[cma-l] Community Radio Royalties
Richard Berry
richard.berry at sunderland.ac.uk
Wed Oct 27 12:27:09 BST 2010
wow. There's a lot to take in here.
I agree that the system of music royalties in the UK is a mess. The
position in the US is different, it assumes that if a record in played
on the radio people will buy it. The perception here in the UK is
contrary, it assumes if radio plays a song we won't buy it. It's not
helped by the fact that they've still not sorted out how much we - as
a sector - should be paying. Clearly, it can't be free but equally
sharing a ratecard with commercial radio is patently wrong.
Record companies will supply community radio, they supply us very well
and we rarely buy any music. The additional tracks we add, we've
bought ourselves and ripped into the playout system. Of course, what
record companies want are playlists and since that something that
isn't always in our culture then it's not in their interests to send
out anything. Of course, if you play local unsigned acts then this is
less of an issue - take a look at what Amazing Radio are doing and
you'll see
Rich
Richard Berry
Senior Lecturer in Radio Studies
Admissions Tutor
Programme Leader: FdA Community Radio & BA Radio
The David Puttnam Media Centre, St Peters Campus
Sunderland, SR6 0DD
Tel: 0191 515 2239
www.twitter.com/sunderlandradio
Web: www.sunderland.ac.uk/radio
Tags: www.delicious.com/richardberry
Blog:myblogs.sunderland.ac.uk/blogs/radio/
On 27 Oct 2010, at 11:15, Office - ccr-fm wrote:
> Guess what guys (nongy-nong Nick has got a comment to make on this
> … (surprise surprise?) Looking at things simply
> and in laymans terms …. If we applied this rule to our lives,
> things would be better for all concerned ….. even the authorities.
>
> Not fully understanding this system??? but rather looking at it as
> yet another bureaucratic nonsense and nightmare, I would like to
> make some observations.
>
> Correct me if I am wrong, but if I go into a shop and I buy a Robbie
> Williams song or Katy Perry’s new single ……. Do those artists
> receive any money from that sale ?? I would argue that they
> do ! how much they get after the agents, the
> record company, the advertisers, the sharks, leeches and waterbugs
> have all had a nibble is possibly anyones guess ?? but ………..
> that is certainly none of my business and quite frankly I couldn’t
> give a monkeys cuss ! I’ll leave them to squabble amongst
> themselves.
>
> We are a NOT-FOR-PROFIT venture, and we can prove it
> ……………….. so ……….. the moral of the story is that we
> ARE NOT making bucks out of someone elses talent or hard work …..
> we are by the very nature of what we do ‘Radio’ helping these
> guys raise their profile and thus promote their music sales.
>
> Someone may say …….. well what about a pub or a bar and their PRS
> etc ?? I reply …………….. ‘’yes, but
> there is a huge difference between about 70 people in a pub and the
> potential audience that we broadcast to ! as I said
> recently to the gentleman at PRS / PPL ……….. who is doing who
> the favour ?? I said to him, that HE SHOULD BE PAYING
> ME ! AND NOT THE OTHER WAY ROUND ! it is yet
> another legal debacle that gets right up my nose.
> In fact, some people who stick a song on a jukebox do so because
> they heard it on CCR ?!
>
> As in this e-mail ping pong some of our fraturnity/brotherhood state
> that they use a lot of speech and a lot of music that ain’t PRS
> associated ……………… WE PAY for most of our music
> ……………….. perhaps the PRS could have a word with sony and
> the likes to start sending ALL their music to us so at least we can
> save some money aside to pay them.
>
> My view is that I’m paying bloody Robbie Williams (3) (THREE)
> times !
>
> 1) CCR buys the single = (Robbie receives money)
> 2) CCR promotes the single = (Robbie receives profile which =
> more money)
> 3) CCR then has to pay dues to the PRS even though we’ve
> promoted it and help sell it ! = (loads o’ money, cheers easy, in
> the back pocket we go !)
> Mr Williams has a look at us on the website and sez’ to
> himself ‘’what mugs’’ they buy my record,
> they promote me and I get a nice little tickle as well from royalties
>
> WHAT A BLEEDIN’ JOKE !……………… this runs along side the
> fact that we’ve got a community fund that is neither use nor
> ornament, rules that have been brought in by Government morons who
> have got no idea or bearing as to what is going on around them,
> ……….. ie:- absolutely no advertising, absolutely no undue
> prominence ! there’s another balls-up by the way
> ………………… Fred Bloggs the window cleaner gives us a
> donation of a £1000, where as Annie Goggins the Candlestick maker
> gives a much smaller donation of £100 …. But we darn’t say thank
> you more times to Fred than Annie because of undue prominence ??
> this is NOT undue prominence, it is DUE PROMINENCE
>
> Anyway …………… I’m going off piste again
> ………………………. The point I am making again is this
> ---------------------
>
> We are having the peeeee taken out of us ‘big style’ ……….
> We are being laughed at and insulted, we are being bullied and all
> the whinging has to stop. Get your bloody sleeves rolled up and
> let’s have a go as a group ….
>
> I STILL believe there will be a sympathetic judge somewhere who will
> sway into our camp ………… I have gone through the trading laws
> with a fine tooth comb …. Trust me, there are a hell of a lot of
> loop-holes …………… CCR cannot do it alone.
>
> With reference to the PRS ……………….. I suggest we tell them
> to stick that as well and either put a bill into them or at least
> come to contra deal. If they want me to pay them then they can
> firstly send me the music free of charge or I’ll buy the music and
> there is no charge for playing it …………………………..
> it’s the old same old same old ……… the goalposts are being
> shunted around to suit …….. and all the favours drop on their
> side of the court
> Why ? because we’re all a load of mugs, that’s why
> ……….
>
> Finally, so that people understand where I’m coming from ……. A
> Commercial Radio Station / a Night Club / a Pub / a Cruise Ship
> …………. They are all MONEY MAKING RACKETS AND PROFIT MAKING
> VENTURES ……. Possibly they should
> pay ?! WE ARE NOT ! AND WE ARE
> DIFFERENT !
>
> Oh …….. and absolutely finally ………… Commercial Radio gets
> all its music for free from the record companies ….. they class us
> as to small, so we don’t get any.Perhaps the CMA could put them
> right on that one as well, and get the sony’s etc to send it to
> them, for them to send it to us ………….. I think a little word
> in Mr Sony’s ear ‘’ 217 Community Stations in the
> Country’’ I actually don’t think we are small at
> all ??! we will then have the spare money to pay Mr
> PRS.
>
> ‘’Simples eeeek’’ said the
> meerkat compair the market <> we’re
> getting a raw deal at the moment !
>
> Nick
>
> From: cma-l-bounces at mailman.commedia.org.uk [mailto:cma-l-bounces at mailman.commedia.org.uk
> ] On Behalf Of Ian Hickling
> Sent: 27 October 2010 08:42
> To: Peter Vautier; Trevor Lockwood
> Cc: cma-l
> Subject: [cma-l] Community Radio Royalties
>
>
> I'm in a cleft stick here.
> I believe that people who make music should be properly rewarded for
> their art - but at the same time the present system appears to be
> illogical, secretive and unfair.
> Has any broadcaster ever told the societies that they're not paying
> their exhorbitant arbitrary and unexplained fees and to go ahead and
> sue?
> Bill will know that only last week he managed to ensure that a new
> broadcaster was only charged pro-rata for two months' royalties when
> the organisation concerned had insisted - would you beleive - on a
> full 12-month fee for two months' activity.
> Peter raises the point about using music from other countries and
> how Royalties are and should be paid.
> As I understand it - and I may be quite wrong - there are parallel
> agreements throughout the world with other royalty collection
> agencies.
> We provide facilities for stations serving Asian communities and
> they never ever pay PRS, MCPS and PPL as far as I can see.
> If English-language stations in the UK are required to pay, then why
> are these equally-licensed broadcasters apparently exempted because
> their music orignated in another country?
> Why doesn't Ofcom collect these royalties - if indeed they are fully
> authenticated in Law - at the same time as the Licence Fees?
>
> Ian Hickling
> Partner
> transplan UK
>
> From: admin at londonhuayu.co.uk
> Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2010 17:16:28 +0100
> To: trevor at felixstoweradio.co.uk
> CC: cma-l at commedia.org.uk
> Subject: Re: [cma-l] PRS Community Radio Licence Application and FAQ
> - your feedback required
>
> I'd second that - a very large proportion of our music is from
> Mainland China, which isn't under the PRS/PPL license.
> It would also be good if these artists actually got paid royalties
> for their work, since it is so hard to make money from music in
> China, and since the record companies over there have been so
> supportive by giving us interviews, etc.
>
> Peter Vautier
> London Chinese Radio
>
>
>
> On Tue, Oct 26, 2010 at 11:56 AM, <trevor at felixstoweradio.co.uk>
> wrote:
> Bill
>
> I was not aware of any stated policy about the CMA and PRS
> relationship.
>
> In the past I've wondered whether CMA is now large enough to
> consider creating its own version of PRS, working with that
> organisation, but achieving economies of scale by having one
> application/funding stream.
>
> My real concern with the present system is that at Felixstowe Radio
> we have a large speech content, and we also play many tracks from
> artists that are not yet registered with PRS. Our output is not
> specifically recorded by PPL - so we pay them more than we should,
> and our artists don't get to sniff the barmaid's apron.
>
> Is it true that the PRS boss earns £600K?
>
> Trevor
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Bill Best
> Sent: 26/10/10 10:38 AM
> To: cma-l at commedia.org.uk
> Subject: [cma-l] PRS Community Radio Licence Application and FAQ -
> your feedback required
>
> Hi Jaqui's not available today to address the issues that some of
> you have recently brought up on the list as she's attending a
> meeting at DCMS to represent the sector to the Digital Radio
> Marketing Group. Yesterday Jaqui was at the "Community Radio and
> Digitally Networked Business" workshop in Port Talbot and met a
> number of CMA members there. On 15 October Jaqui and I attended a
> meeting at PRS for Music to discuss issues around music licensing
> for the sector - in particular about MCPS rates which have hitherto
> not yet been charged. PRS will feedback to the CMA about MCPS rates
> when the relevant PRS board documentation is completed later this
> week. I'm delighted to say that talks with PRS were productive and
> the CMA has re-established a positive working dialogue with PRS. In
> the meantime PRS are currently reviewing their Community Radio
> documentation in advance of refreshing it with the new licence
> information and updated PRS rates. Are there any frequently asked
> questions or items that station managers are particularly interested
> in that require attention or further explanation? The PRS Community
> Radio Licence Application and FAQ is here: http://bit.ly/dwnsAF
> Please get back to me with any feedback. Regards Bill --
> Community Media Association http://www.commedia.org.uk/ http://twitter.com/community_media
> Facebook Fans: http://bit.ly/cog8n5
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