[cma-l] Community Radio Order

Ian Hickling transplanfm at hotmail.com
Fri Jan 23 14:27:25 GMT 2015 

I feel it's important that we are looking here at a constitutional entitlement to carry advertising - and t5hat we don't get bogged down in a discussion on audience size - which we all know it a totally unknown entity.Even if CR were included in RAJAR it's fair to say that the result would be no more than a guess - and statistically worthless guess at that.But it happens to be the only available guess and one that we'll be forever stuck with.
From: alan.coote at 5digital.co.uk
To: cma-l at mailman.commedia.org.uk
Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2015 13:18:47 +0000
Subject: Re: [cma-l] Community Radio Order

James, I’ll fill in the blanks in my previous sentence… “You may well be right about [there not being ]the 10 million [people listing to community radio]”. But your blog post on the Media UK website was great up to the point you mentioned RAJAR.  Unless you have access to the data it’s not statistically possible to calculate what the CR audience is  and, even if you did, the sample size would be too small so the confidence level of the results would mean a station could have plus or minus double digit % reach. I think there’s an issue in the Ofcom report too if they have used station’s MCAs (not stated) to arrive at the a figure of 10 million potential listeners. Even though not everyone will listen it does not take into account Out of Area Listening.         We found when surveying The Bay in Bournemouth that a good proportion of people listened in their car significantly beyond the MCA. During AM and PM drive this was as much as 20%. I don’t know if this is normal and the same for commercial or BBC radio?  We put this phenomena down a combination to the quirkiness of the limited transmitter power, the sensitivity of modern RDS radios and the poor antenna on most kitchen top radios.  The hypothesis is that 25 watts doesn’t penetrate buildings (especially ones using modern construction materials) at the edges of the MCA. However modern RDS car radios are excellent and provide listenable results way outside of the MCA. For example my RDS car radio identifies 3 community stations and all of them are fine to listen to as I travel around. I’m not in any of their MCAs.   So the answer to your Blog “How many people listen to Community Radio?” Can’t be answered using RAJAR and Ofcom’s MCA analysis doesn’t tell the whole story. The only guarantee is that it’s somewhere between zero and what physics says is possible.    Your guess is as good as mine! Kind RegardsAlan Email - alan.coote at 5digital.co.ukPhone - 0800 949 6655Mobile - 07801 518858Twitter - @TheAlanCooteWeb - http://www.5digital.co.uk  Let’s Talk BusinessTwitter - @LTBShowWeb - http://www.LetsTalkBusinessOnline.com The Media Production, Broadcasting and Training Company From: cma-l-bounces at mailman.commedia.org.uk [mailto:cma-l-bounces at mailman.commedia.org.uk] On Behalf Of James Cridland
Sent: 22 January 2015 11:32
To: The Community Media Association Discussion List
Subject: Re: [cma-l] Community Radio Order >You may well be right about the 10 million, but it was published by Ofcom. No, it wasn't. Your claim was that 10m people listen to community radio.Ofcom published that 10.5m live in an area which has access to a community radio service. Let's be very clear: 10m people are *not* listening to community radio, and it is wholly unrealistic to claim otherwise. On Thu Jan 22 2015 at 11:04:33 AM Alan Coote <alan.coote at 5digital.co.uk> wrote:Hi James, You may well be right about the 10 million, but it was published by Ofcom.  I pointed out the problems of using RAJAR’s ‘Other’ category to determine an un-surveyed audience, be they community radio or small commercial. It doesn’t make any sense.Possibly the only solution would be to take a panel of independently surveyed community stations and use that across the total community radio universe to arrive at a reach.  This figure couldn’t be used of course by individual stations, but may be an indicator of the sector as a whole. To answer my own question about the confidence level of RAJAR they helpfully have this on their website. http://www.rajar.co.uk/content.php?page=about_process_using#1.3 Kind RegardsAlan From: cma-l-bounces at mailman.commedia.org.uk [mailto:cma-l-bounces at mailman.commedia.org.uk] On Behalf Of James Cridland
Sent: 22 January 2015 10:02
To: The Community Media Association Discussion List
Subject: Re: [cma-l] Community Radio Order Alan,

RAJAR does have its flaws, but you are not saying it's entirely useless, I assume, and therefore it also has some credibility. I'd be more keen to not slag off RAJAR, and instead, make statements about community radio's audience that are rooted in some kind of fact. The 10m figure is entirely false. j On Thu Jan 22 2015 at 9:43:31 AM Richard Berry <richard.berry at sunderland.ac.uk> wrote:I *think* I know what you’re getting at Nick, and I agree with you. Audience size is just one measure of success for our sector. We could also talk about the number of people trained, diversity of content, or the voices that would have otherwise been excluded. If we are to use RAJAR terminology, the ‘reach’ is important to some of us. A community station aimed at the whole community should aim to reach everyone at some point in the year, or at least the 5 year licence. To an extent we are like the local library, not everyone comes, but they know where it is and that somewhere buried in the shelves there will be something for them there. But better than that, if there isn’t they can put it there with our support. When it comes to clients I think there is a different conversation to be had. For example, is there benefit in being associated with a community station? And does that station reach people who are not being reached by other local media? In most cases the answers and ‘yes’ and ‘yes’. Which brings us back to Pippa’s point. I think there are multiple types of community stations, and multiple approaches to running them. Some of us come from radio backgrounds, some places like community arts and volunteering, and others directly into community radio as helpers and presenters. Some stations want to sound like good local radio stations (the way they used to be), for some it’s a place of training, and others run diverse services where pop music is all but banned. That is our core strength, we are different, we’ll all probably not agree on what’s right, but we should support each other and build one sector.  Whatever today’s order says there’s bound to be disappointment, but then what one station dislikes about it, another may well celebrate as being the one thing they were hoping for. As I say, we’re all different…. And with that, back to work  Richard Berry
Senior Lecturer in Radio / Spark FM Station Manager
Room 101B, David Puttnam Media Centre,
University of Sunderland, SR6 0DD
(+44) 0191 515 2239                  From: cma-l-bounces at mailman.commedia.org.uk [mailto:cma-l-bounces at mailman.commedia.org.uk] On Behalf Of Canalside's The Thread
Sent: 21 January 2015 19:36
To: 'The Community Media Association Discussion List'
Subject: Re: [cma-l] Community Radio Order You see guys, sorry to appear to be looking for an argument, but all of this ought to be irrelevant under the original launch of Community Radio. It is the fact that we have less or more listeners or the same that causes the problems. If we are going around saying we have more listeners than whoever ?   then the restrictions kinda come into play. I know they shouldn’t and I know that if we have more listeners (or don’t) it shouldn’t matter. It ought to have no bearing on it. Sadly it has had a bearing and my point weeks ago, was that the message being sent out there now is all gobbledy gook. Are we competing, are we not competing, if we are not ought we be, if we are should we not be  ??   it’s a shambles .I believe Community Radio should be simplistic, it should be Que sera sera and restrictions should be no where in sight. Whatever will be will be and we all deal with it. I don’t care if we have more or less listeners than Silk ..why ?  because if Community Radio was running how it is meant to be, we would have enough funding from the Community Fund Pot, to pay for the essentials and core costs. In otherwords, if we were 100% voluntary, with folk wandering in willy nilly, we could still function in some way shape or form. This is with or without a Station manager and/or someone on sales etc                 I think this is how many saw Community Radio. Right or wrong, poor image or good image, it shouldn’t matter as we ought to be able to function even if we are rag tag and bobtail. Does everyone know where I am coming from here or am I waffling again ?    I feel that we have lost our way, but it isn’t exactly our fault. What the restrictions have done, along with the lack of financial support in the Pot has distorted the whole Venture, hence why I was saying there is confusion. It isn’t confusion in the true sense of the word but I think a few shots in own feet have taken place. Keep it simple has been my message. I don’t expect everyone to agree ….. but ???                  Rajar shouldn’t even be on the Radar, if that makes sense. The moment we start asking to be placed on Rajar, I think we are going away from our values. We’re not here to compete, even though in a roundabout way we are. We have to compete because the financial support has been woeful ….. so is it a wonder why I reach for the defensive stick ?? If I’m wrong here, please say so, that’s fine by me    no probs. Nick From: cma-l-bounces at mailman.commedia.org.uk [mailto:cma-l-bounces at mailman.commedia.org.uk] On Behalf Of Two Lochs Radio
Sent: 21 January 2015 18:39
To: The Community Media Association Discussion List
Subject: Re: [cma-l] Community Radio Order Well done Paul!  From RAJAR's latest available quarter that reach would put your listener numbers ahead of at least 20 of the commercial stations that are RAJAR subscribers, including Smooth Radio Essex, and ahead of many more that don't pay RAJAR! Alex  RAJAR quarter ending Sep 2014StationReachEagle Extra3,000Fire Radio South Coast4,000Connect DAB7,000Radio Ceredigion16,000107.8 Arrow FM for Hastings17,000107 JACK fm (Reading 107FM)18,000The Breeze (Cheltenham)18,000107.6 Banbury Sound18,000Free Radio 80s (Shropshire)19,000Rugby FM20,000Lakeland Radio20,000107.5 Sovereign Radio21,00096.2 Touch FM - Coventry22,000Time FM 106.623,000North Norfolk Radio23,000Radio Exe24,000Pulse 226,0003FM26,000Smooth Radio Essex28,000Oak FM28,000Smooth Radio Devon29,000Cheshire's Silk 106.929,000 ----- Original Message ----- From: Paul Golder To: The Community Media Association Discussion List Sent: Wednesday, January 21, 2015 6:01 PMSubject: Re: [cma-l] Community Radio Order I've contracted with a private market research firm a few times since we took to the airwaves full time in 2007. We're currently getting a 20% weekly reach which implies about 30,000 listeners a week.  Our website visitor figures (over 200,000 per month, with 12,000 a month viewing the schedule and local events pages) seem to make sense in this context. I wasn't aware that RAJAR was skewed towards its members' areas, which would make any extrapolation of the "other radio listening" figure quite meaningless. It's natural for CR to be defensive with the suggestion that CR has half a million listeners - but I'm just not buying it.  That's only an average of 2,000 per station - I could probably NAME at least 3,000 people who engage with us regularly! CheersPaulPhoenix FMwww.phoenixfm.com 
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