[cma-l] Joint PRS/PPL licences

Sun Jul 3 13:24:30 BST 2016

I've read the documentation that was referred.Nowhere unfortunately can I find anything which states the exclusive legal entitlement of PPL or PRSfM to collect sums they choose to impose unilaterally and severally on broadcasters.
If I've missed it - perhaps you can direct me.
I reiterate - it is the responsibility for these two organisations to prove in Law that:they are entitled to collect royaltiesthey have an exclusive right to do thisthey are entitled to make the charges at the rates quotedUntil they do - anything you pay is at your own risk.
Ian HicklingPartnerOffice: 016 3557 8435  (07h to 22h GTS)Car: 075 3098 0115 (only responds when driving)6 Horn Street, Compton, NEWBURY, RG20 6QS

From: transplanfm at hotmail.com
To: cma-l at mailman.commedia.org.uk
Date: Sat, 2 Jul 2016 20:07:59 +0000
Subject: [cma-l] Joint PRS/PPL licences

Thanks BillIt's also just been pointed out to me by someone who watches these threads carefully that a named LPAM station which takes limited advertising has to pay twice as much as a full blown community station on PRS.
Surely that's crazy for a 1 watt AM station.The aspect of how much is demanded to be paid on different platforms and at different audience levels appears to be an unregulated farce.
I'll look carefully at that information a little later.

Ian HicklingPartnerOffice: 016 3557 8435  (07h to 22h GTS)Car: 075 3098 0115 (only responds when driving)6 Horn Street, Compton, NEWBURY, RG20 6QS

From: bill.best at commedia.org.uk
Date: Sat, 2 Jul 2016 17:48:37 +0100
To: cma-l at commedia.org.uk
Subject: Re: [cma-l] Joint PRS/PPL licences

Thanks Ian
The answers to many/all of your questions may be found in the Codes of Conduct for PPL and PRSfM:http://www.ppluk.com/About-Us/Who-We-Are/PPL-Code-of-Conduct/
http://www.prsformusic.com/codeofconduct/pages/default.aspx
Furthermore, the CMA has invited Laura Mullinger from PRSfM and Lucy Cousins from PPL to address the Community Media Conference on Saturday 10th September to be held at Birmingham City University and the invitation has been positively received - nothing confirmed as yet. 
They might not be able to talk too much about the Joint Licence as it might still be under the public consultation but, if they do attend, then PPL and PRSfM can address general issues such as those you have raised.
Best regards
Bill-- Operations Manager
Community Media Association
http://www.commedia.org.uk
https://twitter.com/community_media
https://facebook.com/CommunityMediaAssociation

Canstream Internet Radio
http://www.canstream.co.uk
https://twitter.com/canstream
Book your tickets now for the Community Media Conference 2016: http://bit.ly/2016CMAConf

On 2 July 2016 at 14:52, Ian Hickling <transplanfm at hotmail.com> wrote:

As ever - thanks Bill for taking the trouble to spell out the situation.I would however - at the risk of invoking terminal boredom on the part of some of our friends - query just one word - "licence!".These are not licences.A licence is permission issued by a Statutory Authority to authorise the Licensee to perform a specific function.
Ofcom is precisely that, H M Government's appointed Broadcast Regulator - and in the case of an RSL issues the BA (Broadcasting Act) Licence at £30 per day and the WTA (Wireless Telegraphy Act) Licence  at £40 per day.
Note - these are Licences and do not attract VAT.Important point - see below.PPL and PRSfM are not Statutory Authorities - they are commercial organisations.
They do not issue Licenses - they request Royalty Payments - effectively random sums of their own choosing - which do attract VAT - and become effective once the royalty-earning performance has been achieved - not before.
Do you see the distinct difference?
Fortunately, we're not a broadcaster so I don't have to fight this - but I feel that so many of you just pay up because of a vague threat - not because you can out your finger on a firm legal principle.If I were in this position, I would write to these two organisations with a list of the (say) 120 tracks I'd played on my RSL and ask them as they are claiming the money on behalf of their Members, how much they were going to pay - on my behalf - the singers, songwriters, musicians, composers and record companies in each instance.
That's fair - surely?
I've done my list - which you asked for - you add your part to it.
Ian HicklingPartnerOffice: 016 3557 8435  (07h to 22h GTS)Car: 075 3098 0115 (only responds when driving)6 Horn Street, Compton, NEWBURY, RG20 6QS

From: bill.best at commedia.org.uk
Date: Sat, 2 Jul 2016 13:01:52 +0100
To: cma-l at mailman.commedia.org.uk
Subject: Re: [cma-l] Joint PRS/PPL licences

Thank you for your message, Colin.
Regarding music licence fees for a 28-day RSL, here's a summary.
a) PRS For Music short-term radio licencePRS collect licence fees for the public performance and broadcast of music works on behalf of the UK music publisher.
http://www.prsformusic.com/users/broadcastandonline/Radio/STRL/Pages/shorttermrestricted.aspx
The licence fees are £40 for each day of broadcast plus £70 administration fee exclusive of VAT. For example a four day broadcast would cost £230 plus VAT. Payment must be in advance by enclosing a cheque with the application form. Therefore for a 28-day RSL the cost is £1428.00 in total.
The licence issued by PRS for Music includes the rights to:
Broadcast and simulcast PRS for Music repertoire on radio services transmitted from the UK.
Copy MCPS commercial music repertoire into programme material and trailers.
Copy MCPS production music repertoire into programme and non-programme content such as trailers.
Copy MCPS repertoire onto databases and servers for the purposes of providing the broadcast service.
This licence does not cover the use of music in adverts, commercials, promos, sponsorship messages or any programmes not produced by the station. The full Terms and Conditions are contained in their application pack available online.
b) PPL Short Term Restricted Service Licence:The Short Term Restricted Service Licence covers Ofcom-licensed radio broadcasts for a maximum of 28 days. Any individual or organisation hoping to obtain a Short Term Restricted Service Licence must first obtain approval for their transmission from the UK communications regulator, Ofcom.
If a Short Term Restricted Service broadcaster intends to simulcast these transmissions online they do NOT need to apply for a separate or additional licence, they simply need to fill out the relevant details on the Short Term RSL application form. Terms and conditions:
http://www.ppluk.com/en/I-Play-Music/Radio-Broadcasting/Radio-types/Short-term-licence/For radio broadcasting only the PPL licence fee is £35/day + VAT = £1176-00
To simulcast the RSL online there is a fee of £50 + VAT = £60-00
These combined fees for a 28-day RSL are indeed steep (compared to the annual licences) and, though beyond the scope of the Joint Licence consultation which will relate to full-time community radio stations, the CMA will question the basis on which these sums have been arrived and will make the case to PPL and PRSfM that they do indeed need to be reviewed.
Best regards
Bill Best-- Operations Manager
Community Media Association
http://www.commedia.org.uk
https://twitter.com/community_media
https://facebook.com/CommunityMediaAssociation

Canstream Internet Radio
http://www.canstream.co.uk
https://twitter.com/canstream
Book your tickets now for the Community Media Conference 2016: http://bit.ly/2016CMAConf

On 2 July 2016 at 00:28, Colin Pearse <colin at susyradio.com> wrote:
Hi............................I would add this comment but slightly on a different tack in regard to the proposed new joint PPL / PRS licence proposals.  LET US NOT FORGET the highly unfair tariffs that made undertaking RSL's so stupidly expensive. Problem is that once you have gained your full time licence its easy to forget the cross most of us have had to suffer in paying what were very inflated rates for short term low power temporary broadcast licenses. I always felt that this was almost a case for investigation by the Office of Fair Trading.  Prior to our full licence we did 18 RSL's and were involved with perhaps as many again for other groups. That amounts to a huge pile of cash for the music licenses involved which I and many colleagues have deemed as very unfair. Perhaps we can now have a simple, cheap ticket in the form of a licence for broadcast music of perhaps just a few hundred pounds in order to encourage would be legal experimental broadcasters not as in the current regime of perhaps two and a half thousand pounds.  Three points................Due to the high RSL licence costs why can't it be deemed that all these very expensive licenses were in fact mis sold. PPI all over again!! Secondly, I know of no cases where the illegal broadcasters have been taken to court for non payment of fees. That has always seemed most strange to me seeing as the 'music police' have always been so pro active over the charging of licence fees. Lastly, as the number of radio stations grows to the point where the total exceed the number of possible listeners as the number of broadcasters rises then shouldn't the fees get cheaper. This does fall down on the point that perhaps 'our dear listeners' are enjoying a number of radio stations simultaneously!
Some points for discussion I think.Colin Pearse / SUSY Radio / Reigate & Crawley😊
On 1 July 2016 at 23:33, Eddie Stuart <eddie at kcr.fm> wrote:

     Hi Ian,

    Yup - Agreed NBR etc for PPL/PRS calculations - but I was pointing
    out to Nick that a flat £2K would be more than we currently pay and
    for us would be a sizeable %age increase.... even against our total
    income

    The downside of having been a Community Part-Time Opt-Out from the
    local lLR station is that most of our licence fees etc were covered
    - now we are on our own, it's great, but reality comes crashing in -
    so the £12K will be & is increasing!

    However, we've upped our total income in 18 months from £9K pa to
    £12K pa - so we could well do without what to us would be another
    hit if PPL/PRS has an unbudgeted jump to £2K in 6 months time.....

    Eddie

    KCR broadcasts across Moray and beyond on 107.7FM
and to the world on the internet at http://kcr.fm

KCR is the operating name of Keith Community Radio Ltd.
Registered in Scotland: No SC 173805
Registered Office: 59a Land Street, Keith, Banffshire, AB55 5AN

    On 01/07/16 22:15, Ian Hickling wrote:

      It's not "Turnover" Eddie -
          it's "Net Revenue" - what you have left after you've paid all
          the operating costs.

          Not a lot?

          Ian
                  Hickling

        Partner

          Office: 016 3557
                  8435  (07h to 22h GTS)

          Car: 075 3098 0115
                  (only responds when driving)

          6 Horn
                  Street, Compton, NEWBURY, RG20 6QS

          To: cma-l at mailman.commedia.org.uk

          From: eddie at kcr.fm

          Date: Fri, 1 Jul 2016 19:15:02 +0100

          Subject: Re: [cma-l] Joint PRS/PPL licences

          Hmm - Our normal turnover - in total - is only about
          £12K........ :-)

          Eddie

          KCR broadcasts across Moray and beyond on 107.7FM
and to the world on the internet at http://kcr.fm

KCR is the operating name of Keith Community Radio Ltd.
Registered in Scotland: No SC 173805
Registered Office: 59a Land Street, Keith, Banffshire, AB55 5AN

          On 30/06/16 14:59, Canalside's
            The Thread wrote:

          I
                have suggested £2000 pounds for the lot ! as a top
                figure. When I say the lot, this includes both FM and
                Internet and ALL on one licence, including D.A.B.     if
                we get it 

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