[cma-l] Community Radio Spot Rate
David Duffy
david at theradiopeople.co.uk
Wed Feb 4 00:43:58 GMT 2015
Hi Tam
If you’ve been following this thread you’ll have seen our link on pricing http://www.theradiopeople.co.uk/pricing.html <http://www.theradiopeople.co.uk/pricing.html> . What you are proposing is a form of Penetration Pricing. It’s used when you want to ramp up sales quickly and is usually restricted in some way. There are many examples of this including the RadioDays Europe convention coming up in Milan who offered significant discounts to early birds who buy their tickets before a particular date. They want to get a glut of money in to cover a significant proportion of the early establishment costs.
Eddie mentioned earlier in the thread of the danger of establishing a low price and then trying to sell at a higher price later. This is not a problem if you have a pricing strategy (which most don’t) and you frame the promotion properly. Your ‘Early Bird’ is a good example of this. You are establishing a promotional price/deadline and you are asking your target market to recognise it as such and you are giving them a valid reason for it. Both parties seller & buyer accept the premise on which the offer is made. The implicit/explicit implication is that the price will return to ‘normal’ after the promotion. If it is clearly set out then you won’t be devaluing your product Tam. We all like a deal. Or we all like to think we are getting a deal. The important thing to remember in the sales negotiation process is, that if you offer (or someone asks for) a discount then, you must get something in return. That is business. Once you lose the equitable exchange the business relationship is out of balance.
Quickly, on your two other points. We must all get away from an over dependence on traditional ratings and listening figures and focus on engagement - in all its facets. This applies to commercial radio as well as community. I have believed this for years and I am delighted to share with you this short piece from Keith Hindle CEO of Brand at Fremantle Media (X Factor, BGT, AI) http://bit.ly/16j6eSL <http://bit.ly/16j6eSL> It’s a 2 minute read.
Lastly, I would echo what Paul at Phoenix wrote and also preference sponsorships over spot advertising. They tend to bigger ticket sales, take fewer sales calls and are more cost effective to make and schedule. Sponsorships also speak to partnerships rather than exposing yourself to the bare knuckle short-termism that is spot advertising. (Social Housing is one I always get my clients to go after first)
Good luck with the launch!
David Duffy
The Radio People
Email: david at theradiopeople.co.uk <mailto:david at theradiopeople.co.uk>
Website: www.theradiopeople.co.uk <http://theradiopeople.co.uk/>
Twitter: @theradiopeople <http://www.twitter.com/theradiopeople>
Facebook: facebook.com/theradiopeopleuk <https://www.facebook.com/theradiopeopleuk>
> On 3 Feb 2015, at 18:43, Canalside's The Thread <office at thethread.org.uk> wrote:
>
> Some advice Tam for what it’s worth J ……. This discount malarkey is a folly. Regardless whether it is an early bird or not, remember we all operate over a smaller MCA / TSA …. and most of the customers, donors, sponsors know each other, if someone is getting it cheaper than someone else then you are heading for trouble. Throwing in a few extras re:- on-air for early bird is a better approach ……. Ie :- a set of random adverts at early brekky or late night. Everybody needs to be on the same rate really and then you have a steady Ship from the outset.
>
> Obviously, I can’t set your rate for you as I don’t know what your worth oh blast I’ve said that word again Laugh out Loud indeed
>
> All the best
>
> Nick
>
> From: cma-l-bounces at mailman.commedia.org.uk <mailto:cma-l-bounces at mailman.commedia.org.uk> [mailto:cma-l-bounces at mailman.commedia.org.uk <mailto:cma-l-bounces at mailman.commedia.org.uk>] On Behalf Of Tam Curry
> Sent: 03 February 2015 12:49
> To: The Community Media Association Discussion List
> Subject: Re: [cma-l] Community Radio Spot Rate
>
> Hi all,
>
> I've been paying particular attention to this thread as we've now come up with our first rate card ahead of our launch on 19th March and I'm starting to question whether we should be offering our 50% discount for early bird customers!
>
> I certainly don't want to de-value our service - do you think it best to keep the discount idea on the back burner for now and see how it goes?
>
> Obviously we don't yet have the benefit of approximate listener numbers although we do intend on referring to our RSL listener figures - purely from folk accessing our web service which are exact, although potentially misleading as we wouldn't account for length of listening time.
>
> Our aim is to rope in 8 - 16 advertisers prior to launch, which I hope will potentially attract more interest in the service. At the very least it gives our advertising chap something quite real to refer to when doing the rounds..
>
> Cheers
>
> Tam
>
> On 3 February 2015 at 11:35, Paul Golder <paul at pvg.co.uk <mailto:paul at pvg.co.uk>> wrote:
> When I was running RLSs with The Phoenix (as it was known then) and Mayflower FM (if anyone remembers that!) back in 1995-1996 I was charging a basic package of £250 a month for spot ads.
>
> And I still am! (Although everything is yearly and negotiated up or down from there).
>
> According to various websites, 20 years of inflation is about 73% so £250 then is worth £434 today.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On 3 February 2015 at 11:11, Tony Bailey <ravensound at pilgrimsound.co.uk <mailto:ravensound at pilgrimsound.co.uk>> wrote:
> There's a great deal of good advice on this thread and I don't have a take on 24/7 operation, although our experience over many years of RSLs was that we could always sell spots locally to cover our licence costs even though I was never sure the shops got more customers! The basic rate was around 50 quid excluding production (1980's - 90's) for 28 days (cash up front!). One thing no one has mentioned I think, we closed down a few shops, or rather, they were using radio as a last gasp attempt! Another thing, don't let anyone tell you that small scale commercial radio is bad competition - we certainly generated customers for ILR after we introduced them to radio advertising.
>
> Tony Bailey
>
>
> On 02/02/15 18:14, David Duffy wrote:
>> Alan asked 'Can your station survive if you charge 23p per spot?' The short answer is probably, so long as that is not your only product.
>>
>> Don’t forget, clients will expect a discount if they buy more that one spot so that 23p at list will rapidly become 16p at discount. Then you have to ask, will the discounted price cover the cost of sales (COS)? If not then raise the list price. If it does cover COS then at least it’s making some (small) contribution to the business. Whether it contributes to your profitability depends on your underlying costs. And we all know their are great disparities in this sector when it comes to operating costs.
>>
>> The problem with underpricing a product is that the perceived value is reduced. And remember - the value is not related to the worth. Worth is the language of the seller and is about what the seller can get. Value is the language of the buyer and is about the usefulness or desirability of the product to the buyer. Value is not a number. Sometimes, as Nick pointed out so graphically, some prospective customers cannot see the value (even if you gave it to them for free!). Equally, as Alan points out rising the price can work. I often recount the story of how Remington increased the price for its electric razors and gained more customers because people associated the low price with low value. Raising the price raised the perceived value.
>>
>> Pippa’s ‘Enterprise hour’ keys into an emerging trend for 'native advertising' that we are working on with a number of community stations. It allow stations to attract income by airing content that is of interest to listeners and doesn’t compromise the non-commercial sound of the station.
>>
>> I've done a lot of work on product and service pricing over the years and it often bears no relationship either to worth or value. We have this simple table <http://www.theradiopeople.co.uk/pricing> which you might find useful. It shows the 6 pricing strategies <http://www.theradiopeople.co.uk/pricing> that are most commonly used in radio. Enjoy!
>>
>> All the best
>>
>> David
>> Senior Partner - The Radio People
>>
>> <image001.jpg>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> On 2 Feb 2015, at 17:17, Pippa at Curly Radio <pippa at curlyradio.com <mailto:pippa at curlyradio.com>> wrote:
>>>
>>> My goodness I’m surprised to read that you wanted to charge charities to advertise their events. Before I set up Wycombe Sound, another CR practitioner warned me “not to bring a charity in, because otherwise they will all want a go”.
>>>
>>> In Wycombe, over two RSLs we actively invited charities to come in and talk about their work and events. Many did, and with only the shortest reference to fundraising as we wound up the interviews. Listeners loved hearing about all the good work which was going on under their noses, which otherwise they wouldn’t know about.
>>>
>>> As a result of the interesting and varied local content, which obviously contained more than just interviews with charities, the audience built quickly and businesses came knocking with cash in hand because they knew we were reaching listeners.
>>>
>>> Going further, in Wycombe Sound’s most recent outing, we invited ‘very small businesses’ – the sole traders, crafters, mobile hairdressers and beauticians, chimney sweeps etc, to come in for 5 minutes and talk about their businesses for free. We called it “Enterprise Hour” and ran it once a week for four weeks. I thought we would be inundated, but we weren’t – I think that type of slot takes time to build – but the listeners loved it because it roused their interest. Again, we had lots of interest in advertising from the business sector. In fact, we had to turn some away because we couldn’t give them an impact in the short time we had remaining.
>>>
>>> I’m sure different strategies work for different stations. For me though, the content comes first and that in turn will build audience and revenue.
>>>
>>> Pippa
>>> 07973 710963 <tel:07973%20710963>
>>> @curly_radio
>>> @wycombesound
>>>
>>>
>>> From: Alan Coote <mailto:alan.coote at 5digital.co.uk>
>>> Sent: Monday, February 02, 2015 4:41 PM
>>> To: 'The Community Media Association Discussion List' <mailto:cma-l at mailman.commedia.org.uk>
>>> Subject: Re: [cma-l] Community Radio Spot Rate
>>>
>>> I had the same problem when running The Bay in Poole and <>Bournemouth. Without a word of a lie, 3 different charities phoned one morning asking for commercial airtime for free. I asked if they had any budget for advertising their events, 2 said yes. But none thought that we would charge!
>>>
>>> Back to the spot rate… I don’t know any station who can sell all their inventory at full rate card, so rather than £80 a day think just £20.
>>>
>>> Here’s another tail - At The Bay we doubled our published rates and guess what, we attracted bigger and better clients. Yes there we’re fewer and I’m not suggesting that money was rolling in, it wasn’t, but it stopped us going broke. It also meant we were selling to companies needing to raise awareness as much as generate leads – an important factor for small stations.
>>>
>>> To add a bit of perspective, most local commercial stations won’t get out of bed to sell a package for less than £1000 at spots rates around £4 upwards, it’s just not worth their while. The minimum to get on a Heart station is around £4500 and a regional is near double that.
>>>
>>> Commercial sales – yes been there, it’s difficult, but a rate of 23p a spot is surely putting the station at risk?
>>>
>>> Kind Regards
>>> Alan
>>>
>>> Hear Alan Every Week on Let’s Talk Business The UK’s Premier Radio Programme For Current and Future Entrepreneurs - Now Broadcast To 5 Million People <http://www.letstalkbusinessonline.com/>
>>>
>>> Email - alan.coote at 5digital.co.uk <mailto:alan.coote at 5digital.co.uk>
>>> Phone - 0800 949 6655 <tel:0800%20949%206655>
>>> Mobile - 07801 518858 <tel:07801%20518858>
>>> Twitter - @TheAlanCoote <http://www.twitter.com/TheAlanCoote>
>>> Web - http://www.5digital.co.uk <http://www.5digital.co.uk/>
>>>
>>> Let’s Talk Business
>>> Twitter - @LTBShow <http://www.twitter.com/LTBShow>
>>> Web - http://www.LetsTalkBusinessOnline.com <http://www.letstalkbusinessonline.com/>
>>>
>>> <image001..gif>
>>> The Media Production, Broadcasting and Training Company
>>>
>>> From: cma-l-bounces at mailman.commedia.org.uk <mailto:cma-l-bounces at mailman.commedia.org.uk> [mailto:cma-l-bounces at mailman.commedia.org.uk <mailto:cma-l-bounces at mailman.commedia.org.uk>] On Behalf Of Canalside's The Thread
>>> Sent: 02 February 2015 15:06
>>> To: 'The Community Media Association Discussion List'
>>> Subject: Re: [cma-l] Community Radio Spot Rate
>>>
>>> Mmm ?……………there’s the old adage ‘’we’re worth, what we can get’’ and no more.
>>>
>>> It’s a bit similar to going to a record fair, it depends which area you go to. A vintage record on the circuit and going for around £75 quid, might only fetch £15 at a different venue.
>>> Some areas are more wealthy than others ? is this Station operating in an area of deprivation and less businesses per-head ?
>>>
>>> It’s a learning curve setting the rates …. What some consider cost effective others may think too much we have a Package 1 … it cost’s = £123.34p for the WHOLE YEAR I won’t go into what you get but certainly a pub or organisation that put events is onto a winner as they get to use our events planner for free, they get an advert popping up here and there and a logo on the website ……..one woman who runs a bar in Macclesfield told me that our prices were wait for it ‘’extortionate’’ !!! her words not mine, and how could any business afford that sort of cost ?? ! I explained ‘’no no no’’ ‘’there seems to be a misunderstanding’’ ‘’this isn’t weekly or monthly, this is for the whole year’’
>>> She said words to the effect of ‘’no chance’’
>>>
>>> The business does appear here and there but mainly in the areas where they can FREE-LOAD. And there lies another problem …. Some people seem to think that because we are Community Radio and we are Voluntary led then everything for some bizarre reason is free ?? this Lady was of a similar opinion, and got quite uppity.
>>> I informed her that I was coming to Town on the Friday with 6 of my mates, and we were so enthused by the Bar that we were going to spend the whole evening in there drinking ……….. presuming of course that all the Beer was free ??????
>>>
>>> Even after being sarcastic, she simply didn’t ‘get it’ ?? it seems to be rife in our business doesn’t it ? this ‘’’not getting it’’’ ?
>>>
>>> Nick
>>>
>>> From: cma-l-bounces at mailman.commedia.org.uk <mailto:cma-l-bounces at mailman.commedia.org.uk> [mailto:cma-l-bounces at mailman.commedia.org.uk <mailto:cma-l-bounces at mailman.commedia.org.uk>] On Behalf Of Alan Coote
>>> Sent: 02 February 2015 14:37
>>> To: cma-l at mailman.commedia.org.uk <mailto:cma-l at mailman.commedia.org.uk>; cma-l at commedia.org.uk <mailto:cma-l at commedia.org.uk>
>>> Subject: [cma-l] Community Radio Spot Rate
>>>
>>> Can your station survive if you charge 23p per spot?
>>>
>>> I just had a 2 minute look around the web at community radio rate cards and found a station (it shall remain nameless) which, even if they sold their whole inventory 24x7, would make less than £80 per day.
>>>
>>> The reality is more likely to be £20 per day income at that spot rate.
>>>
>>> As far as I can tell the station isn’t funded by a parent organisation, they don’t run a membership scheme and there’s little off air income either, so it’s difficult to see how they could manage their running costs.
>>>
>>> Personally I think this is nuts and also devalues the medium. Come on guys… know your worth.
>>>
>>> Kind Regards
>>> Alan
>>>
>>> Alan Coote
>>> Managing Director
>>> 5 Digital Limited
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> <http://www.avast.com/>
>>> This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com/> protection is active.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>>
>>> Reply - cma-l at commedia.org.uk <mailto:cma-l at commedia.org.uk>
>>>
>>> The cma-l mailing list is a members' service provided by the Community Media Association - http://www.commedia.org.uk <http://www.commedia.org.uk/>
>>> Twitter: http://twitter.com/community_media <http://twitter.com/community_media>
>>> http://www.facebook.com/CommunityMediaAssociation <http://www.facebook.com/CommunityMediaAssociation>
>>> Canstream Internet Radio & Video: http://www.canstream.co.uk/ <http://www.canstream.co.uk/>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>>
>>> Mailing list guidelines: http://www.commedia.org.uk/about/cma-email-lists/email-list-guidelines/ <http://www.commedia.org.uk/about/cma-email-lists/email-list-guidelines/>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>>
>>> To unsubscribe or manage your CMA-L mailing list subscription please visit:
>>> http://mailman.commedia.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/cma-l <http://mailman.commedia.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/cma-l>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>>
>>> Reply - cma-l at commedia.org.uk <mailto:cma-l at commedia.org.uk>
>>>
>>> The cma-l mailing list is a members' service provided by the Community Media Association - http://www.commedia.org.uk <http://www.commedia.org.uk/>
>>> Twitter: http://twitter.com/community_media <http://twitter.com/community_media>
>>> http://www.facebook.com/CommunityMediaAssociation <http://www.facebook.com/CommunityMediaAssociation>
>>> Canstream Internet Radio & Video: http://www.canstream.co.uk/ <http://www.canstream.co.uk/>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>>
>>> Mailing list guidelines: http://www.commedia.org.uk/about/cma-email-lists/email-list-guidelines/ <http://www.commedia.org.uk/about/cma-email-lists/email-list-guidelines/>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>>
>>> To unsubscribe or manage your CMA-L mailing list subscription please visit:
>>> http://mailman.commedia.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/cma-l <http://mailman.commedia.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/cma-l>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>> Reply - cma-l at commedia.org.uk <mailto:cma-l at commedia.org.uk>
>>
>> The cma-l mailing list is a members' service provided by the Community Media Association - http://www.commedia.org.uk <http://www.commedia.org.uk/>
>> Twitter: http://twitter.com/community_media <http://twitter.com/community_media>
>> http://www.facebook.com/CommunityMediaAssociation <http://www.facebook.com/CommunityMediaAssociation>
>> Canstream Internet Radio & Video: http://www.canstream.co.uk/ <http://www.canstream.co.uk/>
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>> Mailing list guidelines: http://www.commedia.org.uk/about/cma-email-lists/email-list-guidelines/ <http://www.commedia.org.uk/about/cma-email-lists/email-list-guidelines/>
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>> To unsubscribe or manage your CMA-L mailing list subscription please visit:
>> http://mailman.commedia.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/cma-l <http://mailman.commedia.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/cma-l>
>
> --
> Local Reports at http://www.ravensound.pilgrimsound.co.uk <http://www.ravensound.pilgrimsound.co.uk/>
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> Reply - cma-l at commedia.org.uk <mailto:cma-l at commedia.org.uk>
>
> The cma-l mailing list is a members' service provided by the Community Media Association - http://www.commedia.org.uk <http://www.commedia.org.uk/>
> Twitter: http://twitter.com/community_media <http://twitter.com/community_media>
> http://www.facebook.com/CommunityMediaAssociation <http://www.facebook.com/CommunityMediaAssociation>
> Canstream Internet Radio & Video: http://www.canstream.co.uk/ <http://www.canstream.co.uk/>
> _______________________________________________
>
> Mailing list guidelines: http://www.commedia.org.uk/about/cma-email-lists/email-list-guidelines/ <http://www.commedia.org.uk/about/cma-email-lists/email-list-guidelines/>
> _______________________________________________
>
> To unsubscribe or manage your CMA-L mailing list subscription please visit:
> http://mailman.commedia.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/cma-l <http://mailman.commedia.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/cma-l>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> Reply - cma-l at commedia.org.uk <mailto:cma-l at commedia.org.uk>
>
> The cma-l mailing list is a members' service provided by the Community Media Association - http://www.commedia.org.uk <http://www.commedia.org.uk/>
> Twitter: http://twitter.com/community_media <http://twitter.com/community_media>
> http://www.facebook.com/CommunityMediaAssociation <http://www.facebook.com/CommunityMediaAssociation>
> Canstream Internet Radio & Video: http://www.canstream.co.uk/ <http://www.canstream.co.uk/>
> _______________________________________________
>
> Mailing list guidelines: http://www.commedia.org.uk/about/cma-email-lists/email-list-guidelines/ <http://www.commedia.org.uk/about/cma-email-lists/email-list-guidelines/>
> _______________________________________________
>
> To unsubscribe or manage your CMA-L mailing list subscription please visit:
> http://mailman.commedia.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/cma-l <http://mailman.commedia.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/cma-l>
>
>
>
> --
>
> Tam Curry
>
> CamGlen Radio Coordinator
>
>
>
>
>
> Aspire Building, 16 Farmeloan Road, Rutherglen, G73 1DL
>
> Tel: 0141-646-0123
>
>
>
> www.healthynhappy.org.uk <http://www.healthynhappy.org.uk/>
> www.camglenradio.org <http://www.camglenradio.org/>
> www.facebook.com/HealthynHappyCommunityDevelopmentTRUST <http://www.facebook.com/HealthynHappyCommunityDevelopmentTRUST>
>
>
>
> Healthy n Happy Community Development Trust is a trading name of Healthy n Happy a Company Limited by Guarantee registered in Scotland (Register No SC227276) having its registered office at Aspire Building, 16 Farmeloan Road, Rutherglen, G73 1DL, is recognised as a Scottish Charity (Scottish Charity No SC032654)
>
> The information contained within this e-mail; and in any attachments is confidential and may be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, please destroy this message, delete any copies held on your systems and notify the sender immediately; you should not retain, or use this e-mail for any purpose, nor disclose all or any part of its content to another person.
>
> All messages through this gateway are checked for viruses, but we strongly recommend that you check messages using your own virus scanner, as the Community Development Trust will not take responsibility for any damage caused from viral infection.
>
>
>
>
>
> <http://www.avast.com/>
> This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com/> protection is active.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> Reply - cma-l at commedia.org.uk <mailto:cma-l at commedia.org.uk>
>
> The cma-l mailing list is a members' service provided by the Community Media Association - http://www.commedia.org.uk <http://www.commedia.org.uk/>
> Twitter: http://twitter.com/community_media <http://twitter.com/community_media>
> http://www.facebook.com/CommunityMediaAssociation <http://www.facebook.com/CommunityMediaAssociation>
> Canstream Internet Radio & Video: http://www.canstream.co.uk/ <http://www.canstream.co.uk/>
> _______________________________________________
>
> Mailing list guidelines: http://www.commedia.org.uk/about/cma-email-lists/email-list-guidelines/ <http://www.commedia.org.uk/about/cma-email-lists/email-list-guidelines/>
> _______________________________________________
>
> To unsubscribe or manage your CMA-L mailing list subscription please visit:
> http://mailman.commedia.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/cma-l <http://mailman.commedia.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/cma-l>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mailman.commedia.org.uk/pipermail/cma-l/attachments/20150204/e61be8c8/attachment.html>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: 240 x 240 copy.jpg
Type: image/jpeg
Size: 20547 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://mailman.commedia.org.uk/pipermail/cma-l/attachments/20150204/e61be8c8/attachment.jpg>
More information about the cma-l
mailing list