[cma-l] The DAB debate

Mon Nov 17 07:10:09 GMT 2014

I don't see how Content is related to Sustainability
I use radio to supply what I need in any given situation via the platform that's the most convenient and the easiest to use at the time.That's either one of three radios in the house (DAB in the bedroom only) or the one on the car.Just occasionally the TV.We have no other "devices" because we don't need them - apart from a simple old mobile phone each for emergency.I don't think we're too far away from most upper generation peoples' situation - the "grey unwatched"?I have no input as to how the newer lot want or need to consume "radio" content - I leave that to those who know.But there's one thing I'll point out as an engineer - a "spiral" doesn't go down or up - it stays in the same plane - sorry.
I think you're talking about a helix.
Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2014 22:54:59 +0000
From: ravensound at pilgrimsound.co.uk
To: cma-l at mailman.commedia.org.uk
Subject: Re: [cma-l] The DAB debate

    Content Is King - after all, people
      listened to Radio Luxembourg under pretty poor reception
      conditions in many parts of the UK.  This is one of the reasons
      DAB will probably fail as a competitive medium to FM, because
      apart from the Nationals there is no guarantee that stations will
      continue to operate in the future.  I think this has already
      become apparent with the removal of many of the original digital
      services.  The history of UK broadcasting has a common theme of
      sustainability issues in the early years, often due to reception
      problems with new transmission systems (and receivers).  DAB is
      worse in this respect, with a ten year history of issues.

      Tony Bailey

      On 16/11/14 21:42, James Cridland wrote:

    It's fantasy to claim DAB is on a downward spiral: all
      the evidence is against you there. (And also fantasy to claim that
      6Music is only available on DAB: it isn't. Its also on TV and
      online.)

      But I entirely agree about the marketing. http://media.info/radio/opinion/how-the-industry-should-be-promoting-digital-radio
      didn't make me many friends; but D-Love is almost offensively
      poor.

      And I entirely agree we should be promoting radio.

      J

      On Sun, 16 Nov 2014 21:16 fantasy office
        <office at fantasyradio.co.uk>
        wrote:

           Great piece of logic
            Ian, and Alex.

            The biggest problem I see for DAB is the poor marketing and
            confusing messages sent out to the potential audience.
            Starting with the Awful TV campaign for DAB with the far
            from believable character based on Barry White, which subtly
            became digital radio, where a girl was seen listening to
            'digital radio' on a laptop. Then the figures: usually
            quoted as 'digital radio listening' disguising the fact that
            DAB only forms part of the published figures.

            Also, it would be interesting to know how much DAB listening
            is to anything other than the BBC, or maybe Classic FM. In
            my own simple research, it would seem BBC 6music is popular
            on DAB, (er, because it's not on FM)

            DAB is on a downward spiral, whilst FM works perfectly for
            small scale stations, - and on line listening, which was
            unheard of when DAB was first mooted, is now extended to
            portable, hand held devices (phones, of course) 

            In this day and age, when radio broadcasting is up against
            so much competition from so many rather good devices and
            systems, we should clear the muddy water for our audience,
            tell the truth about DAB and concentrate, not on the merits
            and otherwise of systems and promote RADIO -
            the unique medium which still has so much to offer, whatever
            platform it's on.

            Phil Dawson

            FANTASY RADIO

            Devizes,

            Wiltshire.

            On 16/11/2014 15:17, cma-l-request at mailman.commedia.org.uk
              wrote:

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Today's Topics:

   1. Re:  Community & Local Radio - the Digital Issue (Two Lochs Radio)
   2.  FM or DAB? (Ian Hickling)
   3. Re:  Community & Local Radio - the Digital Issue
      (=?utf-8?B?dGxyQGdhaXJsb2NoLmNvLnVr?=)

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Message: 1
Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2014 13:59:39 -0000
From: "Two Lochs Radio" <tlr at gairloch.co.uk>
To: "The Community Media Association Discussion List"
	<cma-l at mailman.commedia.org.uk>
Subject: Re: [cma-l] Community & Local Radio - the Digital Issue
Message-ID: <3772617421AE4E9BA4900931722DE4F7 at wwpc04>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

Really James? If digital radio had been led by the market I doubt very much we would be talking about DAB at all (unless you regard the broadcasters rather than the listeners as the market!)

And if it had been technology-led, or even commonsense-led, DCMS would have mandated a rapid migration to DAB+ between 2008 and 2013, before even considering FM switch-offs, rather than letting Ofcom and the BBC plough on into the DAB dead-end.

I think also you have quite a different experience of DAB in an urban area with multiple multiplexes commercially viable. In the vast more remote and rual swatches of the UK, such as here in the north-west, the coverage footpriunt of the BBC's DAB transmitters is significantly less than their FM counterparts in many cases. Although DAB can take advantage of multipath reception, in practice this seems to be outweighed by the poorer overall propagation in Band III. Here in Gairloch, with a powerful main transmitter just a few miles away DAB in too weak to be received except in some favourable patches, not in the main population centres. 

On top of that, being DAB rather than DAB+, the BBC multiplex does not have the capacity to carry its own national channels (Radio Scotland and Radio nan Gaidheal), so it can never achieve FM equivalence on its own, and areas of low population such as this are not attractive to any commercial operators. 

The only answer on the horizon at the moment seems to be for the BBC to pay for carriage on local DAB multiplexes operated by the not-for profit micro-commercials/community stations that are spread across the region. Our local population would then be able to get the local station, and the BBC Scottish services, but not the UK-wide BBC digital services - maybe good for us, but not so good for listener choice!

Alex
Two Lochs Radio
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: James Cridland 
  To: The Community Media Association Discussion List ; cma-l 
  Sent: Sunday, November 16, 2014 9:46 AM
  Subject: Re: [cma-l] Community & Local Radio - the Digital Issue

  When reading this document, remember that the future of digital radio is led by the market, not just by the technology. To blindly recommend systems based on technology-only isn't credible.

  I don't disagree with his technological conclusions. However, there's a lot of market conditions that he's ignored, which makes this paper worthless.

  Its an interesting read, though. Thanks for sharing it.

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Message: 2
Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2014 13:02:25 +0000
From: Ian Hickling <transplanfm at hotmail.com>
To: cma-l <cma-l at commedia.org.uk>
Subject: [cma-l] FM or DAB?
Message-ID: <DUB125-W7864C697733E46CF98F292AD8A0 at phx.gbl>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

Apologies - for "Ku band" please read "L band".
From: transplanfm at hotmail.com
To: cma-l at commedia.org.uk
Subject: FM or DAB?
Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2014 08:31:10 +0000

One of our overseas correspondents here has drawn my attention to the situation in Denmark:http://digitalradioinsider.blogspot.co.uk/I outlined my view to him as follows:Most of our work is in facilitating small-scale FM stations - but that's not why I appear to be so carping about DAB. Firstly the Media and to a great extent the Industry seem to use the term "DAB" to mean all possible formats of DTR - Digital Terrestrial Broadcasting - whereas it's just one - and an arcane and inflexible one at that.Also there seems to be a headlong lemming-like rush to "something digital" when Band II VHF/FM is perfectly workable and acceptable for most domestic broadcasting and is in world-wide use.Band III and Ku band digital broadcasting is effectively not far beyond the trial stage as there is no world-wide agreement either with broadcasters or manufacturers.The UK and certain other countrie
 s chose 
t

 o put i
n place the first commercially-possible system and have found that it isn't futur
 e-proof.I love the idea of what digital broadcast radio can do - but pushing it in the DAB format alone as the killer of FM is unworkable and idiotic.
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Message: 3
Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2014 15:02:45 +0000
From: "=?utf-8?B?dGxyQGdhaXJsb2NoLmNvLnVr?=" <tlr at gairloch.co.uk>
To:
	"=?utf-8?B?VGhlIENvbW11bml0eSBNZWRpYSBBc3NvY2lhdGlvbiBEaXNjdXNzaW9uIExpc3Q=?="	
	<cma-l at mailman.commedia.org.uk>
Subject: Re: [cma-l] Community & Local Radio - the Digital Issue
Message-ID: <0MTxib-1XPvvT4BHt-00Qml5 at mrelayeu.kundenserver.de>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

And apologies for "swatches"; please read "swathes"!

Alex

----- Reply message -----
From: "Two Lochs Radio" <tlr at gairloch.co.uk>
To: "The Community Media Association Discussion List" <cma-l at mailman.commedia.org.uk>
Subject: [cma-l] Community &amp; Local Radio - the Digital Issue
Date: Sun, Nov 16, 2014 13:59

Really James? If digital radio had been led by 
the market I doubt very much we would be talking about DAB at all (unless you 
regard the broadcasters rather than the listeners as the market!)

And if it had been technology-led, or even 
commonsense-led, DCMS would have mandated a rapid migration to DAB+ between 
2008 and 2013, before even considering FM switch-offs, rather than 
letting Ofcom and the BBC plough on into the DAB dead-end.

I think also you have quite a different 
experience of DAB in an urban area with multiple multiplexes commercially 
viable. In the vast more remote and rual swatches of the UK, such as here in the 
north-west, the coverage footpriunt of the BBC's DAB transmitters is 
significantly less than their FM counterparts in many cases. Although DAB can 
take advantage of multipath reception, in practice this seems to be outweighed 
by the poorer overall propagation in Band III. Here in Gairloch, with a powerful 
main transmitter just a few miles away DAB in too weak to be received except in 
some favourable patches, not in the main population centres. 

On top of that, being DAB rather than DAB+, the 
BBC multiplex does not have the capacity to carry its own national channels 
(Radio Scotland and Radio nan Gaidheal), so it can never achieve FM equivalence 
on its own, and areas of low population such as this are not attractive to any 
commercial operators. 

The only answer on the horizon at the moment 
seems to be for the BBC to pay for carriage on local DAB multiplexes operated by 
the not-for profit micro-commercials/community stations that are spread across 
the region. Our local population would then be able to get the local station, 
and the BBC Scottish services, but not the UK-wide BBC digital services - maybe 
good for us, but not so good for listener choice!

Alex
Two Lochs Radio

----- Original Message ----- 
From: 
James 
Cridland 
To: The Community Media Association 
Discussion List ; cma-l 
Sent: Sunday, November 16, 2014 9:46 
AM
Subject: Re: [cma-l] Community & 
Local Radio - the Digital Issue

When reading this document, remember that the future of digital 
radio is led by the market, not just by the technology. To blindly recommend 
systems based on technology-only isn't credible.
I don't disagree with his technological conclusions. However, 
there's a lot of market conditions that he's ignored, which makes this paper 
worthless.
Its an interesting read, though. Thanks for sharing it.

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