[cma-l] FW: Community Radio Spot Rate
Canalside's The Thread
office at thethread.org.uk
Wed Feb 4 14:55:58 GMT 2015
_____
From: Canalside's The Thread [mailto:office at thethread.org.uk]
Sent: 04 February 2015 14:55
To: 'David Duffy'
Subject: RE: [cma-l] Community Radio Spot Rate
Dear All (David)
True.
Once again, don’t take this too literally. I don’t in the memory of man
think I would ever do that, regardless of the amount to be honest. It’s
merely the thought of doing it that kind of calms the water. We’re not a bad
bunch here you know, and we have been shafted on about 25 occasions over the
past 10 years
this is because we don’t have (PIA) this backs up what
you are saying here.
To prove that this type of rhetoric was more of ‘letting steam off’
‘huffing and puffing’ ‘hot-air’ you will see that the phrase ‘’once
bitten twice shy’’ has gone completely out the window LOL this is
either = folly or simply backs up that WE ARE COMMUNITY and WE ARE
GOODWILL, and regardless what is lobbed at us we are not going to be removed
from that task and vision. This is what we are, and if it means we leave
ourselves wide open or slightly open, then so be it.
I would much prefer to work on goodwill, but as I mentioned in my previous
e-mail not all folk are like us. What you see is what you get, some don’t
like it, some do
you can’t win em all.
These guys to be honest for £123 quid
. It’s their loss and certainly not
ours, plus, we can hold our heads up high as we have done nothing wrong. It
is extremely irritating though.
As for being dragged down, you’re right. And lots of things can detract you
and can drag you down. I think with the experiences of restrictions and all
this sort of stuff, at times we have been dragged that low we could have
crawled under a snakes belly with a top Hat on :-) LOL
Keep smilin’ :-) onwards and upwards or sidewards (round in
circles ?) LOL whichever ?
Regards
Nick
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From: David Duffy [mailto:david at theradiopeople.co.uk]
Sent: 04 February 2015 14:23
To: Canalside's The Thread
Subject: Re: [cma-l] Community Radio Spot Rate
Nick et al,
I would recommend that everyone should operate a 'payment in advance’ (PIA)
policy these days. PIA for comprod and PIA for the airtime, monthly in
advance. If you use voice artists or external compared I would also
recommend that you ask them what their tariff would be if you paid them in
advance. I can’t believe the number of VO artist that spend hours each week
on the phone chasing payment after a session. It would help them and should
help you get a better price from them.
As for taking someone to the Small Claims court - for what it’s worth, Nick,
walk away. Apart from the financial cost of taking someone to court (which
admittedly is low) there is an emotional cost. It drags you down and takes
you away from all the good stuff you are doing. Sure, it sends out a message
that ‘we are not to be messed with’ but that not always the strong arm image
that a community organisation want to portrait.
David
The Radio People
Email: david at theradiopeople.co.uk
Website: www.theradiopeople.co.uk <http://theradiopeople.co.uk>
Twitter: @theradiopeople <http://www.twitter.com/theradiopeople>
Facebook: facebook.com/theradiopeopleuk
<https://www.facebook.com/theradiopeopleuk>
On 3 Feb 2015, at 19:29, Canalside's The Thread <office at thethread.org.uk>
wrote:
Paul et al
If you read my e-mail re :- pricing, you will see that our price is actually
the same
it is the duration or payments that change, except the actual
amount is the same ie:- £102.80p so this figure can equate to £5000
grand or £500 quid or £50 quid
well maybe not, but you catch my drift ?
then of course you add on the amount of spots per rotation and then the
customer is actually choosing their own rate according to what they can
afford.
The only danger that we do face is if the ones advertising are doing exactly
that <> ADVERTISING if there isn’t a shred of goodwill and the fact
that they are supporting a community project then there can be issues
.. if
they only come on for £200 quid and don’t get any leads (which has happened
the odd time) then even though the figure is low, it is still in their
opinion a wasted £200 quid.
Having said that, we have some on with us who have been with us for 11 years
on £250 quid
.. they support us for the right reasons
We’ve gotten one bunch off Doughnuts at the moment who came on for £123.36p
we’ve done the advert, we’ve had it playing out for 3 – 4 months, advert on
the website, newsletter, they’ve even been in the studio for free on two
occasions before the advert and they haven’t paid. The guy is now playing
aloof, he’s rude, a coward and completely out of order. I have even said to
him, if he doesn’t want to do it anymore just say so, give us £50 quid and
call it quits end result nothing
It’s not the £123 quid, it’s now a moral issue and we have over the years
had the odd one or two of these types
. I take a dim view to this type of
thing as I come from the era of ‘’pay, and be paid’’ if everyone behaved
like this, the Economy would grind to a halt.
I am very busy at the moment, in fact too busy, and there are not enough
hours in a day, but I seriously am thinking of taking this buffoon to the
local small claims court and banging on all the costs and expenses.
What stops me and what actually makes me want to put him on a very small
adhoc now and then rotation is the business he runs is for kids .. I’m not
going into detail, but it is good in the community and I don’t want it to
fail. The fact he hasn’t communicated is the issue
he could be making a
fortune, he might be struggling
if he is, then I’ll run it for nowt
because some of the project you could say is a community project, it’s a
tricky one. For goodness sake though £123 quid and free access to what’s ons
and studio interview time and adverts
.er ? NO BRAINER !
Moral of the story
go back to point number one
we are worth what we
can get and we are worth or valued ??? at what they value us at and not
what we actually think our value is.
Whilst I was typing out this e-mail First Steps Nursery came on the Radio
.
They have been with us for 11 years, never faltered on payments and a breath
of fresh air. We operate on goodwill, not signed documents and we return
goodwill for goodwill. I live my life like that and I try to encourage our
team here to the same.
With regards to Mr Doughnut who owes £123 quid
. I suppose the best bet
really is to feel sorry for him, it’s to be pitied really when you can’t see
goodwill even when it is staring you in the face
.turn the other cheek
says one side of me.
Has anybody else got some good IOU stories ? cheques’ in the post and
all that jazz ? or simply been taken to the cleaners ?
Nick
_____
From: cma-l-bounces at mailman.commedia.org.uk
[mailto:cma-l-bounces at mailman.commedia.org.uk] On Behalf Of Paul Golder
Sent: 03 February 2015 09:39
To: The Community Media Association Discussion List
Subject: Re: [cma-l] Community Radio Spot Rate
This is from my own experience:
- If you tell a company that your adverts are worth £300 a year, they'll
believe you.
- If you tell a company that your adverts are worth £3,000 a year, they'll
believe you. They might not be willing to pay for it, but they'll believe
it's worth it.
Although we all know that the lower the price, the higher the demand, it's
definitely NOT 10 times easier to sell for £300 than £3,000. I can name two
former local community stations - TGR and Link FM - who got their pricing
wrong. One advertised packages from £100 a year on their website. Re the
other, we were approached by a local company who were offended when I asked
them for £2,000 a year to sponsor a show as they were sponsoring the
equivalent show on the other station for £4 a week!
I rarely do deals for less than £1,000 unless it's for a short term
advertiser who can give me both the finished advert and the payment up
front. It's just too much hassle. Ignoring these occasional ones, my
average sale is now £4,000. Other radio and newspapers locally have been
putting prices up too so we're lucky not to suffer from cut-throat
competition. Oh, and get a salesman who DOESN'T want to be a superstar DJ
and does his job, it WILL pay for itself and more!
I've also found that the people who are likely to cause problems with
payments in the middle or end of a campaign are the ones who pay hundreds,
not thousands. I don't know why - maybe if you pay a higher level you've
made a business decision and it's easier to justify sticking to it, whereas
if you pay a small figure you're expecting a much quicker return.
Definitely something to do with small businessman psychology.
A lot of local businesses believe that if you charge low prices, you're
telling them that even YOU don't think it's worth much, and whether that's
fair or not I tend to agree with them.
Apologies to those stations who do charge low prices because I know there's
a variety of other reasons why you could do that and that it would work for
you - it wouldn't work for us though.
Cheers
Paul
www.phoenixfm.com <http://www.phoenixfm.com/>
On 3 February 2015 at 00:21, Eddie Stuart <eddie at kcr.fm> wrote:
David,
Interesting to read "the 6 pricing strategies".
We've had 17yrs as a Community weekday evenings only opt-out from the local
ILR station and the agreement with them only allowed limited sponsorship, no
advertising.
Once we were running on our own licence (& transmitter etc) in 2014 the
situation changed. Several people in the industry advised us to take
advantage of all the "go-live" publicity and for a while to charge "Rate
card + a premium" - exactly the opposite of the "Penetration Pricing"
strategy!
As regards some people saying that "that's too much" - you will always get
that. One that we had - I bought all the various local papers in our
broadcast area one week.
I phoned several firms that week where I knew people well enough for off the
record enquiries to see if it had been a busy or quiet week for the papers -
ie had adverts been booked a long time ahead or were they last minute ones,
were people paying full rate to the papers or was there much discounting to
sell white space (appeared not so that week - not 100% accurate, I know,
but.......)
I know that white space affects papers rather than radio but we wanted to
guesstimate how much the firm was spending a week.
We were then able to decide that if the firm were paying that much, even a
half-decent campaign with us would still cost far less than they were paying
the papers, & that we shouldn't/wouldn't devalue our product. They had
admitted that being on KCR had increased their footfall and were, frankly,
having a laugh......
There are times to turn down business!
In contrast, we have had several non-commercial organisations happy to take
a block of adverts at what they felt was a very reasonable rate compared to
the ILR / newspaper charges - "No-brainer" was one comment..... (That's not
charities etc BTW - we have free Community Corner / Community Announcements
slots for them)
Regards,
Eddie
On 02/02/15 18:14, David Duffy wrote:
I've done a lot of work on product and service pricing over the years and it
often bears no relationship either to worth or value. We have this
<http://www.theradiopeople.co.uk/pricing> simple table which you might find
useful. It shows the 6 pricing <http://www.theradiopeople.co.uk/pricing>
strategies that are most commonly used in radio. Enjoy!
All the best
David
Senior Partner - The Radio People
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