[cma-l] The Cost Of The DAB Trials

[Andy -Bay FM Radio]

Hi David,

I totally agree with that. Especially with our current restrictions.  PPL are the only ones who bang on the door for the dosh if we're so much as a week late, sending patronising emails that start with - "We're extremely disappointed that we've not received your payment yet"? 

We pay quarterly for our PPL but just got wacked for £430 for one quarter and a years internet simulcast because they won't split the internet charge over the the year. I paid this yesterday and today received the annual Ofcom bill for £850 lol.

I know everyone has to pay this but, It's certainly hard to find without any income from advertising & sponsorship.

Andy. 


Sent from Samsung Mobile

-------- Original message --------
From: David Duffy <david at theradiopeople.co.uk> 
Date:12/03/2015  6:21 PM  (GMT+00:00) 
To: Canalside's The Thread <office at thethread.org.uk>,Fantasy Radio Office <office at fantasyradio.co.uk> 
Cc: The Community Media Association Discussion List <cma-l at mailman.commedia.org.uk> 
Subject: Re: [cma-l] The Cost Of The DAB Trials 

Hi Nick/Phil

Just before I reply. can I ask. This email thread it’s missing other people's contributions on the subject of 'The Cost Of The DAB Trials’ that were made previously (including one from me). I don’t begin to understand how mailman works but my earlier response is still on the thread online but not in this email.  What’s that all about?

Anyhow, I wholeheartedly agree.  I think there is a strong case for the CMA to talk to both copyright bodies on the grounds that as the use of their members material is on a not-for-profit basis, community radio stations should be exempt from fees.  Unlike a commercial radio station where ultimately the shareholders gain financially from the use of copyrighted material; or in a shop where the proprietor benefits commercially from playing copyrighted material; the use of the very same copyrighted material on a not-for-profit community radio station just contributes to the service perpetuating. There is no net financial gain. If anything, the playing of their members material contributes to sales, downloads, merchandise, concert tickets, etc. So their must surely be a zero sum argument to be negotiated here on behalf of the Community Radio sector?

David
www.theradiopeople.co.uk 


On 12 Mar 2015, at 16:38, Canalside's The Thread <office at thethread.org.uk> wrote:

 
 
From: Canalside's The Thread [mailto:office at thethread.org.uk] 
Sent: 12 March 2015 14:02
To: 'Geoff Rogers'
Subject: RE: [cma-l] The Cost Of The DAB Trials
 
What I don’t understand and can’t get my head around with all this PPL malarkey is whether someone is listening via FM, Internet or DAB there is still only one of them    ie:- one person. I have never ever listened at the same time to a Radio Broadcast with all three in residence. In fact, there would be a milli-second delay between DAB and FM   I think ??   and in our case 30 seconds out of sync on the Internet stream ……….so, unless someone can tell me otherwise, the person listening is still one person listening to one show via one mode. So why the extra charges anyway ????    sorry chaps, I don’t get that one ?
 
I repeat again …………it’s a half legalised money making racket …………………… nothing more and nothing less
 
I still have an issue with them   re:- reporting (contra deals)       we have a contra with the local Milkman, the local Newsagent and the local Printer … my job is very intense and I am extremely busy, I do not put ticking off how many milk bottles we have a day as a priority so that we can work out a contra cost. It’s a nonsense, as is all the reporting.
I have said this before and I will say it again, they do not understand what NET means         I’m not interested in dividing the square roooooot of 24 by 85% and then taking away the number you first thought of because our end result every year is ZERO      we are not for profit and all monies go back in the project. Likewise, when we were £9000 in the red four years ago, I don’t recall them offering a rebate.
 
I’m not interested in them at all and I believe if it did go to the top we may have a good case if put together correctly.
 
To be honest I am so confused with our Internet and FM and then Phase One another DAB = £500 on top plus reporting would possibly tip me over and I’d go doolally
 
I have been trying to file our figures for the past two weeks ……the first quarter is on, but quarters 2,3 and 4 won’t let me as they keep saying already reported, which I don’’t think they have ….it’s all a waste of time and effort and just causes angst. I can only speak for myself of course    oh   and plenty of others who tell me so, but don’t make their feelings known.
 
Nick
 
From: cma-l-bounces at mailman.commedia.org.uk [mailto:cma-l-bounces at mailman.commedia.org.uk] On Behalf Of Geoff Rogers
Sent: 11 March 2015 18:50
To: CMA-L
Subject: Re: [cma-l] The Cost Of The DAB Trials
 
All the costs seem reasonable apart from the greed shown by PPL insisting on a separate fee for simulcasting on DAB.  It's unbelievable and I cannot see any justification for it, can they prove any loss to revenue by being aired on a trial DAB service?? I give huge credit to PRS for being realistic and encouraging these trials by waiving any extra fee as they no doubt see that there is absolutely no justification for it.  
 
I think we should shout 'unfair' loudly and refuse to take part in the trial if we are to be subjected to this blatantly unfair and extra burden on what after all is supposed to be a trial for everyone's benefit.
 
We should take a stand !
 
I'll stop ranting now.
 
Kind regards to all
 
Geoff
 
On 11 March 2015 at 17:46, Two Lochs Radio <tlr at gairloch.co.uk> wrote:
That looks about right as far as it goes Andy, but then...
 
David Duffy of the Radio People says in his localDAB website on the topic that to increase the chances of succeeding most stations would benefit from a professionally-written application, which he suggested would cost £900 upwards, or a self-written one can be 'polished up' professionally for £250. He also estimated installation costs at £350 upwards, typically £500. So, for stations that don't have the resources to write a comprehensive application or do the installation engineering that brings us to the region of:
 
Existing FM Community Station £1450-£2250 (or more depending on installation costs)
Existing Online Only Station £2300-£3100 (or more depending on installation costs) 
 
There are other potential costs. 
 
For example if your mast is sited in a designated Area of Outstanding Natural Beauty or National Scenic Area (as ours are), then you need planning permission for additional aerials (in theory even for a small change on an existing mast), which is a another few hundred pounds. On some sites there is a substantial (sometimes hundreds of pounds) access or rigging supervision charge from the site owner, or a requirement to use their nominated riggers. The station is also responsible for installation sundries such as any extra brackets and mounting hardware.
 
There are also running costs, plus probably at the very least 100 staff/volunteer work hours.  The good news is the standard setup will consume only 150W or so power, so only around £100 in electricity.
 
Ofcom also says it aims ideally to have four Type 1 trials and three each of type 2 and 3. However, it will only pay for all the equipment for Type 1 trials, pluse two Type 2 trials and one Type 3 trials, which implies that a Type 2 triallist and two Type 3 triallists might be invited to pay for their own equipment. In the absence of any willing to do so, I guess they will have fewer than 10 trials, or they will simply have more Type 1 trials than they would ideally like.
 
Of course, at the end of the day, even an all-in cost over 9 months of, say, £4,000  is a probably fraction of what most existing multiplex operations would charge you for 9 months carriage, and presumably for some there is the possibility of the trial multiplex operator charging a fee to partner content providers for their carriage on the trial multiplex. (wonder if this would count as broadcast revenue in terms of CR licence conditions?!)
 
However, after 9 months you have no transmission equipment and no continuing licence - it is all 'sunk costs' with little residual value. But hopefully you have some good experience of its impact on listening habits locally, and it could be a great opportunity in some ways.  I guess it's best looked at as a glorified RSL. Let's hope that in reality Ofcom decides to offer new long term licences for the successful trial areas and disposes of the equipment to them for a nominal value only.
 
I suppose another option is to sit back and let others carry the cost of being triallists, and just wait for the long-term small-scale opportunities to become available!
 
Alex
 
----- Original Message ----- 
From: Bay Fm Radio
To: cma-l at mailman.commedia.org.uk
Sent: Wednesday, March 11, 2015 3:58 PM
Subject: [cma-l] The Cost Of The DAB Trials
 
Hi everyone.
 
We’ve done some homework regarding the cost of the DAB trials - If I’m stating the obvious/cross posting I apologise.  However, I thought you might appreciate my sharing this with you.
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