[cma-l] Radio Link Transmission systems
Alan Coote
alan.coote at 5digital.co.uk
Fri Jun 3 19:47:17 BST 2016
Here you go https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patch_antenna
From: "transplanfm at hotmail.com" <transplanfm at hotmail.com>
Date: Friday, 3 June 2016 at 16:50
To: "cma-l at mailman.commedia.org.uk" <cma-l at mailman.commedia.org.uk>, "alan.coote at 5digital.co.uk" <alan.coote at 5digital.co.uk>
Subject: Radio Link Transmission systems
Alan
Could you explain what you mean by "20cm patch antennas" please?
Many thanks.
Ian Hickling
Partner
Office: 016 3557 8435 (07h to 22h GTS)
Car: 075 3098 0115 (only responds when driving)
6 Horn Street, Compton, NEWBURY, RG20 6QS
Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2016 15:22:21 +0100
From: alan.coote at 5digital.co.uk
To: cma-l at mailman.commedia.org.uk
Subject: Re: [cma-l] Radio Link Transmission systems
Hi Alex,
The units we used are 20cm patch antennas and good for point to point over many km. We registered the nodes with Ofcom and paid a few quid - that’s all, no special licence or expensive equipment. They are relatively easy to set up assuming a bit of basic IP knowledge. I can’t recall the power consumption but as it was powered over Cat5 it could not have been that much.
This incarnation of the STL cost us around £800 including the codecs and installation of the fail-over ADSLs.
The whole set up eventually had several nodes which came together with another community station at the university as it is geographically central. Both stations used the other's for STL and backhaul for OB’s.
Kind Regards
Alan
Alan Coote
Email - alan.coote at MonogramMedia.co.uk
Phone - 0800 949 6655
Mobile - 07801 518858
Twitter - @TheAlanCoote
Twitter - @LTBShow
Web - http://www.LetsTalkBusinessOnline.com
From: <cma-l-bounces at mailman.commedia.org.uk> on behalf of "tlr at gairloch.co.uk" <tlr at gairloch.co.uk>
Reply-To: "cma-l at mailman.commedia.org.uk" <cma-l at mailman.commedia.org.uk>
Date: Friday, 3 June 2016 at 13:29
To: "cma-l at mailman.commedia.org.uk" <cma-l at mailman.commedia.org.uk>
Subject: Re: [cma-l] Radio Link Transmission systems
Why do you think they would be ideal for STL IP links? The airfibres are huge and expensive, power hungry, with little functional advantage over the 5.8GHz systems for ordinary STL purposes. You're also much more likely to need planning permission for them than for the unobtrusive 5GHz units (though in many areas technically even they officially need planning consent!).
I have looked at 24GHz in the past not for radio use but for potential wireless internet backhaul, but it seemed to have very little advantage over 5GHz for most purposes. I also heard mixed reports of whether the airfibre units (at 5GHz or 24GHz) really reach the practical ranges they claim, whereas I know the nanobeam 5GHz AC gear works as advertised! Ubiquiti says "Users are free to locate, deploy, and operate airFiber practically anywhere they choose (subject to local country regulations)" - my italics.
Using an airfibre at the sort of power levels they are intended to use to achieve their throughput/range means powers way in excess of what appears to be permitted licence free by Ofcom. But maybe I have misinterpeted it along the way or there may be a point-to-point licensing provision I never found!
But as I said, why would you bother? The airfibre units are enormous (typically almost a metre high and half a metre wide - like mounting a large flatscreen TV on your mast!), need very good alignment, and don't offer dramatically better throughput or range than suitably specced 5GHz systems. The 5GHz systems can give throughputs that are well in excess of what would normally be needed for an STL and remote IP access, and at more range to the transmitter than most community stations would need.
Just my take - your mileage may vary of course!
Alex
On 03 June 2016 at 11:35 Peter Symonds <peter at engineeringradio.co.uk> wrote:
Does anyone know the Ofcom policy for using 24GHz? Ubiquiti have a range that operate at that frequency. They would be ideal for IP Radio links if you can actually see the transmitter with no obstruction.
Pete
On 3 June 2016 at 10:13, Alan Coote <alan.coote at 5digital.co.uk> wrote:
Here's how The Bay (now Hot Radio) in Bournemouth was set up.
We started with expensive business grade ADSL links at the studio and TX using professional low latency codecs( the same equipment the BBC uses on it’s Network Radio).
We then added a couple of Draytec routers and utilised backup consumer grade ADSLs. Seeing an opportunity to save money, we then removed the expensive codecs and replaced them with Barix, but to increase the fidelity we dumped the business grade ADSL with a two hop 5.8Gb wireless LAN as there was not a direct line of site to the TX site.
We used Draytek routers which allows a wireless dongle as a backup which got us out of trouble a couple of times.
After the first year we ended up with double link redundancy at the TX, and triple from the studio.
To be honest we initially we made a mistake by putting too much strain on our operational costs by leasing the business ADSLs and the professional codecs. Dumping them and buying Barix, Draytek, and the 5.8GHz WLAN saved us a stack of cash and meant we could afford to make the whole system significantly more reliable.
Kind Regards
Alan
Alan Coote
Email - alan.coote at MonogramMedia.co.uk
Phone - 0800 949 6655
Mobile - 07801 518858
Twitter - @TheAlanCoote
Twitter - @LTBShow
Web - http://www.LetsTalkBusinessOnline.com
From: <cma-l-bounces at mailman.commedia.org.uk> on behalf of "transplanfm at hotmail.com" <transplanfm at hotmail.com>
Reply-To: "cma-l at mailman.commedia.org.uk" <cma-l at mailman.commedia.org.uk>
Date: Thursday, 2 June 2016 at 20:04
To: "cma-l at mailman.commedia.org.uk" <cma-l at mailman.commedia.org.uk>
Subject: [cma-l] Radio Link Transmission systems
That's fine - except it's using public networks are domestic-quality equipment with the many risk elements that entails.
Hardly a professional broadcast solution.
We would only install professional rack-mounted codecs using the latest minimum-latency software operating via fixed IP addresses linked to a known reliable ISP - if the wholly-owned option of if a radio link path using any of the 5 available platforms was physically impossible.
Ian Hickling
Partner
Office: 016 3557 8435 (07h to 22h GTS)
Car: 075 3098 0115 (only responds when driving)
6 Horn Street, Compton, NEWBURY, RG20 6QS
From: cma-l-bounces at mailman.commedia.org.uk [mailto:cma-l-bounces at mailman.commedia.org.uk] On Behalf Of Alan Coote
Sent: 02 June 2016 09:45
To: cma-l at mailman.commedia.org.uk
Subject: Re: [cma-l] Radio Link Transmission systems
Using IP, you can easily stick in a router at the TX with automatic network fail-over. It will pick up your internet stream via a secondary ADSL and /or plug a 4G modem .
Alan
Subject: Re: [cma-l] Radio Link Transmission systems
not only that but sometimes the studio location can be in a really non suitable position for a transmitter site, and so you have to be situated somewhere else.
Nathan Silveston
Director
NKPA Broadcast Ltd (9817955)
M: 07900 494 398
From: cma-l-bounces at mailman.commedia.org.uk [cma-l-bounces at mailman.commedia.org.uk] on behalf of Neil Munday [neilm at susyradio.com]
Sent: 01 June 2016 15:51
To: The Community Media Association Discussion List
Subject: Re: [cma-l] Radio Link Transmission systems
Nick
Stop hyping on about 5 km it's a radio wave! Besides some stations have special constructions which affect pattern from a perfect circle!
Neil
On Wednesday, 1 June 2016, Canalside's The Thread <office at thethread.org.uk> wrote:
What’s fascinating on this one is that the distance I believe between the Transmitter site and the actual base signal is about two and half miles ….. crikey ! that’s nearly as big as the actual broadcast area !
May I remind everyone ….. 5km ! don’t exceed that or else Ofcom will reach for the panic button the Commercials will chuck all their Toys out of the Pram and you’ll be in danger of broadcasting to more than one man and his Dog and we can’t have that now can we ?? as it just wouldn’t be Cricket. Everyone else pleases themselves but we have to stick to the rules of the fair play award.
Remember, our aka name is <> Restricted FM LOL J
A couple of yogurt cartons and a piece of string normally does the trick and keeps the signal strength to a whimper, and the cost is negligible as well a fiver (£5) tops
With reference to what Glynn has suggested, if the signal does stray by a few yards then you can always lob a few twigs in the way of it, that also usually does the trick.
Listening to the state of ours in certain parts of Macc, I think someone has chucked a Tree in front of it.
Nick H Dumpty
From:cma-l-bounces at mailman.commedia.org.uk [mailto:cma-l-bounces at mailman.commedia.org.uk] On Behalf Of Associated Broadcast Consultants
Sent: 01 June 2016 13:33
To: The Community Media Association Discussion List
Cc: cma-l
Subject: Re: [cma-l] Radio Link Transmission systems
I agree with Bill - if you have perfect line of sight (not even a twig in the way) then a digital 5.8GHz link is the way to go. It gives you ample bandwidth to deliver perfect uncompressed PCM (ie CD quality) audio - no need for mp3, aac etc compression.
Rather than the free spectrum though, I'd go for licenced spectrum - for £50 a year fee it should be cleaner spectrum less susceptible to interference.
A few more details available on our website 'ere.
--
Glyn Roylance - Principal Consultant
Associated Broadcast Consultants
On 1 June 2016 at 12:06, Jonathan Pinfield <jonathan.pinfield at bcbradio.co.uk> wrote:
Hi all
We’re looking for cheap and reliable solutions to get our “on-air” output from our studios in Bradford city centre to our transmitter site a couple of miles away. We’ve got line of site from the top of our building to the transmitter site.
Please let us know cost effective & practical solutions that work for you.
Thanks
Jonathan Pinfield
Broadcast Manager – BCB 106.6fm
_______________________________________________
Reply - cma-l at commedia.org.uk
The cma-l mailing list is a members' service provided by the Community Media Association - http://www.commedia.org.uk
Twitter: http://twitter.com/community_media
http://www.facebook.com/CommunityMediaAssociation
Canstream Internet Radio & Video: http://www.canstream.co.uk/
_______________________________________________
Mailing list guidelines: http://www.commedia.org.uk/about/cma-email-lists/email-list-guidelines/
_______________________________________________
To unsubscribe or manage your CMA-L mailing list subscription please visit:
http://mailman.commedia.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/cma-l
_______________________________________________ Reply - cma-l at commedia.org.uk The cma-l mailing list is a members' service provided by the Community Media Association - http://www.commedia.org.uk Twitter: http://twitter.com/community_media http://www.facebook.com/CommunityMediaAssociation Canstream Internet Radio & Video: http://www.canstream.co.uk/ _______________________________________________ Mailing list guidelines: http://www.commedia.org.uk/about/cma-email-lists/email-list-guidelines/ _______________________________________________ To unsubscribe or manage your CMA-L mailing list subscription please visit: http://mailman.commedia.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/cma-l
Virus-free. www.avast.com
_______________________________________________ Reply - cma-l at commedia.org.uk The cma-l mailing list is a members' service provided by the Community Media Association - http://www.commedia.org.uk Twitter: http://twitter.com/community_media http://www.facebook.com/CommunityMediaAssociation Canstream Internet Radio & Video: http://www.canstream.co.uk/ _______________________________________________ Mailing list guidelines: http://www.commedia.org.uk/about/cma-email-lists/email-list-guidelines/ _______________________________________________ To unsubscribe or manage your CMA-L mailing list subscription please visit: http://mailman.commedia.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/cma-l
_______________________________________________ Reply - cma-l at commedia.org.uk The cma-l mailing list is a members' service provided by the Community Media Association - http://www.commedia.org.uk Twitter: http://twitter.com/community_media http://www.facebook.com/CommunityMediaAssociation Canstream Internet Radio & Video: http://www.canstream.co.uk/ _______________________________________________ Mailing list guidelines: http://www.commedia.org.uk/about/cma-email-lists/email-list-guidelines/ _______________________________________________ To unsubscribe or manage your CMA-L mailing list subscription please visit: http://mailman.commedia.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/cma-l
_______________________________________________
Reply - cma-l at commedia.org.uk
The cma-l mailing list is a members' service provided by the Community Media Association - http://www.commedia.org.uk
Twitter: http://twitter.com/community_media
http://www.facebook.com/CommunityMediaAssociation
Canstream Internet Radio & Video: http://www.canstream.co.uk/
_______________________________________________
Mailing list guidelines: http://www.commedia.org.uk/about/cma-email-lists/email-list-guidelines/
_______________________________________________
To unsubscribe or manage your CMA-L mailing list subscription please visit:
http://mailman.commedia.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/cma-l
--
Peter Symonds
Broadcast Engineer and Radio Tech Geek
_______________________________________________
Reply - cma-l at commedia.org.uk
The cma-l mailing list is a members' service provided by the Community Media Association - http://www.commedia.org.uk
Twitter: http://twitter.com/community_media
http://www.facebook.com/CommunityMediaAssociation
Canstream Internet Radio & Video: http://www.canstream.co.uk/
_______________________________________________
Mailing list guidelines: http://www.commedia.org.uk/about/cma-email-lists/email-list-guidelines/
_______________________________________________
To unsubscribe or manage your CMA-L mailing list subscription please visit:
http://mailman.commedia.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/cma-l
_______________________________________________ Reply - cma-l at commedia.org.uk The cma-l mailing list is a members' service provided by the Community Media Association - http://www.commedia.org.uk Twitter: http://twitter.com/community_mediahttp://www.facebook.com/CommunityMediaAssociation Canstream Internet Radio & Video: http://www.canstream.co.uk/ _______________________________________________ Mailing list guidelines: http://www.commedia.org.uk/about/cma-email-lists/email-list-guidelines/ _______________________________________________ To unsubscribe or manage your CMA-L mailing list subscription please visit: http://mailman.commedia.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/cma-l
_______________________________________________ Reply - cma-l at commedia.org.uk The cma-l mailing list is a members' service provided by the Community Media Association - http://www.commedia.org.uk Twitter: http://twitter.com/community_media http://www.facebook.com/CommunityMediaAssociation Canstream Internet Radio & Video: http://www.canstream.co.uk/ _______________________________________________ Mailing list guidelines: http://www.commedia.org.uk/about/cma-email-lists/email-list-guidelines/ _______________________________________________ To unsubscribe or manage your CMA-L mailing list subscription please visit: http://mailman.commedia.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/cma-l
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mailman.commedia.org.uk/pipermail/cma-l/attachments/20160603/f8450b0c/attachment.html>
More information about the cma-l
mailing list