[cma-l] Offensive Lyrics - I offended - 99 problems but Julie isn't one
LOL GELLOR
lolgellor at yahoo.co.uk
Mon Aug 17 14:07:15 BST 2009
Good healthy response Julie - not that you need my approval - and a warm welcome to the ever expanding happy, if ever so slightly dysfunctional, family of community radio practitioners (or is that perpetrators) - where there will always be a future while the passion runs high, the debate is lively and there is a readiness to indulge in dubious humour.
all the very best
Lol
--- On Mon, 17/8/09, Julie at radiowestsuffolk.co.uk <Julie at radiowestsuffolk.co.uk> wrote:
From: Julie at radiowestsuffolk.co.uk <Julie at radiowestsuffolk.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [cma-l] Offensive Lyrics - I offended
To: hartland.karl at 209radio.co.uk
Cc: "LOL GELLOR" <lolgellor at yahoo.co.uk>, cma-l at commedia.org.uk
Date: Monday, 17 August, 2009, 12:06 PM
I do understand that different areas and listeners will require different programme content etc etc.
However, I just love the way we can all debate this and give and get all sorts of opinions and ideas, great back up when you are unsure of something, as a "newby" to community radio I look forward to working with everyone over the coming months and years.
Julie
Julie MacLeod
Station Manager
Listen to me every Friday night at 8pm for the Request Show or every other
Wednesday at 6pm for "What's Going On". www.radiowestsuffolk.co.uk
RWSfm is coming to Bury Soon!
Quoting Karl Hartland <hartland.karl at 209radio.co.uk>:
> I'm most shocked that this matter isn't a constant background issue; it
> would be a good sign of health of our shared editorial journey if it
> were.
>
> Context and respect are the watchwords and a station's own ability to
> separate 'fruity' language from offensive hate is like a muscle; you
> have to use it every day.
>
> Aside from the letter of the Broadcast Code, in its interpretation you
> obviously cannot risk a community's faith in your service in allowing
> content which gives not much more than thrill to a DJ/producer who
> recognises not fully the spheres within which they are operating...but
> actually offends many others by its meaning.
>
> And by that content I mean only words, phrases and lyrics which mean to
> harm individuals and groups.
>
> Which is why you ALWAYS have to drill down into the meaning and intent
> behind the words used and never jerk thine knee.
>
> I remember very clearly the mass workshop given to the first wave of
> CRO applicants by Ofcom at Southwark; it gave me an early respect for
> their interpretation of the rules and principles of the code and that
> has been born out in practice too, in our experience- Ofcom themselves
> gave me the confidence to NOT turn to 'bookburning' as a means of risk
> management.
>
> *SMs & support staff*- find out why they want to play that before you
> say no or go ballistic after the event, write yourself a style book on
> top of the Code in consultation with all active programme makers, train
> them 'til they're sick of hearing it and never be afraid to invoke the
> disciplinary procedures when you have good evidence to /have /to use
> them (have you got a policy?)
> *Teams*- ask yourself why you want to play it, give adequate warning to
> your listener, arm yourself with water-tight reasons as to why.
> *Schedulers*- schedule it properly.
>
> How much 'adult content' is on 209radio? A fair bit actually but it's
> properly scheduled and carefully chosen for context.
> How broad is our audience? VERY.
> How many complaints lodged with Ofcom against 209radio since 2007? 3
> How many upheld? None.
> How many to do with an adult content choice/context by a team/producer? None.
>
> The Code is there to protect young people, not the sensibilities of
> hand-wringers. </flinches and ducks>
>
> Dialogue...adding to the plurality...all that Lol said...
>
> *"The children were startled!" (c) The Now Show.*
>
> K
>
> LOL GELLOR wrote:
>> For what it's worth - a plea to the better part of humanity and intellect - I'm irritated rather than offended - which is what you may be.
>>
>> Did I spend all that time and money for all those years lobbying, running, encouraging (& still assisting others) to do community radio so that the excluded could remain excluded. Censoring culture, language, art, faith, differing views, differing perspectives, human rights, notions of free speech, democracy, LANGUAGE that does not tally with ones own view or sensibility is best left to others please (mainstream media, BBC etc.). Though I guess the offensive moral high ground that seems to be innocently but arrogantly on offer in some of these contributions to the list would also be something I would ultimately have to defend. I seem to recall disagreeing with about eighty per cent of station output in my own case.
>>
>> Gosh don't we always know what's best for everyone else. But are you prepared to accept that your position may have more to with your own limitations rather than the limitations of others. Not easy is it!
>>
>> The greatest gift community radio has given me amongst all the blood,sweat and tears is the opportunity to have my own view of the world challenged so that I might just have a fuller comprehension of what the reality of others lives might involve. This is the tremendous opportunity community radio/media presents. By all means create content that is imbued with a particular sensibility but don't automatically exclude anything that authentically challenges it. Perhaps you might more intelligently approach the issue with an open world interrogation rather than simplistic judgement, who knows you may be better informed for the experience. There's no requirement that you change your language, become a hip hop artist or even attempt street dance. (I tried it but put my back out). Whilst you may feel you are invoking an almost Reithian sense of the past - you might just consider Community radio as one of the few opportunities to
offer a genuine window on the world - a three dimensional view not mediated by the inherited, rather tired somewhat two dimensional view offered by the mainstream media platforms.
>>
>> Please don't miss what much of the journey is about - you will be missing a great opportunity - and for XXXX's sake lighten up a bit.
>>
>> all the very best
>> Lolx
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --- On *Sun, 16/8/09, Julie at radiowestsuffolk.co.uk /<Julie at radiowestsuffolk.co.uk>/* wrote:
>>
>>
>> From: Julie at radiowestsuffolk.co.uk <Julie at radiowestsuffolk.co.uk>
>> Subject: Re: [cma-l] Offensive Lyrics
>> To: "Ian Hickling" <transplanfm at hotmail.com>
>> Cc: "cma-l" <cma-l at commedia.org.uk>, paradigm.productions at ntlworld.com
>> Date: Sunday, 16 August, 2009, 6:14 PM
>>
>> Gentlemen please!
>>
>> Having come from a "working" class East End family, father a
>> builder, so I know all the expletives under the sun, rubbish school etc. However, whilst I could turn the "air blue" as good as any, I know when it is and isn't appropriate. I find songs with swearing in offensive and I would hope that so would my presenters, regardless
>> of age, class etc.
>>
>> Surely, if you can't sing a song without effing and blinding in it, don't sing a song.
>>
>>
>> Julie MacLeod
>> Station Manager - My father called me Margo because he thought I
>> was posh!
>>
>> Listen to me every Friday night at 8pm for the Request Show or
>> every other
>> Wednesday at 6pm for "What's Going On". www.radiowestsuffolk.co.uk
>> RWSfm is coming to Bury Soon!
>>
>>
>> Quoting Ian Hickling <transplanfm at hotmail.com
>> </mc/compose?to=transplanfm at hotmail.com>>:
>>
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Well that's where we'll have to disagree Mark.
>> >
>> > It seems fashionable to denegrate the idea of having standards -
>> and > look where it's got us.
>> >
>> > If you like to align the concept of right and wrong to "so called > respectable, white, middle class, daily mail readers" then so be
>> it > - but I'd remind you that the people we've democratically
>> elected to > represent and govern us fall loosely into that general catergory.
>> >
>> > Of course the use of expletives is everyday conversation is > widespread and generally tolerated - but I suggest that the lower > down the social, financial and responsibility scale you look, the > greater is the usage.
>> >
>> > Do we need to set a tolerance level across all frontiers and > universally enforce it?
>> > No, of course not.
>> >
>> > But I do profoundly object to offensiveness for offensiveness'
>> sake, > and offence is what obscene lyrics in songs appear solely to seek.
>> >
>> > If we're going to say that music should reflect the language
>> used by > a section of the community, then why restrict it to that?
>> Shouldn't > we to be consistent then encourage the use of that medium to > advocate drugs, violence, child abuse, teenage pregnancy and all
>> the > other characteristics of modern society?
>> >
>> > I don't think that most of us would like that.
>> >
>> > And, by the way, I don't recall ever having knowingly read the
>> Daily > Mail in the whole of my life.
>> >
>> > Ian
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > CC: cma-l at commedia.org.uk </mc/compose?to=cma-l at commedia.org.uk>
>> > From: paradigm.productions at ntlworld.com
>> </mc/compose?to=paradigm.productions at ntlworld.com>
>> > To: transplanfm at hotmail.com </mc/compose?to=transplanfm at hotmail.com>
>> > Subject: Re: [cma-l] Offensive lyrics
>> > Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 11:56:19 +0100
>> >
>> > I have to disagree with you Ian. A provocative lyric that
>> includes > say the F word is merely reflecting the language used by a
>> section > of the community and it's occasional use can certainly have
>> impact. > If community radio is to genuinely reflect all sections of the > community there is a need for programming that to some would be > regarded as offensive. Racist or homophobic language is of course > not acceptable anywhere as it is illegal.
>> >
>> >
>> > To make the judgement you have about what is "conventional means" > when it comes to communication is perhaps not helpful as it
>> suggests > that so called respectable, white, middle class, daily mail > reader's are the arbiter of right and wrong. I would suggest this > is far from the truth. Just because someone chooses to
>> communicate > in different way to me does not make either of us conventional or > right or wrong. We all just use the language and means that we
>> find > comfortable and accessible to us.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Mark Harris
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > On 16 Aug 2009, at 07:58, Ian Hickling wrote:
>> >
>> >
>> > Whilst wholeheartedly agreeing with Richard's suggestions, I
>> have to > question the reasoning behind the need to play material which
>> has a > lyric which is intended to be provocative or offensive.
>> > What is the artist trying to achieve other than to offend?
>> > It's often defended by protagonists as portraying modern culture
>> - > but is this something that we as responsible broadcasters want to > highlight or promote?
>> > My own view is that an artist who feels the need to use an
>> offensive > lyric is merely betraying his own inadequacy for communicating > effectively by conventional means and as such is not worthy of > exposure on radio or anywhere else.
>> > Ian Hickling
>> > Partner
>> > transplan UK
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > From: richard.berry at sunderland.ac.uk
>> </mc/compose?to=richard.berry at sunderland.ac.uk>
>> > To: Stevensuttie at aol.com </mc/compose?to=Stevensuttie at aol.com>
>> > Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 12:40:56 +0100
>> > CC: cma-l at commedia.org.uk </mc/compose?to=cma-l at commedia.org.uk>
>> > Subject: Re: [cma-l] Hip Hop - offensive lyrics?
>> >
>> > ofcom are right to advise you as they have done, a 'health
>> warning' > would merely be a mitigating factor if a complaint was made. The > first thing you can do is to take care when scheduling the > programme. For example, if you put it after the big band show
>> then > 67 year old Agnes is likely to hear it and be offended, whereas > putting it after the rock show at 10pm you'd be less likely to
>> find > people offended by the content - especially given the content of > some rock songs!! Don't rule out recording the show and playing
>> out > in the wee small hours if you have the kit to do it.
>> >
>> >
>> > You could try and make some edits yourself or talking to the
>> labels > to see if they can send you the clean versions. Some will, some > won't. If you have legal copies of the rude versions then a
>> digital > copy via email will do just fine for broadcast. You may also want > him to record the show so you can clear it before it goes out.
>> The > more you can the more you can show you've been in control of the > content. If someone complains and you've not taken any steps to > ensure compliance then they will kick you more for that than any > actual breach of the rules!
>> >
>> >
>> > Regards
>> > Rich
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Richard Berry
>> > Senior Lecturer in Radio Studies
>> > Admissions Tutor
>> > Programme Leader: FdA Community Radio & BA Radio
>> > The David Puttnam Media Centre, St Peters Campus
>> > Sunderland, SR6 0DD
>> > Tel: 0191 515 2239
>> > Skype, Facebook & Twitter: richardberryuk
>> > Web: www.sunderland.ac.uk/radio
>> > Tags: www.delicious.com/richardberry
>> > Blog:myblogs.sunderland.ac.uk/blogs/radio/
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > On 12 Aug 2009, at 14:11, Stevensuttie at aol.com
>> </mc/compose?to=Stevensuttie at aol.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >
>> > Dear CMA colleagues,
>> >
>> > I have a very enthusiastic young chap who wishes to do a Hip Hop > show. I have zero knowledge of this particular genre, other than
>> the > music often talks about rascist, violent and sexual matters.
>> >
>> > Unfortunately, this volunteer cannot get hold of radio edits for
>> all > songs, so occasionally, lyrics that may cause offence may be > broadcast. I called OFCOM this morning to ask if this was > acceptable, if we put out disclaimers along the lines of
>> "Warning: > The following music contains lyrics that may cause offence - if
>> you > are easily offended this programme isn't for you." The answer was > unclear from OFCOM - but put bluntly - that disclaimer would not > serve as a protection should a listener complain.
>> >
>> > So I wondered what everybody else does? Any help or guidance on
>> this > matter will be gratefully received.
>> >
>> > Thanks in advance
>> >
>> > Kindest Regards
>> > Steve Suttie
>> > Station Manager, 94.4FM Salford City Radio
>> > office 0161 793 2939
>> > mobile 07772 355 852
>> > WINNERS - Community Award - Salford Business Awards 2009
>> > Visit our Website >
>> www.salfordcityradio.org_______________________________________________
>> >
>> > cma-l mailing list - cma-l at commedia.org.uk
>> </mc/compose?to=cma-l at commedia.org.uk>
>> >
>> > Community Media Association - www.commedia.org.uk
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>>
>>
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>
> --Karl Hartland
> 209radio Station Manager
>
> 105 FM in the Cambridge City Area
> http://209radio.co.uk everywhere else!
>
> Citylife House
> Sturton Street
> Cambridge
> CB1 2QF
>
> 01223 488418
> 07968 898254
>
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