[cma-l] DCMS consultation meetings on amendments to communityradio law

Tue Oct 18 14:17:46 BST 2011

Nick
I'm going to do this in public, because we're all fed up with your moaning.
No - actually - we do appreciate what you're saying.
Let's get some facts into this.

Firstly - about Key 103 - if it is that causing the problem.
That's on 103,0 at 347 metres AOD and an antenna elevation of 40m with an aggregate 4kW on Saddleworth Moor and you're on 102,8 with 25W at 153m AOD and 34m antenna elevation and an aggregate 48W at Bolligton - 27km due south with a complete geological signal block anywhere to the east of you.
103,0 is second adjacent to you, which providing you're both within specification, means no part of your transmission envelopes overlap more than at -60dB.
That is one millionth of full power level.

So - any cross-talk you're getting can only be attributed - forgive me for being blunt - to the use of crap radio receivers.
I'm sure you wouldn't want legislation introduced  to allow for that?
No fault of the rules, the broadcasters or of Ofcom.
There is a possible solution of moving your frequency either one channel further away from Key 103 or somewhere entirely different - but that's a much bigger exercise as I'm sure you'll understand.

Secondly - the so-called "crackle crackle hiss hiss crackle" is not being generated by you or by them.
It's your radio picking up other random signals which are of a level higher than the wanted one.
This may be because of low signal strength - or again the radio itself - or more likely its aerial aystem.
Again, not the fault of the rules, the broadcasters or of Ofcom.

Thirdly - your idea of upping power by 1W at a time. Beside it being completely outside any concept of engineering planning logic, it would do no good at all. Power (allied with propagation format) gets you penetration; height gets you range. So - to increase coverage area you'll need to provide your antenna with a better view of its target. Therefore more height - or an entirely new location. That's always assuming that you are actually emitting your full ERP, which in itself may be part of the problem.

Look - buy me a decent lunch and I'll spend a day with you looking at the problem and I'll do you a Spectrum Audit Scan which will show just how near or effective other broadcasters are. And I'll analyse your problem crackle/hiss areas too.
Then we might be able to come up with a good practical sound engineering solution.

------------------------------------
Ian Hickling
Partner
transplan UK

From: office at ccr-fm.co.uk
To: alan.coote at btinternet.com; cma-l at commedia.org.uk
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2011 21:46:21 +0100
Subject: Re: [cma-l] DCMS consultation meetings on amendments to communityradio law

Dear All

Where is the Bay ?                       hells bells !   if it is in the North West and on the highest building on the highest hill with 100 watts power we’re gonna’ get swamped ! Canalside is also on 102.8fm           J

The issue for me is the defence against Commercial Radio and not Community. My idea has always been that we have enough power for what we NEED and not what we want for a bit of luxury.

We have got a radio station in this area ……….. we believe it to be Key 103 who come over us and crackle crackle hiss hiss crackle us at various spots in Macclesfield ………. Regardless what the DCMS say or what Ofcom say (and they can argue til the Cows come home)     Macclesfield is OUR Community, not Key 103’s or an imaginary 5km line drawn on a map.

I have always said the way to do it is quite simple ………… not hard ….. but simple. One doesn’t have to have a degree in mini screwdrivers and aerials. You place one Herbert at the spot marked   ‘X’     and you place another Herbert at the transmitter. The Herbert at the transmitter is all the while on a mobile phone to another technical Herbert at Ofcom. All three of us then tweak the power up by 1 watt at a time ……………. When we reach the point whereby Mr Crackle and Mrs Hiss have left the building then we make one more phone call to another Herbert at the Community Station near to us (for us it is Chorley) and see if it has affected their output.
There is a chance that it may have done slightly, so, they tweak theirs up by the same amount. 
The ironical thing about all of this is we may have gone from 25 watts to 32 watts ??  !!      that may be all it takes.

At least at the point where    us & them start havin’ a scrap on the airwaves will not have shifted, but both of us at least won’t have the Commercial Herberts coming over the top of us from TWO Digits away.

This could all be done in two days …………. Job done, shut up, goodnight Vienna ----- get on with what we are supposed to be doing which is providing good community radio for OUR Community ………….. unfortunately, all those people in OUR Community in the hotspots of Macclesfield can’t listen to us so they listen to the BBC or the Commercials because they have had something taken away from them !                 it’s called DEMOCRATIC CHOICE !

So, to conclude, the very foundations that Community Radio was built on which are Fairness, Equality, Opportunity, Accessibility, Choice and Democracy, if you throw into the mix the other restrictions, the whole thing basically went tits-up for us in 2008 as we started full-time, it remained tits-up for three years, and it’s still tits-up now.

Everyone can see it, everyone knows it and yet the powers that be refuse to listen.

Consultations are a waste of time if those in the meeting don’t want to listen. How many times do we have to keep regurgitating the same old arguments and points.

And so it goes on, and so do we, and so do I ……………… on & on & on & on & on                  this will continue to be the case until all this nonsense is brought to an end, not forgetting trying to find ways around, up and over which is now in our manifesto.

Regards

Nick 

From: cma-l-bounces at mailman.commedia.org.uk [mailto:cma-l-bounces at mailman.commedia.org.uk] On Behalf Of Alan Coote
Sent: 17 October 2011 18:17
To: ian at transplan.uk.com; 'cma-l'
Subject: Re: [cma-l] DCMS consultation meetings on amendments to communityradio law

Hi Ian, Jaqui et al,

Here’s my evidence that Ofcom are not willing to help CR stations cover their intended area. 

It clearly state a ‘general policy’ with respect to output power and multi frequency. 

The response below was received following the submission of an Arqiva researched report into covering our existing designated area. Needless to say we were not impressed, given that the technical report was comprehensive and evidenced. 

FYI The Bay 102.8 TX is located on the highest building (30m AGL) on the highest hill (62m ASL) in the centre of our area – there is no better site! 

Yet - Read for yourself…

“Dear Alan,

I am writing with regard to your request of 11 November, acknowledged on 17 November. [2010 – this shows how long we had this issue]  

The contents of your report are noted.  You asked us to consider increasing your transmitter power to 100 Watts e.r.p., and for an additional frequency for a “fill-in” transmitter.  These requests have now been considered and I am sorry, but we are not able to agree to either of them.  

The usual maximum effective radiated power (e.r.p.) for community radio services is 25 Watts in the vertical plane with an additional 25 Watts in the horizontal plane, if required.  Your request for a power increase to 100 Watts e.r.p. is outside this general policy, and for that reason we are not able to agree to it.

With regard to a second frequency, as stated below, our general policy with regards to FM frequencies for community radio services is that we will allocate one frequency per service, and we are therefore not able to agree to your request for an additional frequency for your service.  

Regards,

:: Soo Williams
Manager, Community Radio and RSLs
Direct line: 020 7783 4319
susan.williams at ofcom.org.uk

:: Ofcom
Riverside House
2a Southwark Bridge Road
London SE1 9HA
020 7981 3000
www.ofcom.org.uk
“ 

From: cma-l-bounces at mailman.commedia.org.uk [mailto:cma-l-bounces at mailman.commedia.org.uk] On Behalf Of Ian Hickling
Sent: 15 October 2011 10:22 AM
To: cma-l
Subject: [cma-l] DCMS consultation meetings on amendments to community radio law

Sorry - the "restriction" is not abritrary.
Unless you can of course show me where it is enshrined in Law, conveyed by Ofcom in writing, or expressed as such by Ofcom to any Applicant or Licensee.
I've never seen any of these instances, but I'm happy to be corrected.

In technical terms of course, you can't stop radio signals from travelling more than any specified distance.
The way is could be expressed - but isn't - is by saying that there must be no signal at a specific strength receivable under specific conditions at any point further than 5km from the transmitter.
Again, I have never seen this stipulated by Ofcom nor by the Radio Authority in 15 years as a general restriction - only in very specific cases where a licensee is required to protect the MCA of an existing broadcaster.

Please - let's deal in hard facts - not in conjecture or hearsay.
------------------------------------
Ian Hickling
Partner
transplan UK

From: cma-l at commedia.org.uk
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2011 17:35:27 +0100
To: cma-l at commedia.org.uk
Subject: Re: [cma-l] DCMS consultation meetings on amendments to community radio law

---------- Forwarded message ----------

From: Gary Jackson <gary.jackson at skylinegold.co.uk>
To: CMA-L <cma-l at commedia.org.uk>
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2011 16:17:23 +0100

On 14/10/2011 15:34, Alan Coote wrote: 

Hi Ian et al, 

In simple terms, Ofcom says "Tell us the Community you wish to cover - and how you propose doing it.
If you look on Ofcom's published "TX Params", you'll see the stations that have asked for and got much higher powers and sites. 
My direct experience is that this simply not true! 

Ofcom hide behind what they have called a ‘Policy’ to  limit CR to 25 Watts ERP. The restriction is real and affects many stations outside of remote parts of Wales and Scotland. There are 21 stations which have great than 25W ERP. 

For the rest of us, the 5km limit is arbitrary and a nonsense. It should be removed.
++

Our experience is the same as Alan's. We had two people living well within the 5km radius. Both wrote to support our application to Ofcom to increase our signal because neither could receive us.

Our application was turned down flat

Gary

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