[cma-l] the DAB debate

James Cridland james at cridland.net
Tue Nov 18 08:31:15 GMT 2014 

All radio sales are down. DAB sales are down, FM sales are down. DAB sales
are down less than FM sales. But all radio sales are down.

Sales of other digital devices have increased. But they aren't "digital
listening devices", they're digital devices. Mostly they aren't used for
listening. Indeed, my research indicates that an *active* user of a radio
smartphone app uses it for about 30 minutes a week; yet an active listener
of radio listens in total to about 21 hours or so.

Reach is stable for all adults, and down by about 4% for the 15-24 age
group over the past ten years. Over the same ten year period, listening
hours are down 9% overall; and for 15-24s, radio listening hours are down
by 27%. So, one in four hours have disappeared from that age group. Yet,
total *audio* listening is up (at least over the last few years); and the
rate of decline in younger audience hours is slowing.

Most cars don't have DAB in them. The typical life of a car in the UK is 7
years on the road, so if we are only now seeing DAB installed in most of
the new cars, we'll still have to wait seven years before that filters down
to meaning "most cars have DAB in them". If you wanted something new -
DRM+, let's say - it takes around 3 years to get that designed and
installed, and a further seven years for it to achieve any kind of
penetration. So if, as the original post here suggests, DRM+ is used for
community radio, we're looking at a ten or fifteen year wait before it's in
cars. This is what I mean by understanding the market.

I talk a lot about the future of radio. I don't believe that
music-intensive radio ("ten great songs in a row") has a great future. On
whatever platform.

Hope that helps move the argument away from one little platform and
concentrate on the bigger picture.


On Tue, 18 Nov 2014 08:14 Roger Thorne <rj.thorne at btinternet.com> wrote:

> It's all in the way that figures are expressed: "anti-DAB"
>
>
>
> 1.7 million DAB radio sets sold, down year on year by 200,000 at end Q1
> 2014. Meanwhile sales of other digital listening devices (phones, tablets
> etc) has increased by up to 20%. So perhaps we should move to the internet....
>
>
>
> On the other hand, "pro-DAB"
>
>
>
> The % of people with a DAB radio is about to go over 50% and sales of
> analogue sets is down by 700,000 in the same period.
>
>
>
> Maybe the more important issue is that listening hours are down,
> especially in the younger age brackets. Whatever the medium, the product
> appears to be losing appeal.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* cma-l-bounces at mailman.commedia.org.uk [mailto:
> cma-l-bounces at mailman.commedia.org.uk] *On Behalf Of *office
> *Sent:* 17 November 2014 23:11
> *To:* cma-l at mailman.commedia.org.uk
> *Subject:* [cma-l] the DAB debate
>
>
>
> Gentlemen. (and ladies) I really don't want this to become a 'digital spy'
> kind of debate. That was really not my intention, but these figures are
> very confusing - I quote from an article of yours James:
>
> *Around 1.7 million digital radio sets were sold in the year to the end of
> June 2014, making up over a third (36.2%) of all radio sets sold. *
>
>
> Doesn't that mean over two thirds of Radio sets sold were Not DAB,
> therefore FM?  And, although a lot of new cars are coming out with DAB (and
> FM) radios, by far the vast majority of cars CURRENTLY on the road do NOT
> have DAB.  Considering the length of time DAB has been around, it doesn't
> look all that promising.
>
> But I must take you to task for suggesting that I (and people like me)
> 'seek to denigrate the whole platform'. This is just not true. I have been
> a fan - and have followed the progress of DAB for many years, just waiting
> for it to take off - but it hasn't - because, quite honestly it isn't very
> good, in many parts of the country.
>
> So, please let's not have a duel about this, we are on the same side. I
> would love to have a fabulous new-technology platform on which to
> broadcast, packed with listeners. Trouble is, for many of the reasons
> discussed here, we haven't, and it divides us. instead of uniting the
> enthusiastic, dedicated and talented people in Community and Commercial
> radio broadcasting.
>
> We should, I repeat, be making good radio, because we can - and promoting
> it as such to our audience, many of whom couldn't care less if it's DAB, FM
> or even AM!
>
> Phil Dawson
> FANTASY RADIO
> DEVZES
> Wiltshire.
>
>
> On 17/11/2014 21:45, cma-l-request at mailman.commedia.org.uk wrote:
>
> Send cma-l mailing list submissions to
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> than "Re: Contents of cma-l digest..."
>
>
>
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
>
>
>    1. Re:  The DAB debate (James Cridland)
>
>    2. Re:  The DAB debate (Associated Broadcast Consultants)
>
>
>
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
> Message: 1
>
> Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2014 19:53:43 +0000
>
> From: James Cridland <james at cridland.net> <james at cridland.net>
>
> To: The Community Media Association Discussion List
>
>   <cma-l at mailman.commedia.org.uk> <cma-l at mailman.commedia.org.uk>
>
> Subject: Re: [cma-l] The DAB debate
>
> Message-ID:
>
>   <CADxZ7USqx1qmKkwcPv=QK51P6bSc2R0amio9ibK2URtbiTbLvQ at mail.gmail.com> <CADxZ7USqx1qmKkwcPv=QK51P6bSc2R0amio9ibK2URtbiTbLvQ at mail.gmail.com>
>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
>
>
> Sorry for sounding like a bit of a broken record, but you say "whilst DAB
>
> may not be on a downward spiral" - thank you for admitting you were wrong -
>
> you also say "it certainly isn't really in the ascendancy."
>
>
>
> Hmm. Let's see. Year on year, it has more listeners, more listening hours,
>
> sales of DAB sets outperforming sales of radio receivers as a whole, now in
>
> 70% of new cars (according to some numbers I heard last week in an event),
>
> increased take up in much of Europe, two new UK national station launches
>
> in the space of three months, a second national multiplex on the way with
>
> multiple bidders... Certainly looks like it is in the ascendancy to me.
>
>
>
> Yes, it is wholly unsuitable for community radio right now. Utterly
>
> unsuitable, and cripplingly expensive: two things that DAB+ won't solve, by
>
> the way, and I don't even believe that the little muxes will properly solve
>
> that either.
>
>
>
> But what irks me somewhat is that you, and people like you, seek to
>
> denigrate an entire platform for everybody because it won't work for *you*.
>
> Either you want to be on DAB (presumably you do, otherwise you'd not
>
> rightly complain about the suitability and pricing), or you think DAB is
>
> entirely unsuitable for any radio broadcasting (and in which case,
>
> respectfully, you are wrong, as the figures show). Either way, you should
>
> pick your side.
>
>
>
> http://james.cridland.net
>
>
>
> On Mon, 17 Nov 2014 18:56 fantasy office <office at fantasyradio.co.uk> <office at fantasyradio.co.uk> wrote:
>
>
>
> Thank you James, for your response.
>
>
>
> And respect to you for plugging the name of our station twice in your
>
> reply! I didn't say that 6music was only available on DAB - I said it's
>
> not on FM...which is rather different.
>
> Whilst DAB may not be on a downward spiral, it certainly isn't really in
>
> the ascendancy.
>
> But the problem is - Money! DAB is very expensive to broadcast and the
>
> receivers have been too expensive for too long. And now with DAB+ those
>
> loyal DAB listeners are going to have to re-invest!
>
> DAB broadcasting is far too expensive...and even with the new Ofcom
>
> initiative, how many additional listeners would a community station be
>
> able to attract, over and above what they already have on FM?
>
>
>
> The DAB/FM debate has been going on for a long time. If DAB could show a
>
> clear advantage, in cost, in audio quality and in added listenership
>
> potential, there would be no contest. However, DAB, for community radio
>
> as well as for some commercial stations, can offer no such benefit.
>
>
>
> I'm glad though, you agree that DAB has been poorly marketed, and that
>
> we should all be getting behind RADIO for all the right reasons,
>
> whatever platforms remain.
>
>
>
> Sorry you can't get FM in your kitchen, James. Was it built within a
>
> Faraday Cage?
>
>
>
>
>
> Phil Dawson
>
> FANTASY RADIO
>
> Devizes,
>
> Wiltshire
>
>
>
>
>
> On 16/11/2014 22:04, cma-l-request at mailman.commedia.org.uk wrote:
>
> Send cma-l mailing list submissions to
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>       cma-l at mailman.commedia.org.uk
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> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
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> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
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> than "Re: Contents of cma-l digest..."
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>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
>
>
>     1. Re:  Superstation in Orkney ceases broadcasting
>
>        (shirleyludford at btinternet.co)
>
>     2.  New Field Recorder / Mic (terry mechan)
>
>     3. Re:  New Field Recorder / Mic (Associated Broadcast Consultants)
>
>     4. Re:  The DAB debate (James Cridland)
>
>
>
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
> Message: 1
>
> Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2014 21:08:58 +0000
>
> From: "shirleyludford at btinternet.co" <shirleyludford at btinternet.co> <shirleyludford at btinternet.com> <shirleyludford at btinternet.com>
>
> To: The Community Media Association Discussion List
>
>       <cma-l at mailman.commedia.org.uk> <cma-l at mailman.commedia.org.uk>,        "cma-l at commedia.org.uk" <cma-l at commedia.org.uk>
>
>       <cma-l at commedia.org.uk> <cma-l at commedia.org.uk>
>
> Subject: Re: [cma-l] Superstation in Orkney ceases broadcasting
>
> Message-ID:
>
>       <1416172138.46627.YahooMailNeo at web186003.mail.ir2.yahoo.com> <1416172138.46627.YahooMailNeo at web186003.mail.ir2.yahoo.com>
>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
>
>
> I am so sorry to read this.
>
>
>
> All our best wishes go to members of the Station from all at SWINDON
>
> 105.5
>
>
>
> ?
>
> ?Shirls
>
> ?
>
>
>
> ?Shirley Ludford
>
>
>
> Mob:?07951 366289
>
>
>
> High Sheriff's Award for Services to Community
>
>
>
> Pride Of Swindon Award
>
> Patron: Commonweal School?
>
> Patron: DPAG
>
>
>
> Station Manager. Trainer
>
> SWINDON 105.5
>
> www.swindon1055.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
>
>   From: James Cridland <james at cridland.net> <james at cridland.net>
>
> To: cma-l at commedia.org.uk
>
> Sent: Sunday, 16 November 2014, 16:26
>
> Subject: [cma-l] Superstation in Orkney ceases broadcasting
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Apparently, it fell off the air at midday today.
>
> http://media.info/radio/news/superstation-orkney-ends-
>
> community-radio-broadcasting
>
> J
>
> _______________________________________________
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> Reply - cma-l at commedia.org.uk
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> ------------------------------
>
>
>
> Message: 2
>
> Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2014 21:03:53 +0000
>
> From: terry mechan <terrymechan at live.co.uk> <terrymechan at live.co.uk>
>
> To: <cma-l at commedia.org.uk> <cma-l at commedia.org.uk>
>
> Subject: [cma-l] New Field Recorder / Mic
>
> Message-ID: <DUB130-DS21EC00380623AC03069FFC9A8A0 at phx.gbl> <DUB130-DS21EC00380623AC03069FFC9A8A0 at phx.gbl>
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>
>
> Am going to treat myself to an new WAV recorder for location work when
>
> doing my documentaries
>
>
>
> It will replace the Roland R-05 I have had for a few years.
>
>
>
> Ideally would like something with a waveform monitor to confirm levels
>
> when recording
>
>
>
> Any suggestions as to what works for you or your colleagues
>
>
>
> terry mechan
>
> www.terrymechan.com
>
>
>
>
>
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> ------------------------------
>
>
>
> Message: 3
>
> Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2014 21:54:10 +0000
>
> From: Associated Broadcast Consultants <info at a-bc.co.uk> <info at a-bc.co.uk>
>
> To: The Community Media Association Discussion List
>
>       <cma-l at mailman.commedia.org.uk> <cma-l at mailman.commedia.org.uk>
>
> Cc: cma-l <cma-l at commedia.org.uk> <cma-l at commedia.org.uk>
>
> Subject: Re: [cma-l] New Field Recorder / Mic
>
> Message-ID:
>
>       <CAG9-nrZ-EoAuW1kYv+QxydkMsfenCAkq51bz6jCZZDR6bwWR
>
> wg at mail.gmail.com>
>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
>
>
> The Zoom H4n is a nice bit of kit and has sound level metering.  I know
>
> it
>
> is good indoors for recording voiceovers, but not sure how good it is
>
> outdoors in noisy environments.
>
>
>
> Glyn
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>
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> Reply - cma-l at commedia.org.uk
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>
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> Message: 2
>
> Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2014 21:21:28 +0000
>
> From: Associated Broadcast Consultants <info at a-bc.co.uk> <info at a-bc.co.uk>
>
> To: The Community Media Association Discussion List
>
>   <cma-l at mailman.commedia.org.uk> <cma-l at mailman.commedia.org.uk>
>
> Subject: Re: [cma-l] The DAB debate
>
> Message-ID:
>
>   <CAG9-nrbDeE-hU-nniq0wd3bcZB63=v5gRYBYmo30KFAvGbQBXw at mail.gmail.com> <CAG9-nrbDeE-hU-nniq0wd3bcZB63=v5gRYBYmo30KFAvGbQBXw at mail.gmail.com>
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> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
>
>
> To be fair though James, DAB does not seem to have captured the imagination
>
> of listeners, judging by adoption.  Most modern radio technologies have an
>
> S-shaped adoption curve - that's to say a little slow at the beginning
>
> while the early-adopters buy it, but then quickly seeing an exponential
>
> growth as it becomes mainstream.  I may be wrong, but I don't think we've
>
> seen this with DAB in terms of adoption/penetration of receivers.   We can
>
> only hope that the slow adoption in not a sign of a deeper malaise with
>
> radio in general, regardless of delivery technology.
>
>
>
> Also what's this with the insidious re-naming from "Low cost DAB" to "small
>
> scale DAB"?  Even Ofcom have started using the term in their latest
>
> consultation!  In my opinion we need to focus more on the low cost, and
>
> leave the size/scale decision to whatever is best to deliver low cost.
>
>
>
> Glyn
>
>
>
>
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>
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