are all happy bunnies as it benefits us as well. Please don’t be distracted or foget though by the fact we have already paid for it.

Elton can then pay who he wishes for helping him write a song or play spoons on one of his songs.

If Joe Public go out and buy his material he makes money, if people don’t because they don’t like it then he doesn’t make money ---- a bit like us really. If no ones listens to us and we’re not very good, there’s no PRS/PPL safety net for us !        ie:- getting paid for doing nothing.

If I steal Eltons talent though and don’t pay him for his record or cd then that is breaking the law --- it is theft.

So, to conclude ……………. Buy it, do what you want with it because it becomes yours. If he/she doesn’t want you to buy it, don’t do it in the first place and don’t put it up for sale.

It’s just a money making racket.

To rub salt in the wounds we then have PRS/PPL coming to us    official Charities / Not-for-profit Organisations asking for reports and poking their conks into our Business. Our Business is exactly what it says on the can – Not-for-profit so the end result is = zero …………..also     all the music on our system bar a handful have been bought / purchased and I have a receipt for the lot going back to 1969

It’s a complete joke and folk have just gone along with it. Of course it is a multi-million pound circus now so it will probably never be tweaked.

I disagree totally with this new licence and I am unsure as to what to do??    The idea and concept is good (something I suggested 8 years ago and was told ‘’oh we can’t do that’’)             By applying for it and signing the form means that you are agreeing with the terms ……… we do not agree with the terms and therefore ‘’houston we have a problem’’                   this wasn’t a consultation, it was merely yet another lipservice exercise.

I have asked them to send me the invoice for the year and who to pay it to, as of yet all I have received are two letters full of gobbled gook and the usual telling me what I already know.

We refuse as a Charity / Not-for-profit Organisation to fill in report forms on whether a window cleaner cleans your windows for a philanthropic thank you … I have far more important things to do each day than work out mathematically the value of that.

1.	It’s none of Elton Johns business           and
2.	What don’t they understand about our Net being = zero ??

I am sick of banging my head against a brick wall

In a nutshell, why do you have to apply for a licence to allow you to do something with something that you have already paid for ???   it’s bonkers !     I can’t think of any other system like it …………………… can you ?    I’m all ears 

Nick

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